A shocking statistic concerning prospective Quarterbacks

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I was thinking even a little bigger than that Slimm. I was thinking it is almost a curse to win the Heisman and then go on to win the Super Bowl. 76 winners is there? and I think only 7 have won the Super Bowl.

Besides the stat inflation which I agree 100% on with you, the players also go to bad teams devoid of talent. The NFL isn't like a college program where 2 or 3 good recruiting classes can setup 3 to 5 good runs at championships. You draft a Heisman candidate and you instantly expect your team to be a better team but with the money you wrap up in a Heisman winner it takes money away to address your lack of roster talent.

The teams who have a roster ready for an NFL run usually draft last and even if they had chance at a Heisman winner, why would you need one honestly, chances are if you are drafting from 25 back you have a star QB, RB and WR.

I guess the direction that NFL passing rules are going it is inevitable that someone like RGIII or Newton is going to finally win the big one sooner rather than later.

The difference with Cam Newton is that he accomplished winning a Heisman by dominating SEC competition. I don't think that aspect is inconsequential to the success that he was able to experience as a rookie.


Poor Tim Tebow might be the worst passer drafted in the first 2 rounds out of the SEC since Quincy Carter.... even Tebow is able to win games in the NFL and take over physically at times.

I'll never subscribe to the hype of Big-12 quarterbacks.

 

[ChrisHanson]

Only one black Quarterback has ever won the Super Bowl. A QB can't be good if he's black.

Say those two sentences outloud. Sounds dumb, huh?

Well, the fact that only one black QB has won the Super Bowl doesn't mean that a black guy can't be a great QB. There are MANY reasons as to why more black quarterbacks haven't won another Super Bowl since Doug Williams and being black isn't one of them.

The same thing applies to Big-12 QB's. Again, basing your player evaluations soley on conference is lazy and dumb. There are many reasons as to why no Big-12 QB has won a Super Bowl, the conference they play in may be a slight factor, but it's not enough to sway opinions of most intelligent people. Brains, athletic abillity, arm, vision, character, temperament, work ethic, drive, and a slew of other things trump conference by a huge margin.

 

[tylerdolphin]

Only one black Quarterback has ever won the Super Bowl. A QB can't be good if he's black.

Say those two sentences outloud. Sounds dumb, huh?

Well, the fact that only one black QB has won the Super Bowl doesn't mean that a black guy can't be a great QB. There are MANY reasons as to why more black quarterbacks haven't won another Super Bowl since Doug Williams and being black isn't one of them.

The same thing applies to Big-12 QB's. Again, basing your player evaluations soley on conference is lazy and dumb. There are many reasons as to why no Big-12 QB has won a Super Bowl, the conference they play in may be a slight factor, but it's not enough to sway opinions of most intelligent people. Brains, athletic abillity, arm, vision, character, temperament, work ethic, drive, and a slew of other things trump conference by a huge margin.

The point isnt that the Big-12 has some magical curse that keeps QBs out the SB (and the NFL for that matter, not sure why youre talking SBs when they can hardly produce a legitimate QB period). The point is that the Big-12 fails at teaching QBs the skills they will need to succeed at QB in the NFL. Im not even sure how thats debateable really. A big conference producing no NFL QBs despite a **** ton of QBs putting up Heisman caliber numbers? Somethings wrong there. Its not a coincidence.

Im not saying RG3 or a Big-12 QB cant be good, but the deck is certainly stacked against them and the conference is a major red flag.

 

[ChrisHanson]

The point isnt that the Big-12 has some magical curse that keeps QBs out the SB (and the NFL for that matter, not sure why youre talking SBs when they can hardly produce a legitimate QB period). The point is that the Big-12 fails at teaching QBs the skills they will need to succeed at QB in the NFL. Im not even sure how thats debateable really. A big conference producing no NFL QBs despite a **** ton of QBs putting up Heisman caliber numbers? Somethings wrong there. Its not a coincidence.

