After all these additions is our line good enough? | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

After all these additions is our line good enough?

claytonduper said:
Can you explain why coach Benton is such a better coach? In today's game how many different methods are there to help teach a lineman the skills to pass and run block? (serious question, I just don't understand or appreciate how a position coach will have that much influence)
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Sometimes it's style in how the position coach deals with players, and it's also level of competition. Benton was a solid OL coach in college at a so-so school in Colorado State, got hired as an assistant OL coach with the Rams when they were one of the best offenses in the league, and then got his chance in Houston and was there for a decade (or close to it). I think part of Jim Turner's issue was that the jump from Texas A&M to the pros was too big for him. I also don't think Turner adjusted well from dealing with kids to dealing with professionals.

That's the best I can give you, but there are some systems that if you have a coach that understands the scheme completely will be able to get anybody to buy into the system.

Ad for the thread title UK, there will undoubtedly be some growing pains as you'll have 3 of the 5 starters being guys who have either never started NFL games (Turner,Thomas,James) or has very few starts to his name (Smith). I think in the long run the OL will get better as the year goes on though.

And not to trash last year's OL, but from listening to the 2 rookies talk, they seem to have a much different attitude from past players we've employed on the OL.
 
KTOWNFINFAN said:
Just curious, did you mean to say "this time last year", or did you mean after the OL meltdown and we lost the starting left side of the line?? Because at this time last year we had a probowl RT, and probowl caliber center, two very solid guards, and a LT who although was the biggest question mark, was quick on his feet, was being moved back to his college position, and had came on a little bit at the end of his last season.

While it was true that Martin had a lot of us very worried, it looked like 4 of the 5 positions were solid and we knew who our starters were going to be. This year we have two starters and 3 positions we hope to find a starter at. We have more depth this year, and we have a few pieces that we hope will work out but right now we have to know if we don't bring someone in, we are definitely going to be worse at OG. We don't have anyone on the roster as good as Richie and Jerry.

As for the OP question about LT, I think the easy solution there is to stop all this nonesense about Turner playing guard. Just because he had one bad practice vs higher level of talent at the senior bowl does not change the fact that he is a natural LT. Turner if moved to guard has a very average ceiling, but at LT he can become very good. His slide and foot quickness makes him a perfect fit at LT at the NFL level. Once he gets a year or so under his belt I think he can become a very good LT, and would be the best backup on the roster THIS year.

If you try and switch Turner to guard is there anyone who really thinks he can be useful THIS year?? If so show me another example. Show me a small school guy taken in the 3rd rd or later who came in and moved from Tackle to guard and started his first year. I don't know the answer to tha question, but I think you would have a hard time finding any.
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Jahri Evan was a 4th round pick from Bloomsburg University of Pennsylvania that move from LT to guard and is a pro bowl guard and one of the best in the NFL. He started his rookie year also. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahri_Evans
 
Nice analysis OP. Thanks.

I agree with your assessment, but am not quite as rosy about it. It seems like we went out and found guys thar either pass protect or run block ... but not both. That telegraphs plays.

Albert is a pass pro guy, and if we can only get one thing that is what I would want from a LT. But, Monroe and Veldheer do both ... and we're younger ... and had less injury issues (arguably). Albert already lived in Miami, and it appears we paid a premium over Monroe/Veldheer to get him. So, while I'm happy to have Albert, I can't help feeling like we missed a better deal.

I'm not a big JuWuan James fan. I don't see him as head and shoulders better than guys like Moses who went at the top of the 3rd round. His work ethic scares me and his technique is sloppy. I'm worried that he may be a rich man's version of John Jerry ... amazing measureables with flashes of dominance that never becomes a good player. Like Jerry, James is not a good run blocker. We clearly paid a premium for him too.

The OG's are a bit of a conundrum. Shelley is an excellent run blocker--by far the best on the team. But, he is an atrocious pass protector. Those saying it can't get any worse than last year may be interested to note that Shelley was significantly worse as. Pass protector than either of our starting OG's last year ... which is frightening.

Fox is a solid combo guy ... but he is always getting injured so isn't very dependable.

Turner shows potential to be a solid OG, but he is making a big step up and as you mentioned ... He is kinda raw. Coupled with moving inside to OG, I'd expect some growing pains.

All in all, we are improved, but it doesn't feel fixed yet to me.

Fingers crossed.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
 
J. David Wannyheimer said:
I think pass-blocking will decent.

I still question whether or not we can run block.
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You probably know more that I do, but I think the opposite because of the scheme and the athleticism of our OL. It might take a while for our OL to gel, but I think as the season progresses, we will be pleasantly surprised with the effectiveness of our running game.
 
