A ZBS Questions?

[So Be]

As we all know only too well, our OL is a mess but, this is a league wide problem for the most par, especially on the run. I believe that over half the teams have gone to a ZBS as their base, which is a lot more than a few years ago.

I don't think a lot of College teams are going with a ZBS but, defer to others who know more than me on this. Is this the problem with payers taking time to adapt? Is it the complicated schemes on D with many different blitz packages? Something else?

 

[foozool13]

I don't know about all the other teams in the league, but we dont have the athleticism for a ZBS. Other than Pouncey, none of our players are a great fit for it. Our OGs cant pull worth a damn, which is why you see Pouncey leading our runs outside. Our OTs are both old and slow footed. It is also another reason why we cant run a screen play worth a damn.

 

[So Be]

I don't know about all the other teams in the league, but we dont have the athleticism for a ZBS. Other than Pouncey, none of our players are a great fit for it. Our OGs cant pull worth a damn, which is why you see Pouncey leading our runs outside. Our OTs are both old and slow footed. It is also another reason why we cant run a screen play worth a damn.

Brenner shows some promise, and Clabo is VG in getting out on screens. Other than that, nothing and not may options in FA.

 

[Mudder1310]

Zone blocking is just a name. Every team uses it at some point depending on what the play call is and what the defensive front looks like. What your playbook looks like will effect whether you need guys who can move, pull, trap, or maul. I mean, McKinnie isn't your traditional ZBS tackle but he played fine. One nice thing is that many more O linemen are coming out of college being faster and more mobile while getting bigger, just like the D.

 

[So Be]

Zone blocking is just a name. Every team uses it at some point depending on what the play call is and what the defensive front looks like. What your playbook looks like will effect whether you need guys who can move, pull, trap, or maul. I mean, McKinnie isn't your traditional ZBS tackle but he played fine. One nice thing is that many more O linemen are coming out of college being faster and more mobile while getting bigger, just like the D.

Completely disagree on McKennie but, "telephone booth" blocker Cog played well. OL coming out may be faster and bigger but, many don't seem to have a clue as to how to block in today's NFL, and need time to develop.

 

[ChambersWI]

As we all know only too well, our OL is a mess but, this is a league wide problem for the most par, especially on the run. I believe that over half the teams have gone to a ZBS as their base, which is a lot more than a few years ago.

I don't think a lot of College teams are going with a ZBS but, defer to others who know more than me on this. Is this the problem with payers taking time to adapt? Is it the complicated schemes on D with many different blitz packages? Something else?

A lot of colleges run versions of zone blocking, the issue is that we were built with a bunch of OL who are more grinders... especially at guard. Brenner showed some promise but he wasn't ready this year. Richie can't pull nor can Jerry.

 

[Mudder1310]

Completely disagree on McKennie but, "telephone booth" blocker Cog played well. OL coming out may be faster and bigger but, many don't seem to have a clue as to how to block in today's NFL, and need time to develop.

True enough. There are only a few O linemen coming out with a good skill set that can really control their defender each year. It doesn't stop teams from throwing guys like Kyle Long or Terron Armstead out there when they are physical specimens.

 

[So Be]

True enough. There are only a few O linemen coming out with a good skill set that can really control their defender each year. It doesn't stop teams from throwing guys like Kyle Long or Terron Armstead out there when they are physical specimens.

I'm far from an expert on this but, do recall the Big Ten as being a OL factory. No more, the big guys nailing defenders one on one is no longer the case. Ya gotta move, and the footwork really sucks for most.

I look at the top OL picks the last few years, and they were no where near as ready to play as past years.

 

[Mudder1310]

I'm far from an expert on this but, do recall the Big Ten as being a OL factory. No more, the big guys nailing defenders one on one is no longer the case. Ya gotta move, and the footwork really sucks for most.

I look at the top OL picks the last few years, and they were no where near as ready to play as past years.