Im not saying RG3 or a Big-12 QB cant be good, but the deck is certainly stacked against them and the conference is a major red flag.

I'm talking Super Bowls because the OP used Super Bowls as his measuring stick in the very first post in this thread. Also, the Big-12 has produced many NFL QB's taht are currently playing so I don't know what you're talking about when you say they are kept out of the NFL.

So your opinion is that the Big-12 doesn't teach QB's? Really? lol...

The Big-12 has recently evolved from a run oriented conference to a pass oriented conference. The current Big-12 QB's (in the relatively new pass oriented Big-12) mentioned in this thread are relatively green. I've shown where over the last 6 seasons, looking at only QB's drafted in those seasons, those Big-12 QB's compare nicely with all the other conference's QB's. On top of that, look at the TEAMS these QB's were drafted to. Rams, Buccaneers, Browns...

To put a little more perspective on this...out of the QB's drafted in these last 6 seasons, Jay Cutler, who was the top QB, was traded. The point being, QB's aren't made overnight. Not too many QB's can come into this league and turn a bottom dweller into a contender overnight. In fact, I think Peyton Manning is the last QB to do such a thing over 14 years ago.

 

[tylerdolphin]

I'm talking Super Bowls because the OP used Super Bowls as his measuring stick in the very first post in this thread. Also, the Big-12 has produced many NFL QB's taht are currently playing so I don't know what you're talking about when you say they are kept out of the NFL.

So your opinion is that the Big-12 doesn't teach QB's? Really? lol...

Doesnt teach them how to be an NFL QB in a legit offense against good defenses.

The Big-12 has recently evolved from a run oriented conference to a pass oriented conference. The current Big-12 QB's (in the relatively new pass oriented Big-12) mentioned in this thread are relatively green. I've shown where over the last 6 seasons, looking at only QB's drafted in those seasons, those Big-12 QB's compare nicely with all the other conference's QB's. On top of that, look at the TEAMS these QB's were drafted to. Rams, Buccaneers, Browns...

Most highly touted QBs go to bad teams...the ones that panned out no longer play for bad teams because teams with good QBs arent bad. The only Decent Big 12 QBs now are Seneca Wallace, Sam Bradford and Josh Freeman. Only two of those have a porayer of being long term starters and neither of those two are sure things after last year. Gonna need to know who the other great Big-12 QBs are...Im drawing a blank.

To put a little more perspective on this...out of the QB's drafted in these last 6 seasons, Jay Cutler, who was the top QB, was traded. The point being, QB's aren't made overnight. Not too many QB's can come into this league and turn a bottom dweller into a contender overnight. In fact, I think Peyton Manning is the last QB to do such a thing over 14 years ago.

Im not sure what youre saying here. Jay Cutler is not the top QB of the last 6 years. And QBs regularly come in and have success these days. Cam Newton made the Panthers a legitimate competitive team. Matt Ryan got the Falcons from the cellar to the playoffs. Matt Stafford had success quickly and has helped transform the Lions. A legitimate QB can do wonders for a franchise.

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[NY8123]

The difference with Cam Newton is that he accomplished winning a Heisman by dominating SEC competition. I don't think that aspect is inconsequential to the success that he was able to experience as a rookie.


Poor Tim Tebow might be the worst passer drafted in the first 2 rounds out of the SEC since Quincy Carter.... even Tebow is able to win games in the NFL and take over physically at times.

I'll never subscribe to the hype of Big-12 quarterbacks.

That's good point how many yards do you think Teblow would have put up in the Big-12? lol.

