Abramson: Dolphins to seek "upgrade" to Miller, notes on Tannehill, Jordan, D. Thomas

[phins_4_ever]

FWIW, Miller caused 20 missed tackles on 177 rushes. DT had 21 MT's on 109 rushes.

To compare, Blount had 26 on 153 runs, MJD had 26 on 234, gore had 23 on 276. At the top, McCoy had 57 MT's on 314 carries.

That said, I remember complaining about this with Miller in the first half but, he did get better in the second half. I thought DT ran hard most of the year. I still want to bring in a vet, as I REALLY wanted Bradshaw, with others, last year. His blocking alone would have made a difference.

Well, based on that then Thomas is the best of them all.

You do have to be careful. If you have a running back running wild and for his life in the backfield and maybe causes 4 missed tackles but gets stopped behind the line of scrimmage he still lost yards. Or what if the other team just did poor tackling? Missed tackles is a dangerous stat. :brewskis:

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

Neither does Daniel Thomas, to be fair. And outside of Clay we didn't have a red zone receiver, either. It's almost like the team was built to get to the 10 yard line and stop. Jeff was a collegiate field goal kicker, remember.

Which is funny because our red zone efficiency was actually quite good -- our problem was an inability to move the ball down the field consistently.

 

[hoops]

Neither does Daniel Thomas, to be fair. And outside of Clay we didn't have a red zone receiver, either. It's almost like the team was built to get to the 10 yard line and stop. Jeff was a collegiate field goal kicker, remember.

crazy part was we were one of the most efficient red zone conversion teams in football...despite all that...mike sherman deserves a lot of blame for what happened play calling wise but his red zone and tight red zone work especially was pretty damn good this year...have to give him that

of course the qb gets no credit for it...

 

[So Be]

He fumbled on that long run against the Bengals, that's one of the ones I brought up.

But yes, I do agree with you that for the most part, he is getting a raw deal if people think he flat out sucks. He's not awful, but at the same time I don't think he will ever be a Pro Bowl caliber player for a variety of reasons. Still, if he were awful, he would not have averaged 4 yards per carry behind an offensive line that even South Beach agrees is the worst run blocking unit in the NFL.

Here's a SHOCKER for ya, which really surprised me. PFF has a pass blocking efficiency on RB's. There were 22 who were on the field on half of their teams snaps, and Miller is #7.

The basis on this is the number of pressure you gave up (heavy on sacks) compared to the number of times you were pass blocking. Miller pass blocked 127 times, and gave up 7 pressures. There were only 6 RB's who did better. The rest gave up more, and is a stat fact.

This does not mean that you or I, or anyne esle have to agree that he was good, just that compared to others in the NFL he was.

We all have a tendency to focus on highlights and lowlights without looking at the entire body of work from a player.

 

[hoops]

either that or we think pffs numbers at times are bs...i know which one it is for me when i see some of those...you can put your faith in those all you want but i'm not going to when i see something that doesn't add up

 

[So Be]

Well, based on that then Thomas is the best of them all.

You do have to be careful. If you have a running back running wild and for his life in the backfield and maybe causes 4 missed tackles but gets stopped behind the line of scrimmage he still lost yards. Or what if the other team just did poor tackling? Missed tackles is a dangerous stat. :brewskis:

Completely agree but, it was brought up here, and I have to defend My Canes. :) If it's brought up, you need to compare it to others, which I did.

 

[Zounds]

Miller pass blocked 127 times, and gave up 7 pressures.

How many times did Miller whiff on his assignment, or didnt block anyone, or had a delayed option route? PFF doesn't capture that stat, because they don't know what his blocking assignments are.

A more telling stat would be how many times he engaged a pass rusher, and how many of those battles he won.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

Here's a SHOCKER for ya, which really surprised me. PFF has a pass blocking efficiency on RB's. There were 22 who were on the field on half of their teams snaps, and Miller is #7.

