amnesty time ... Concerning Beck, anti-Beck etc.

[Wildbill3]

Okay seriously I really can't believe that one player (well I can, it happens every year) is causing this much of a problem among our membership. Many of us agree that he isn't getting a fair shake, others agree that him getting a fair shake would take 2-3 years at which point he'll be older and age doesn't always have its benifits in the NFL.

Anyway, I don't care if people discuss things rationally, as long as they do so with respect. And its the recent lack of respect between the two 'camps' that is causing so much of a problem. Here is what the TOS says about personal attacks, and annoyance...

Now I'd rather keep the looser atmosphere, but I won't tolerare disrespect among us either. If you report someone for a PA, make sure you didn't respond in kind... or you'll both be hit with an infraction. I'm handing out warnings right now to all that i've seen involved. I won't name names in a thread as things of this nature are meant to stay between staff and the member involved, it has always been that way and will remain that way. Any questions by all means pm me.


Personal Attacks
There will be no personal attacks toward any other member, no matter what. If you are offended by another posters comments, please email an administrator or moderator as soon as possible explaining what happened. If you respond in the same manor as they did, you are now part of the problem. If you have something against someone else, please email/PM the member. DO NOT take out personal arguments in a thread.

Personal attacks can be categorized as (but not limited to): Racist, Bigoted, Derogatory, Sexist, Hateful or Threatening.

Annoyance
Individuals who detract from the site through ongoing incivility, immaturity, and/or disrespect for the contributions and responsibilities of others may be afforded maximal opportunities to spend their time elsewhere.

 

[Bumrush]

Good call. We need to slow down on this Beck debate but unfortunanty bashing or defending him has become a drug to many of us :)

 

[WelcomeBack]

Agreed. It seems like everytime we have a new thread, it somehow turns into a Beck vs. Henne argument.

I would like to read people's thoughts on the Training Camp blog rather than going a few posts in and seeing "Beck is better", "No Henne is better." Especially when people could take it too far.

 

[finman38]

Were all on the same team so we need to suport both beck and henne and any member on our team.

 

[WVDolphan]

Im all for ending all the Beck discussion on the board. I mean after all, even if he sticks it will be as a 3rd string QB for us. Not really all that signifigant.

I know Ive done my fair share of getting my point across on Beck. I just wish everyone would bother to look at my real critique posts and realize there are some good points there and not just the posts that arent meant to be in depth analysis.

Also take the time to look at the posts I make that are sincere and see that I have no ill will towards whatever the guy chooses to do with his future. Good luck to Beck, but I just want him off the team so we can move forward. All Beck can do for the phins at this point is harm the teams morale with his poor play.

Anyways, Im would be elated to not post about Beck anymore. Its just when I continue to see posts that either continue to make excuses for the guy, question the sense of our FO for shipping him off, bash the entire rest of our players that were on the team last year to defend Beck's play, attempt to make alot of the people who were right about Beck look like lesser people(that one especially), question the fanhood of those who want Beck off the team or dont care for his play, or suggest that people who want to dismiss Beck dont know football, Its VERY difficult for me not to respond.

It just makes it seem like I havent gotten my points across that lie within the dozens of thought out, descriptive, non-bashing, rational posts I have made about Beck's play.

 

[ckparrothead]

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to end all discussion of John Beck and that is not in any way, shape or form the design of Wildbill3 or the moderators/admins here at FinHeaven. There is no reason for people to stop bringing up their viewpoints on why Beck should be kept or not kept, examples of where reporters may still be showing bias, or examples that show the reporters are NOT showing bias, it's all fair game.

The aim of the moderators is to end the constant antagonism and enmity, insults, personal attacks and other blatant breaches of the TOS. Unfortunately WV, you have been one of the primary sources of that kind of behavior and you continue to be to this very day, even as you claim you want to end all of this nonsense.

 

[WVDolphan]

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to end all discussion of John Beck and that is not in any way, shape or form the design of Wildbill3 or the moderators/admins here at FinHeaven. There is no reason for people to stop bringing up their viewpoints on why Beck should be kept or not kept, examples of where reporters may still be showing bias, or examples that show the reporters are NOT showing bias, it's all fair game.

The aim of the moderators is to end the constant antagonism and enmity, insults, personal attacks and other blatant breaches of the TOS. Unfortunately WV, you have been one of the primary sources of that kind of behavior and you continue to be to this very day, even as you claim you want to end all of this nonsense.