I think more and more they come out early when they could really use that extra year of skills improvement. It's hard to pass on a guy who has all the physical tools and hope to coach him up.

 

[So Be]

I think more and more they come out early when they could really use that extra year of skills improvement. It's hard to pass on a guy who has all the physical tools and hope to coach him up.

True but, he's not gonna give what you would expect in past years. and there is no patience in today's game.

 

[doughbraz54]

I agree that zbs scheme is also just a name and all teams run it...BUT to primarily run it without the proper pieces can doom a team. With a zbs you are basically telling your running back to look for the open hole and go. Which can be very problematic if you don't have a good enough rb.

 

[Kdawg954]

I agree that zbs scheme is also just a name and all teams run it...BUT to primarily run it without the proper pieces can doom a team. With a zbs you are basically telling your running back to look for the open hole and go. Which can be very problematic if you don't have a good enough rb.

The ZBS is designed for a particular type of RB. A one cut runner. Essentially if a guy has the ability to find a hole and go . . . he would fit the ZBS rather well. It's the reason why Denver produced so many 1000 yard runners in the 90's and early 2000's under Mike Shanahan. It's the reason why Gary Kubiak can throw guys like Arian Foster and Ben Tate into that system and turn them into gold.

Daniel Thomas, in a sense, fits this scheme very well. Even Lamar Miller fits this type of scheme. Reggie Bush did not, but he is a much more talented runner than the former 2, so he made the best out of the situation.

When you have these one cut runners, and you are running the ZBS, you need the proper lineman, especially inside, to be able to have success running the ball. We just don't have that and it's not a good fit for our backs.

It's less about how talented our linemen are and more about the type of linemen we have. I think John Jerry has the potential to be a real solid guard in a more power based system, but in the ZBS he will continue to be underwhelming. Ritchie Incognito is an absolute joke in a ZBS, but he makes up for it with toughness. Mckinnie/Clabo both fit better in more power based systems. Pouncey is the only guy who fits well, even though I think he could be elite as a move guard.

So when you have an oline designed for the ZBS but fit a power scheme it = a lack of success running the ball and that turns Miami into a one dimensional offense and teams can focus on teeing off on Ryan Tannehill. In turn, Ryan Tannehill turned from a QB who excelled against pressure/blitz to a QB who became overwhelmed by it because he almost expected it on every passing play. In a sense, there was a stretch where he completely lost his confidence because he had no faith in his offensive line. Take away he lost his outlet guy in Brandon Gibson and he can't connect with Wallace to save his life . . . it equals the performances we saw against Buffalo and the Jets to end the season.

WE ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO ADDRESS THE OLINE THIS OFFSEASON. I'm starting to lean at going after Brandon Albert . . . you have your hopeful franchise QB in Tannehill . . . get him a guy that fits the scheme but can also protect his blindside. A guy who can get out there and block in the running game. You have a big chunk of rollover money . . . . franchise Grimes and sign Albert as your LT. Round 1 get a big target at WR/TE for Tannehill to throw into the mix of Wallace/Hartline/Gibson/Clay. I'd personally go OLine every other round. So Round 2 OL / Round 3 RB (one that can break a tackle) / Round 4 OL / Round 5 DB/DT/LB / Round 6 OL / Round 7 BPA .

You get rid of Martin/Incognito/Jerry/Clabo/McKinnie, obviously keep Pouncey and add Albert, 3 draft picks, a UDFA or 2, and hope for the development of Brenner, Yeatman, Samuda and Thomas, plus the versatility of Garner still in the mix . . . or worse comes to worse you can resign Clabo to play RT or another vet. Most important are those interior positions though. They have to get better. We play in a division where the DT's are beastly . . . we have to be strong up front or we'll never win this division.