The basis on this is the number of pressure you gave up (heavy on sacks) compared to the number of times you were pass blocking. Miller pass blocked 127 times, and gave up 7 pressures. There were only 6 RB's who did better. The rest gave up more, and is a stat fact.

This does not mean that you or I, or anyne esle have to agree that he was good, just that compared to others in the NFL he was.

We all have a tendency to focus on highlights and lowlights without looking at the entire body of work from a player.

I put no stock in PFF's player grades whatsoever, and I think I've mentioned that to you about 37 billion times.

Miller and Thomas were responsible for some ugly sacks. And unlike some posters, I like watching as much football as I can -- it's not as if I just watch the Dolphins. Lamar Miller is not a good pass blocker.

 

[So Be]

either that or we think pffs numbers at times are bs...i know which one it is for me when i see some of those...you can put your faith in those all you want but i'm not going to when i see something that doesn't add up

I think that almost anyone on this forum can watch games, and count up how many times a RB pass blocked, as well as how many times he gave up sacks or pressure on his QB. It's not "rocket surgery" and that is all that this shows.

Are you saying that there were more RB's who gave up less than 7 pressures on 50% snaps?

 

[hoops]

I think that almost anyone on this forum can watch games, and count up how many times a RB pass blocked, as well as how many times he gave up sacks or pressure on his QB. It's not "rocket surgery" and that is all that this shows.

Are you saying that there were more RB's who gave up less than 7 pressures on 50% snaps?

im just saying i dont always agree with that stuff as gospel...that's all...i know how much weight you give it...and to each his own...some of that stuff makes no sense to me...like lamar miller and say legarret blount with same contact #'s...i just dont see that when i watch em

again though to each his own

 

[Zounds]

I think that almost anyone on this forum can watch games, and count up how many times a RB pass blocked, as well as how many times he gave up sacks or pressure on his QB. It's not "rocket surgery" and that is all that this shows.

I think if you put 10 people in a room and asked them to watch tape and record "pressures", you would get 10 very different numbers. The "pressures" stat is very ambiguous.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

And for what it's worth, Daniel Thomas is worse than Lamar Miller at pass pro. Thomas was absolutely brutal.

Incidentally, it's by watching the sacks given up by the RBs that you can get the clearest example for why I think PFF's numbers are a joke. PFF says that Ryan Tannehill was only sacked a couple of times in less than 2.5 seconds (because they calculate sack time by when the whistle is blown) when if you just watch the sacks given up by the backs with the play synched on a timer from the snap, I think like 100% of them were in about 2 seconds flat.

So yes, I simply don't trust PFF's numbers. PFF has consistently said that Ryan Tannehill is a top ten NFL quarterback based on his grades. I like Ryan Tannehill more than most posters on this board and I think he's going to be pretty damn good. In fact, I actually think he's already a player who has helped this team overcome serious deficiencies to win more games than it should have. And even I think their grade of him is ridiculous.

Keep in mind that the guys working for PFF on game film aren't scouts. In fact, it's pretty well known that some of them were hired with no knowledge of the game of football whatsoever. It's a job, and their job is to churn out 200+ grades by Tuesday every week.

PFF does have some good stuff -- the things that are timed with a stopwatch that you don't get anywhere else -- but with ANY number you pull from them, you first have to ask how they get it.

 

[So Be]

I put no stock in PFF's player grades whatsoever, and I think I've mentioned that to you about 37 billion times.

Miller and Thomas were responsible for some ugly sacks. And unlike some posters, I like watching as much football as I can -- it's not as if I just watch the Dolphins. Lamar Miller is not a good pass blocker.

This is not a grade but, a stat fact.

 

[futurescout]

Lamar Miller is an above average #3 back on a playoff team.

 

[So Be]

im just saying i dont always agree with that stuff as gospel...that's all...i know how much weight you give it...and to each his own...some of that stuff makes no sense to me...like lamar miller and say legarret blount with same contact #'s...i just dont see that when i watch em

again though to each his own

It's NOT Gospel but, I don't see anything better out there. How many games/plays did you watch Blount on?