I think you and I need to have a chat in PM to get this thing settled. Because IMHO it is YOU that are the leader and stirrer of such instances where one side is pitted against another and it is YOU that chooses which posters for an entire side that follows your opinions and more or less dictates which posters on the other side of the issues that get personally attacked and belittled. You are looked up to by ALOT of posters on here(Im not sure why yet) but you are. And when you start with the backhanded comments and the pompus attitude it more or less gives the green light to those who agree with everything you say to begin pasting a set of posters. I think as a person who other posters respond to like yourself, you need to be a leader and totally refrain from making other posters look less credible than yourself. But, you do the total opposite of that.

Anyways, I think we should discuss this in PM because I totally agree with Wildbill that this IS not the type of atmosphere that needs to exist here. Im all for a total brotherhood of phinfans that can disagree on issues without one set trying to make the other look like idiots for having a different opinion. And we can definately do without the personal attacks. Im sure we can work this out for the best for ALL FH members.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I'll admit I've went a little overboard concerning Beck....but it was mostly just in fun....

However, I do agree with WV's perspective that bashing the other players on the team in an attempt to justify Beck's poor play is also rather deceptive.

If Beck doesn't pan out...the team is going to suffer because of it...and that is something that NONE of us will be happy with....

Maybe not all the time...but more often than not...if a player is going to be the one to take you where you want to go...you'll see something by now....anything.

I lost all confidence in Beck when I watched him play last year....with the drafting of Henne...I knew the new regime wasn't confident in him either.

I can't support a player I'm not confident in....I can't make myself believe something that I don't.

There are dolphin forums all over that have become "divided" over the subject of Beck....the real issue is...is the team divided?

I don't think so....I haven't heard a player yet come out and speak in support of Beck.

If his teammates and coaches don't have confidence in him...that's all that matters. And it will probably be best for Beck, the Dolphins, and Dolphin forums everywhere if/when Beck is no longer a subject.

That's my piece....I'm done with it...lol.

Now I'm off to critique Henne's poor showing in practice today....

 

[ckparrothead]

I think you and I need to have a chat in PM to get this thing settled. Because IMHO it is YOU that are the leader and stirrer of such instances where one side is pitted against another and it is YOU that chooses which posters for an entire side that follows your opinions and more or less dictates which posters on the other side of the issues that get personally attacked and belittled. You are looked up to by ALOT of posters on here(Im not sure why yet) but you are. And when you start with the backhanded comments and the pompus attitude it more or less gives the green light to those who agree with everything you say to begin pasting a set of posters. I think as a person who other posters respond to like yourself, you need to be a leader and totally refrain from making other posters look less credible than yourself. But, you do the total opposite of that.

Anyways, I think we should discuss this in PM because I totally agree with Wildbill that this IS not the type of atmosphere that needs to exist here. Im all for a total brotherhood of phinfans that can disagree on issues without one set trying to make the other look like idiots for having a different opinion. And we can definately do without the personal attacks. Im sure we can work this out for the best for ALL FH members.

I don't think there's anything to really discuss via PM but feel free to do so. I will say the only things that need to be said right now.

Your entire vision of me sending attack dogs at certain people, is entirely in your head. I'm not having PM conversations with people behind closed doors, asking "minions" to do this or that. That's all just pure projection on your part, all in your head.

All I do, all I've ever done, is argue and make points. If I get looked up to because of that, so be it. I encourage EVERYONE to follow the TOS and really there are two kinds of people here, the people that follow it and refrain from personal attacks, and the people that blatantly break it and begin personally attacking others. I am not responsible for everyone else's actions that happen to agree with me. You have a beef with them, see them. All I'm responsible for are my own actions and as a rule I do not break the TOS. I just don't. I don't care what you think I do or do not do, I don't generally break the TOS and personally attack someone, unless they do it a first time, and then a second time, and then a third time, so on and so forth.

So just let it go. If someone attacks you or belittles you, breaks the TOS, report them. I don't care if they agree with me or if they don't. Respect the TOS. Don't hold other people accountable and then blame the entire situation for your repeated violations.

That's all that really needs to be said.

 

[Vaark]

Wild Bill

I applaud your post, but don't think you've gone far enough.

For the life of me, I've never understood why some of the most denigrating pejoratives are hurled around when describing our players.

I would propose to the powers that be to modify the current TOS to include the prohibition of a range of adjectives and phrases along the order of "garbage," POS," "not fit to carry ___'s jockstrap" and the like. IMO it's just totally disrespectful and often results in the inevitable backlash and one-upsmanship. Of course I'm referring to Beck specifically here, but it could have as easily applied in 06 to Culpepper ("dullpecker".. see I'm as guilty as anyone so I'm not pointing specific fingers).

There's absolutely nothing wrong with voicing not just displeasure of, but extreme distaste with the performance or attitude of a particular player, argue for their removal or demotion and/or take them to task for underperformance. I just firmly believe we should ALL take the high road in our displeasure instead of sinking to the lowest common denominators.

