Abramson: Dolphins to seek "upgrade" to Miller, notes on Tannehill, Jordan, D. Thomas

[phins_4_ever]

It's the staff's fault that Miller had two breakaway touchdown runs and inexplicably cut back into a defender instead of running for the pylon? Really?

He even fumbled on one of those when literally all he had to do was run to the pylon. He cut directly back into like three guys. You going to blame Joe for that?

We can of course dissect every play and every player. But then we have to include Tannehill. By the time we are done you are probably ready to release Tannehill as well. Do you actually know how often Tannehill turned into a sack? Oh I forgot. It is never his fault.
Players make mistakes. You point out two plays by Miller I give you a dozen where he was doing good or great. We can do that all offseason long. But dissecting individual plays based on someone's opinion (make the selected facts fit the opinion) is as useful as Shouwrong/Gravity stats post. You look at a player overall (base your opinion on all facts) and it suddenly changes the perception.

 

[Rev Kev]

Miller has some good qualities, but is not a starter, if he can't handle the blitz and various assignments that appeared over his and DT's heads, but the Oline is by far the WORSE we have seen and we have seen some bad Olines

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

We can of course dissect every play and every player. But then we have to include Tannehill. By the time we are done you are probably ready to release Tannehill as well. Do you actually know how often Tannehill turned into a sack? Oh I forgot. It is never his fault.
Players make mistakes. You point out two plays by Miller I give you a dozen where he was doing good or great. We can do that all offseason long. But dissecting individual plays based on someone's opinion (make the selected facts fit the opinion) is as useful as Shouwrong/Gravity stats post. You look at a player overall (base your opinion on all facts) and it suddenly changes the perception.

Be my guest and dissect every Tannehill play, I'm not going to stop you or get upset if you do. In fact, I'd be interested in it, because it'd be a lot of work and probably really good stuff for the board. :up:

As for Miller, here's my question: what were all these good or great plays you mentioned? Because while I am in 100% agreement that the biggest problem our rushing game faced was awful blocking, I was just pointing out that it's not the coaches' fault that the two opportunities Miller had to break long TD runs, he flubbed them. And some people would have us believe that Joe Philbin is at fault for that somehow.

 

[So Be]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I think Ryan Tannehill and Lamar Miller would both be significantly more productive behind a credible offensive line. I don't think Miller is great, but he could certainly be more productive than he was this year, and that's mostly because our coaches didn't want to run the football and our offensive line was absolutely dreadful at run blocking. I'm not a fan of ground and pound, but you do need to have balance running the football. We were completely off-kilter and simply threw the ball too many times, particularly in the games when the run was actually working somewhat.

More than anything, the reason I want to replace Miller is that he doesn't have particularly good hands out of the backfield and he is not good at blitz pickups. I think Miller's good as a change of pace / second back.

As a receiver, Miller caught 26 of 30 passes thrown to him for 170 yds, with 1 drop. That's pretty good hands to me. Agree on the blocking but, it was something he never did at The U.

 

[hoops]

i dont think anyones here saying get rid of lamar miller right now...his game is more suited as a change of pace back in a 2 back system imo...there's nothing bell cow there and for a guy that weighs 218 his games more that of a 205 lb guy when it comes to contact...you dont want a back that constantly goes down at first contact as your lead one...

not to mention he's awful in pass pro...getting run over by blitzing slot corners etc is unacceptable...period

 

[Mudder1310]

Let's be plain. Unless you have a pro bowler at a position teams are always looking to upgrade. No one should be surprised that Miller isn't blowing skirts up, the line is terrible and the play calling abysmal. But dude hasn't demonstrated he's more than what he's produced either. If the line gets addressed and he blows up then great. Otherwise you have to try to make the team better. Who is the best player on the team, Cam Wake? If you could get Aldon Smith you'd trade Wake. That's how it goes.

 

[phishxhead]

i dont think anyones here saying get rid of lamar miller right now...his game is more suited as a change of pace back in a 2 back system imo...there's nothing bell cow there and for a guy that weighs 218 his games more that of a 205 lb guy when it comes to contact...you dont want a back that constantly goes down at first contact as your lead one...

not to mention he's awful in pass pro...getting run over by blitzing slot corners etc is unacceptable...period

100%. I've seen all I need to see from Miller to know that he is not a starting caliber back.

---------- Post added at 11:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 AM ----------

Who is the best player on the team?

Our Punter.

 

[So Be]

i dont think anyones here saying get rid of lamar miller right now...his game is more suited as a change of pace back in a 2 back system imo...there's nothing bell cow there and for a guy that weighs 218 his games more that of a 205 lb guy when it comes to contact...you dont want a back that constantly goes down at first contact as your lead one...

not to mention he's awful in pass pro...getting run over by blitzing slot corners etc is unacceptable...period

Blunt, Gore, and MJD were about the same n MT's, I can expand that if ya like. I have to give him this year.

On yards after contact, Miller averaged 2.1, tied with Bush and Bell from Pitt at #31. There was not much difference in most of the guys ahead of him. Charles from KC was at 2.2, and Lacy from GB was 2.3, which surprised me.

 

[Zounds]

Utilize his talents and hide his weaknesses. Get him in space. Jet sweep him. Work him on wheel routes and screens. Utilize him on draws.

I see a player with eleite speed that needs to be utilized better.

He was able to get in space, only to be blown over by a gust of wind. We did assign a few wheel route to him early in the season, except he couldn't catch the ball. And this guy absolutely does not have elite speed.

