A Philisophical Duscussion about the QB Position | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

A Philisophical Duscussion about the QB Position

JTech194

JTech194

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I read an article on B\R about teams that have payed QB's elite money but those QB's aren't elite and those teams are now in tough positions from a cap\team building standpoint. Since we Will be in a position to make such a decision with our QB in the near future I thought it would make since to have a discussion about it here.

And before the Tannehill supporters or detractors take this the wrong way let me say this now... this isn't specifically about Tannehill so let's not get into if he's worth the contract or not... don't want the post derailed.

The question is simply this.. can a team pay a QB upwards of 20 million per year, and that QB does not give you elite level play, AND still have the funds and cap space to build a team that can win a Super Bowl? Let's say the QB gives you good QB play not GREAT but good. Will the front office have enough money to build championship level offense, defense and special teams units?

Can you think of any other teams in the past several years that have been able to do so? The Giants come to mind, Ravens with Flacco... are there others? I know Peyton didn't play great last year in Denver but I think there are other factors that go into being a great QB other than simply throwing the ball so I would still put him in the elite category.

If it is doable, how would it have to be accomplished? For one you'd have to surely be very good at drafting and getting elite players at other positions on the cheap... maybe a little Luck in free agency? What do you guys think?

Looking at the current makeup of this team and what we need, How can we pay Tannehill 20 million a year and still build a Super Bowl caliber team? (Assuming he doesn't develop into an elite QB which is still a possibility)

you're the GM, how would you approach it. What position would you spend money on in ***ency, what position would you look to the draft etc...

and here's the article in case anyone is interested http://teamstre.am/2fYVKxe
 
Looking at recent history, SB winners are either Elite QB's or QB's on the cheap. No real middle ground.
 
The most important part you need to ask yourself, how important a piece is this QB to what we want to do? Considering how important the QB position is, and how hard it is to get a good one, I believe the QB does not have to be elite, just needs to show some kind of elite trait somewhere, that is very beneficial to your team at some point(s) in a season.

As you mentioned on top, Eli Manning and Flacco, are two QBs that come to mind, neither can be considered a 1st tier Elite QB, but what they do better then most is, when post season begins, they play some of the best football of any QB in post-season.

It is still be seen as far as Tannehill if he is worth that type of money, but nobody can disagree in this 4 game winning streak, Tannehill has proven to be a big part of the success of this team, and if it continues, I believe he deserves the money.
 
Clearly you can win a super bowl with sub-par QB play. We've seen quite a few 'elite' QBs struggle throughout the playoffs and into the super bowl and still come away with the trophy.

But I think in general its a bad idea to pay that kind of money to any player that isn't one of the best at an impactful position. The fact that Von Miller and Olivier Vernon cash similar paychecks is just absurd. Given that we've seen so many QBs come into the league recently and immediately play at least as well as the 30th/40th percentile of the league I don't see why you would pay a player performing at that level 20 mil a year.
 
For what it's worth, Manning was definitely not elite last year, and Osweiler played half the season. Osweiler was not elite by any stretch of the imagination. Not a Broncos fan, but I'm in Denver, catch a lot of the games and chatter...

As to the GM principle, I'd look to infuse the d with young talent in the draft this year, pay my core of guys that I feel are key to long term success and sign FAs for depth on oline (probably a starting caliber guard) and stop gaps on D where I can't get the young talent that is plug and play. I'd try to find a dual threat TE (block and receiving with seam threatening speed)

More than anything I'd listen to Gase and VJ to understand where they need talent to emphasize strengths and where they can cover gaps with scheme and make moves accordingly.

And yes, I would keep Tannehill on his current contract. It's not debilitating by any means, and he has shown consistently that he can do his part to get Ws. Sometimes more than his part...
 
If you pay any player elite Money but don't get elite performance then it's gonna be hard to be successful. That only gets magnified with the qb position.

Though Eli and Flaccid aren't day in and out elite qb's I would argue that during their super bowl runs they did play at an elite level in the playoffs.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
I think it gets tough paying elite QB money and paying elite Suh money. That's a lot of $$ in two people.
Now anything can happen- a team gets hot, its main competitor gets a major injury; think about the league right now, what teams are Super Bowl class? Dallas, Seattle, New England, and...and... we can debate the others. That's three teams. In this league, build it the best you can try to stay healthy and let the games play themselves out. But in a league where all the teams are so even/mediocre, getting quality QB play is vital. It's usually the difference; USUALLY, but not always, if you have something else elite- like an elite(Baltimore-ish) defense, or an unstoppable running game.
 
I'm not really sure this is even about the QB position.

It all comes down to capology. Being able to structure contracts to fit under the cap any given year and maintain a super bowl caliber team.
 
How much pounding can your QB take behind a bunch of 3rd string O-line men?
How many points do you expect to score with 2nd and 3rd string weapons starting?

Can your shutdown CB eliminate half the field?
Is he worth top 3 pay at his position?


It is clear something has to be elite to win a SB.
How much and who you invest in is what determines your success and failures.
 
Looking at this team I think we need

At least one more high level CB and Maybe 2. Vance has been great lately masking the deficiencies in overall talent with scheme and pressure but in the playoffs... against better teams and coaches.. i'm not sure this would be sustainable.

We need two more good lineman. We've been good the last few games with a healthy line, but this line will NOT stay healthy all year and I'm not sure we have the depth to overcome a major loss. We'll see how they play these next 2-3 games without Albert

We're need another WR in my opinion. If Landry goes down.. We're in trouble. I haven't seen the consistency in Parker to trust him yet and Still is ok but not a player a team is game planning around.

Our outside LB's are not very good. I think they are good backups but we need two front line OLB's if we want to start competing for SB's

We won't be able to pay a Tannehill and Sue those Major deals AND address all of the aforementioned issues is ***ency.

Which means... We'll either have to Trade from a position of strength to bolster those other positions (not sure where our position of strength is though) or Draft VERY WELL and find starting quality LB's, CB's and Olineman.

It won't be easy, but with a smart coaching staff and Front office, I guess it's possible.
 
Bottom Line: if Tannehill continues to perform at even 75% of last Sunday, this "middle ground QB" convo is moot. But either way, considering that a decent to good QB doesn't grow on trees, if it came to cap space, Suh would have to be moved.
 
With the cap space going up consecutive years I don't think it's as big a deal as it once may of been.
 
Vaark said:
Bottom Line: if Tannehill continues to perform at even 75% of last Sunday, this "middle ground QB" convo is moot. But either way, considering that a decent to good QB doesn't grow on trees, if it came to cap space, Suh would have to be moved.
Click to expand...

I really hope he does. But your comment made me think of another question..

What would you rather overpay for (Assuming you were going to overpay for something..)

Would you rather spend 20 mil per yer on an above average QB OR an ELITE DT?

For me.. Considering how important the QB position is and how bad your team can be with a bad one.... I'd rather overspend for the QB over the DT because i just don't think one DT has that much affect on the game overall to warrant that type of contract.
 
Where to put the money is an interesting topic and teams have approached this differently.

Obviously teams with consistently elite quarterback play are almost always going to have a chance. I think those elite guys number maybe 5-7 league wide. There are quarterbacks that may have an elite season here or there, but very few that approach that every season. Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers, Drew Brees and Big Ben are the most consistently elite.

Anyway, Denver is a team winning in another fashion with a strong defense and decent quarterback play at best. They look vulnerable to me, but they keep finding ways to win.

As far as Ryan Tannehill goes, I really think Denver wins it all last year with him at quarterback.
 
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