 

[So Be]

The ZBS is designed for a particular type of RB. A one cut runner. Essentially if a guy has the ability to find a hole and go . . . he would fit the ZBS rather well. It's the reason why Denver produced so many 1000 yard runners in the 90's and early 2000's under Mike Shanahan. It's the reason why Gary Kubiak can throw guys like Arian Foster and Ben Tate into that system and turn them into gold.

Daniel Thomas, in a sense, fits this scheme very well. Even Lamar Miller fits this type of scheme. Reggie Bush did not, but he is a much more talented runner than the former 2, so he made the best out of the situation.

When you have these one cut runners, and you are running the ZBS, you need the proper lineman, especially inside, to be able to have success running the ball. We just don't have that and it's not a good fit for our backs.

It's less about how talented our linemen are and more about the type of linemen we have. I think John Jerry has the potential to be a real solid guard in a more power based system, but in the ZBS he will continue to be underwhelming. Ritchie Incognito is an absolute joke in a ZBS, but he makes up for it with toughness. Mckinnie/Clabo both fit better in more power based systems. Pouncey is the only guy who fits well, even though I think he could be elite as a move guard.

So when you have an oline designed for the ZBS but fit a power scheme it = a lack of success running the ball and that turns Miami into a one dimensional offense and teams can focus on teeing off on Ryan Tannehill. In turn, Ryan Tannehill turned from a QB who excelled against pressure/blitz to a QB who became overwhelmed by it because he almost expected it on every passing play. In a sense, there was a stretch where he completely lost his confidence because he had no faith in his offensive line. Take away he lost his outlet guy in Brandon Gibson and he can't connect with Wallace to save his life . . . it equals the performances we saw against Buffalo and the Jets to end the season.

WE ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO ADDRESS THE OLINE THIS OFFSEASON. I'm starting to lean at going after Brandon Albert . . . you have your hopeful franchise QB in Tannehill . . . get him a guy that fits the scheme but can also protect his blindside. A guy who can get out there and block in the running game. You have a big chunk of rollover money . . . . franchise Grimes and sign Albert as your LT. Round 1 get a big target at WR/TE for Tannehill to throw into the mix of Wallace/Hartline/Gibson/Clay. I'd personally go OLine every other round. So Round 2 OL / Round 3 RB (one that can break a tackle) / Round 4 OL / Round 5 DB/DT/LB / Round 6 OL / Round 7 BPA .

You get rid of Martin/Incognito/Jerry/Clabo/McKinnie, obviously keep Pouncey and add Albert, 3 draft picks, a UDFA or 2, and hope for the development of Brenner, Yeatman, Samuda and Thomas, plus the versatility of Garner still in the mix . . . or worse comes to worse you can resign Clabo to play RT or another vet. Most important are those interior positions though. They have to get better. We play in a division where the DT's are beastly . . . we have to be strong up front or we'll never win this division.

Great read Kdawg, thanks. I prefer Collins over Albert. Although more of a risk in not playing a lot, he is about the same on the run, a touch behind in pass block, he is better on screens, can play RT, and had only one penalty to Albert's 9 (among the worst on the OL).

I'm hoping to get Schwartz or Asamoah at RG from KC. Schwartz is a lot like Collins in not having a big body of work but, played very well pass and run. I'll be happy with either at RG.

I'm with ya on Pouncey being an elite LG. I believe Mack is a pipe dream but, Brenner can play C IF he takes a big step up in the off season. Another very intriguing option is Evan Dietrich-Smith from GB. He is 28, a perfect fit, VG in pass block and screen, and good on the run. He's in the same range as Mack and Pouncey, a top 10 C.

So, for my fantasy OL. I'm paying Collins, a KC RG, and Dietrich-Smith an average of around #15M, moving Pouncey, drafting on OT in the first, and I'm re-signing Clabo for a year at around $2-3M.

IF this happens, no need to use more than the one pick on an OT, and it could be a 2nd to sit a year behind Clabo if need be. We still have Garner, Brenner, Dallas, maybe Samuda, Watkins, and a still intriguing Yeatman.