---------- Post added at 12:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 PM ----------

i dont think anyones here saying get rid of lamar miller right now...

I'll say it. Get rid of Lamar Miller now. Or at least make him the 3rd or 4th RB, or a ST player.

 

[phins_4_ever]

Be my guest and dissect every Tannehill play, I'm not going to stop you or get upset if you do. In fact, I'd be interested in it, because it'd be a lot of work and probably really good stuff for the board. :up:

As for Miller, here's my question: what were all these good or great plays you mentioned? Because while I am in 100% agreement that the biggest problem our rushing game faced was awful blocking, I was just pointing out that it's not the coaches' fault that the two opportunities Miller had to break long TD runs, he flubbed them. And some people would have us believe that Joe Philbin is at fault for that somehow.

You and I know we won't dissect every play. :brewskis:

But just of the top of my head: the 50 yard run against the Falcons...he had another 40 plus yard run against the Raven or Bengals. THere were a handful of great long runs this season. I also remember a few plays where we were in 3rd and short and he was getting stuffed and bounced to the outside and got us a first down. Plenty of plays.

Here is a stat for you:
I always contended that Thomas was preferred over Miller by Ireland and co regardless of production. It went into such an absurdity that a good running Miller was taking out and replaced by Thomas. I always got pissed that a lot of times Miller got us going just to have Thomas screw it up.

I looked at the situational stats and I found this:
Miller was mostly used in our half of the field. He had 127 attempts in our half. The closer we got to the endzone of the opponent the less carries he received. In the redzone he had a lousy 18 attempts. With Thomas it went the other way.

Miller had a raw deal here.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

You and I know we won't dissect every play. :brewskis:

But just of the top of my head: the 50 yard run against the Falcons...he had another 40 plus yard run against the Raven or Bengals. THere were a handful of great long runs this season. I also remember a few plays where we were in 3rd and short and he was getting stuffed and bounced to the outside and got us a first down. Plenty of plays.

Here is a stat for you:
I always contended that Thomas was preferred over Miller by Ireland and co regardless of production. It went into such an absurdity that a good running Miller was taking out and replaced by Thomas. I always got pissed that a lot of times Miller got us going just to have Thomas screw it up.

I looked at the situational stats and I found this:
Miller was mostly used in our half of the field. He had 127 attempts in our half. The closer we got to the endzone of the opponent the less carries he received. In the redzone he had a lousy 18 attempts. With Thomas it went the other way.

Miller had a raw deal here.

He fumbled on that long run against the Bengals, that's one of the ones I brought up.

But yes, I do agree with you that for the most part, he is getting a raw deal if people think he flat out sucks. He's not awful, but at the same time I don't think he will ever be a Pro Bowl caliber player for a variety of reasons. Still, if he were awful, he would not have averaged 4 yards per carry behind an offensive line that even South Beach agrees is the worst run blocking unit in the NFL.

 

[phins_4_ever]

i dont think anyones here saying get rid of lamar miller right now...his game is more suited as a change of pace back in a 2 back system imo...there's nothing bell cow there and for a guy that weighs 218 his games more that of a 205 lb guy when it comes to contact...you dont want a back that constantly goes down at first contact as your lead one...

not to mention he's awful in pass pro...getting run over by blitzing slot corners etc is unacceptable...period

I agree that pass protection is not his strength. BUT it is something which can be taught. As far as I know the Canes don't use their RBs as blockers very often. The RBs are part of the passing game as receivers most of the time. I don't think that our OL was properly coached anyways.

 

[hoops]

You and I know we won't dissect every play. :brewskis:

But just of the top of my head: the 50 yard run against the Falcons...he had another 40 plus yard run against the Raven or Bengals. THere were a handful of great long runs this season. I also remember a few plays where we were in 3rd and short and he was getting stuffed and bounced to the outside and got us a first down. Plenty of plays.

Here is a stat for you:
I always contended that Thomas was preferred over Miller by Ireland and co regardless of production. It went into such an absurdity that a good running Miller was taking out and replaced by Thomas. I always got pissed that a lot of times Miller got us going just to have Thomas screw it up.

I looked at the situational stats and I found this:
Miller was mostly used in our half of the field. He had 127 attempts in our half. The closer we got to the endzone of the opponent the less carries he received. In the redzone he had a lousy 18 attempts. With Thomas it went the other way.

Miller had a raw deal here.

and why do you think that is??? cause as the field condenses you have to run thru more contact in shorter areas...and miller outside of the finale didnt run thru contact worth a damn

 

[phins_4_ever]

He fumbled on that long run against the Bengals, that's one of the ones I brought up.

But yes, I do agree with you that for the most part, he is getting a raw deal if people think he flat out sucks. He's not awful, but at the same time I don't think he will ever be a Pro Bowl caliber player for a variety of reasons. Still, if he were awful, he would not have averaged 4 yards per carry behind an offensive line that even South Beach agrees is the worst run blocking unit in the NFL.

You are right with the long run.

With the rest I agree. I mentioned earlier that I have no clue if he ever will be an elite running back. But first we have to give him a chance.

 

[TheWalrus]

and why do you think that is??? cause as the field condenses you have to run thru more contact in shorter areas...and miller outside of the finale didnt run thru contact worth a damn

Neither does Daniel Thomas, to be fair. And outside of Clay we didn't have a red zone receiver, either. It's almost like the team was built to get to the 10 yard line and stop. Jeff was a collegiate field goal kicker, remember.