 

[russianbear]

Bottom line is that even though the Big - 12 is certainly a division lacking strong defense, it does not mean NFL caliber QBs can't come from it. You can bundle up QBs and seperate em any way you like, creating statistics that may seem to prove something. At the end of the day, every QB is unique and that's why the prospect process is never a sure thing and always a LOT more speculation and IMO coaching than anything having to do with these correlation statistics. So what if a QB played against worse defenses? Yea it may pad his statistics but it doesn't take away from the throws he made, I really think you have to look at a QBs style, and composure in his decision making. Although I personally do not see RG3 as anything close to a sure thing in the NFL, I guarantee he will make a splash and if coached well, can certainly lead a team to a possible SB in the future. Counting him out because he's from the Big-12? That, as someone said earlier is lazy, and definitely doesn't do justice for his skill set.

 

[RockyMtnPhinfan]

Bills suck - they should just move to Rogers Centre and get some real fans.

 

[tylerdolphin]

Bottom line is that even though the Big - 12 is certainly a division lacking strong defense, it does not mean NFL caliber QBs can't come from it. You can bundle up QBs and seperate em any way you like, creating statistics that may seem to prove something. At the end of the day, every QB is unique and that's why the prospect process is never a sure thing and always a LOT more speculation and IMO coaching than anything having to do with these correlation statistics. So what if a QB played against worse defenses? Yea it may pad his statistics but it doesn't take away from the throws he made, I really think you have to look at a QBs style, and composure in his decision making. Although I personally do not see RG3 as anything close to a sure thing in the NFL, I guarantee he will make a splash and if coached well, can certainly lead a team to a possible SB in the future. Counting him out because he's from the Big-12? That, as someone said earlier is lazy, and definitely doesn't do justice for his skill set.

You guys are really missing the point. I totally agree that you should look at decision making and whatnot, but what everyone in here is saying is that the Big-12 is not conducive to learning how to do those things. Big-12 QBs tend to rely heavily on screens and easy throws. These throws are often quick. The QB doesnt really learn decision making...he isnt under pressure and making quick decisions much. The QB generally doesnt make many NFL litmus test throws in any given game. Those skills arent really honed. Maybe RG3 is different. I cant honestly say I have watched him play. Im just saying that being from the Big-12 absolutely is a red flag for the exact reasons you stated...you want to see those skills and the Big-12 being what it is, QBs have a serious adjustment period/wake up call when they hit the NFL and play legitimate defenses. However you slice it, playing terrible pass defenses and running gimmick offenses does not prepare a QB well for the NFL.

 

[ChrisHanson]

Big-12 QBs tend to rely heavily on screens and easy throws. These throws are often quick. The QB doesnt really learn decision making...he isnt under pressure and making quick decisions much. The QB generally doesnt make many NFL litmus test throws in any given game. Those skills arent really honed. Maybe RG3 is different. I cant honestly say I have watched him play. Im just saying that being from the Big-12 absolutely is a red flag for the exact reasons you stated...you want to see those skills and the Big-12 being what it is, QBs have a serious adjustment period/wake up call when they hit the NFL and play legitimate defenses. However you slice it, playing terrible pass defenses and running gimmick offenses does not prepare a QB well for the NFL.

So he makes quick throws but doesn't make quick decisions? That makes no sense.

Also, have you ever heard of the West Coast Offense. Have you watched a Patriots game over the last couple of seasons? Look at the bolded and underlined portion of your post.... So I gues Montana and Brady suck(ed), huh? lol

 

[tylerdolphin]

So he makes quick throws but doesn't make quick decisions? That makes no sense.

Also, have you ever heard of the West Coast Offense. Have you watched a Patriots game over the last couple of seasons? Look at the bolded and underlined portion of your post.... So I gues Montana and Brady suck(ed), huh? lol

A screen isnt a decision...its a play call.

And a mostly short passing game is fine as long as the QB is playing against defenses that actually try. If any Tom, Dick and Harry in that conference is completing 65-70% of their passes and throwing for a **** ton of yards, you know somethings ****ed up there. Thats not preparing anyone for the speed of the NFL. Its impossible to just dismiss the fact that the Big-12 blows at producing QBs as nothing.