To anyone who's watched Smith play at all (PFF doesn't count..) his flaws in protection are correctable and I think we have the right coach to get the most out of him. He's a quality athlete and if him and Turner can lockdown the guard spots we'd have our outside protectors with maulers on the inside which is exactly what I want in our OL. I think we're going to see Billy Turner start day 1 at LG and I also expect Smith to win the RG job, though I feel less strongly about that than Turner. Also the possibility we bring someone else in to compete. I think we see a Albert-Turner-Pouncey-Smith-James OL. I think we deal with some growing pains the first few weeks of the season but then we'll see them start to gel. I think we'll get solid pass protection and I think that portion will come along quicker than our run blocking.
 
FearTheBeard said:
To anyone who's watched Smith play at all (PFF doesn't count..) his flaws in protection are correctable and I think we have the right coach to get the most out of him. He's a quality athlete and if him and Turner can lockdown the guard spots we'd have our outside protectors with maulers on the inside which is exactly what I want in our OL. I think we're going to see Billy Turner start day 1 at LG and I also expect Smith to win the RG job, though I feel less strongly about that than Turner. Also the possibility we bring someone else in to compete. I think we see a Albert-Turner-Pouncey-Smith-James OL. I think we deal with some growing pains the first few weeks of the season but then we'll see them start to gel. I think we'll get solid pass protection and I think that portion will come along quicker than our run blocking.
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those guys will get every chance to win the starting spots. absolutely

---------- Post added at 11:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 PM ----------
ckparrothead said:
Pass pro is where I would be particularly concerned.
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not on the outside. inside yes
 
KTOWNFINFAN said:
Just curious, did you mean to say "this time last year", or did you mean after the OL meltdown and we lost the starting left side of the line?? Because at this time last year we had a probowl RT, and probowl caliber center, two very solid guards, and a LT who although was the biggest question mark, was quick on his feet, was being moved back to his college position, and had came on a little bit at the end of his last season.

While it was true that Martin had a lot of us very worried, it looked like 4 of the 5 positions were solid and we knew who our starters were going to be. This year we have two starters and 3 positions we hope to find a starter at. We have more depth this year, and we have a few pieces that we hope will work out but right now we have to know if we don't bring someone in, we are definitely going to be worse at OG. We don't have anyone on the roster as good as Richie and Jerry.

As for the OP question about LT, I think the easy solution there is to stop all this nonesense about Turner playing guard. Just because he had one bad practice vs higher level of talent at the senior bowl does not change the fact that he is a natural LT. Turner if moved to guard has a very average ceiling, but at LT he can become very good. His slide and foot quickness makes him a perfect fit at LT at the NFL level. Once he gets a year or so under his belt I think he can become a very good LT, and would be the best backup on the roster THIS year.

If you try and switch Turner to guard is there anyone who really thinks he can be useful THIS year?? If so show me another example. Show me a small school guy taken in the 3rd rd or later who came in and moved from Tackle to guard and started his first year. I don't know the answer to tha question, but I think you would have a hard time finding any.
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Wow, is that what you gathered from my quote? I said I feel better about our line after the draft this year than last year. That's it. Pretty plain and simple. Never even mentioned Turners name. And to be honest, I was worried about everyone but Cogs and Pouncey last year......and with reason. Everyone you just mentioned sucked. ProBowls, quick feet, old positions, whatever....they collectively sucked. And when was John Jerry good again, cause I must have missed the past 4 seasons.

And sorry, I don't have time to watch tape of small school players to provide you with examples of good play from players that I didn't even mention, or players that I choose not to argue about.

FYI -free agency happened before the draft, so it could be that I'm feeling better about our line at this point due to the draft AND free agency. Despite your rants, our line will be better than last year. That's all.
 
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Should be an average line, maybe above average if we get the right breaks with coaching and health.

There are not many teams with a qualified LT backup, it's just the nature of the salary cap era. Like trying to have two starting quality QBs on a roster, it is unlikely to happen and doesn't last long when it does.
 
Spiff said:
The biggest improvement over last year is the OL coach Benton. If he had been the coach last year, we would have had at least an average line. No concerns about the 2014 O line here, those guys will be fine.
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Nail on the head.

I would not mind Yeatman being brought back as the 3rd OT (backing up Albert & James).
 
Still need a true center and not a guard who changed positions because of his superior siblings credentials.
 
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