Of course FH could easily overreact to a point where we end up sliding into censorship...so it should be up to the mods to neutrally interpret and enforce this modification. In general though, I think a rule of thumb should be: "would he/she use those specific words or phrases to voice their displeasure with their mothers, wives or children"???

Yes, "the pen IS mightier than the sword" and when words are all we have, they can and have proven to be offensive and polarizing. If someone can't communicate their aversions without resorting to the basest expressions, they probably shouldn't be posting here anyway.

I can't believe I'm alone in being disgusted by this flavor of disrespect, or in wanting FH to modify its TOS accordingly. Mods should apply standards similar to those that they do when censoring personal attacks: It's ok to express whatever your idea or sentiments may be, but without resorting to personal attacks beyond the playing field analysis or using the likes of:garbage, genitals, eliminations or any words they wouldn't use to describe their own friends and family.

 

[Predaphin]

I personally cannot beleive how much some of our finfans can take the beck discussion to the extreme.

I am no Anti-Beck, nor Beck supporter. At this point, I really don't care who is our QB as long as he plays better than the guys we've had before. Whether it's Beck, Henne, McCown....and, yes, even Pennington (in which I was against in signing).

I don;t understand how some of our finfans can bach on Beck when he is on our team.

My opinion of Beck right now, is that he has not played up to par. He still looks shaky and does not currently look like a starter, however, I also think it's way too soon to judge him, as he has only seen limited playing time as the starter.

 

[Wildbill3]

Wild Bill

I applaud your post, but don't think you've gone far enough.

For the life of me, I've never understood why some of the most denigrating pejoratives are hurled around when describing our players.

I would propose to the powers that be to modify the current TOS to include the prohibition of a range of adjectives and phrases along the order of "garbage," POS," "not fit to carry ___'s jockstrap" and the like. IMO it's just totally disrespectful and often results in the inevitable backlash and one-upsmanship. Of course I'm referring to Beck specifically here, but it could have as easily applied in 06 to Culpepper ("dullpecker".. see I'm as guilty as anyone so I'm not pointing specific fingers).

There's absolutely nothing wrong with voicing not just displeasure of, but extreme distaste with the performance or attitude of a particular player, argue for their removal or demotion and/or take them to task for underperformance. I just firmly believe we should ALL take the high road in our displeasure instead of sinking to the lowest common denominators.

Of course FH could easily overreact to a point where we end up sliding into censorship...so it should be up to the mods to neutrally interpret and enforce this modification. In general though, I think a rule of thumb should be: "would he/she use those specific words or phrases to voice their displeasure with their mothers, wives or children"???

Yes, "the pen IS mightier than the sword" and when words are all we have, they can and have proven to be offensive and polarizing. If someone can't communicate their aversions without resorting to the basest expressions, they probably shouldn't be posting here anyway.

I can't believe I'm alone in being disgusted by this flavor of disrespect, or in wanting FH to modify its TOS accordingly. Mods should apply standards similar to those that they do when censoring personal attacks: It's ok to express whatever your idea or sentiments may be, but without resorting to personal attacks beyond the playing field analysis or using the likes of:garbage, genitals, eliminations or any words they wouldn't use to describe their own friends and family.

Seriously I will not censor conversation. I know conversation will be heated, I expect it, heck some of the best conversation comes from our disagreements, not our agreements. I mean it would be king of the hill around here if everyone agreed all the time... "yep, yep, yep, beer, yep, yep... etc" So by all means disagree on beck/whoever. this is a messageboard. lol.

What we won't allow, is people to personally attack others. anytime the conversation goes from beck blah blah blah, to "you ... etc" its borderline personal attack. take it to pm. but beware pms can be reported too...

anyway one thing we should all have in common... we are all fans of the dolphins, that should unite us more than divide us.

 

[MikeO]

I Just think a lot of people ran out and spent good money on JOHN BECK jerseys last year. And they don't want to be selling them on EBAY for like $8 in about ten days when he is gone and the jerseys have no value.

People might be a little sensative to that. Hence all the hostility!! I don't know, I could be wrong. : )

 

[Wildbill3]

I Just think a lot of people ran out and spent good money on JOHN BECK jerseys last year. And they don't want to be selling them on EBAY for like $8 in about ten days when he is gone and the jerseys have no value.

People might be a little sensative to that. Hence all the hostility!! I don't know, I could be wrong. : )

I would've bought Ginn at the most lol.

 

[Roman529]

I am not the biggest Beck fan, but lets allow Parcells and Sparano to decide who our QB is going to be this year. I think we as Dolphin's fans all want the same thing, and that is success on the field. There is a way to be critical of players and in each other on FH without being disrespectful.