An objective Green and Carr comparison

[Rubbin420]

I know this is a touchy subject for some, should we take Carr or Green or none of the above.

It seems that the majority of people here are for the latter. I can see why. We have been burned by re-treads for some time now. The dolphins are hungry for stability in the QB position and for good reason. I think after all is said and done, we can make some bottom line points on the matter.

1) There is only one Marino, he will never be replaced, so lets give that up.

2) We can not gamble our season betting on CPEPs knee. We need to have a plan B that is solid.

3) Cleo Lemon is a great prospect, but we need a Veteran presence on the field.

4) Drafting a QB in the draft and putting him in day one can cost games that can keep you out of playoff contention. Lets draft a guy and bring him along, not throw him in a fire with a new o-line.

So know that Ive stated my case for getting some experience in here lets look at the 2 possible prospects and see who has the most upside.

First lets look at Carr. The guy has been on his back more than any other QB. The consensus in the NFL is nobody really knows how good this guy can be. I would agree. Unfortunately he would be coming to a team with an even more suspect line than Houston. That point could apply to any QB we bring in here, so lets give him a plus over Green for mobility.
Carr has youth on his side. Green is 37 yrs old. Nuff said on that point.
Carr has a great deep ball. He can use Andre J. well and knows how to get the ball out of his hands to a decent spot for the catch.
Carr is getting better every year as far as completion percentage. Heres the numbers if you dont believe it.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/306268

Unfortunately, Carr has a tendancy to make bad decisions. Look at his fumbles and picks.
The biggest downside to Carr IMO is the cost to acquire him. A first day pick is taking away from the youth we so eagerly seek.


As for Green, I have to say his numbers are pretty good for a guy whos team ran the ball over 400 times a year and had no name receivers. From 2002 to 2005 he had great QB ratings. Ratings even a Dolfan would be happy with.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1599

Last year was a bad year for Green. He had the snot knocked out of him and wasnt the same after. I do believe he is still capable of performing and for his age he is able to run out of the pocket. The thing that bothers me is he has this look like he has taken too many hits to the head. Kind of that same look that Aikman has. (ya know that look? like someone passed gas and your too tired to care)
Anyways, I still think he has the leadership advantage over Carr as well as the experience to play the big game.

This thread is under the caveat that CPEP cant play, god knows he deserves the last chance. My question is if we pick up a Carr or Green, Lemon, and CPEP that means if we draft a QB we would have 4 QBs. Or someones gotta go. Scarey.

I believe that I could find positives in either QB, but due to our current situation I would have to go with Carr. The main reason is durability, he hasnt missed a game in quite some time. If Carr does cost a second round pick, forget Carr and go with Green, we need those picks.

Lets give the coaching staff a chance to do their thing. I think our offense will be better than last year regardless.

Hope you guys see where Im coming from.

Go Phins

 

[dolphan98]

As for Green, I have to say his numbers are pretty good for a guy whos team ran the ball over 400 times a year and had no name receivers.

Go Phins

I seem to recall some guy named Tony on the Chiefs but I'm not exactly sure what his last name is. I think he's been to the Pro Bowl a couple of times.

 

[deathdisco]

I say wait for the teams to release them and then see who we can get cheap, there is no need to trade picks for these 2 guys, each of them will be released. I doubt anyone is going to trade for Carr now that have their replacement who they are giving 6 years 48 mil to.

Patience, neither one really excites me. Trent Green 5 years ago I would have been all for it, but not a guy who was injured last year and at 37.

I still want to see CPEP on the field for a season, we gave up enough for him we deserve a season with him playing.

 

[PogiRo]

Nice post. I'd like for the Dolphins to get Carr, but no more than a 4th rounder, and I'd be hesitant to give that much. A 5th would be easy enough to give up. I really do not see any upside to getting Green. Not that I'm sold on Lemon, but I'd put him in before Green because Green just isn't going to take us anywhere. Green's numbers are good with mediocre WRs, but I'd think that a lot of that is cuz he's had a marquee RB behind him and a great line in front of him in KC. Put Carr in that offense and I see him doing better than Green.

Carr just did not get a fair shot in Houston and I'll admit, my thoughts of him aren't that much different from what I thought about Harrington, except that I honestly think Carr is more talented and had less to work with. And another quality I see in Carr and not in Harrington is his composure. I dunno if he faced the same amount of criticism in Houston than Harrington did (I'd imagine so cuz it's Texas), but while I remember Joey saying some things in Detroit about his situation, I don't remember anything from Carr's mouth in Houston. To me he's handled the pressure better.

My hopes for the QB position in order...
1) Daunte returns healthy and gets his shot. If he fails, then it's over.
2) Trade no more than a 4th for Carr
3) Draft a QB... kinda wanna draft a QB regardless, how soon depends on what other options are on the roster already
4) Don't trade for Green no matter what. If anything, bring back Frerotte, hah.

 

[TXFinFan]

Nice review. I have watched almost every game that David Carr has played for the Texans. He has shown flashes of brilliance, but has never really been given the tools to succeed. He only had 1 good receiver, that was double covered on every play. He hasn't had a decent running game since Domanick Davis (Williams) got hurt. His offensive line was the worst that has ever been seen since football was invented. He would've been sacked even more than he was if he was not so mobile.

I would like to see us give Carr a chance, but we would need to draft nothing but OL & WR this year, for Carr to be able to succeed right away. At the first sign of our line being as bad as the lines he has played behind, he will mentally crumble. For him to be truly rehabilitated, he is going to need some great coaching and confidence building from Coach Cam, and he is going to need a few games in a row of 2 sacks or less.

 

[Rubbin420]

I seem to recall some guy named Tony on the Chiefs but I'm not exactly sure what his last name is. I think he's been to the Pro Bowl a couple of times.

If your tight end is all you got, then you have a poor receiving core. you missed my point, or you just like to be a smarta--

 

[cowtowndick]

agree with most of this post. i wouldn't give up anything for either one of them - maybe a sixth or seventh, wait for them to get cut. it's critical to draft a qb this year, and preferably not one that will take three years to develop. having said that, there's no way you can bring in green or carr and keep culpepper. if his knee isn't ready (and that seems to be the word), then you have to move on, imo. mueller and cameron have to make the tough choices, that's why they're in the positions they are in.

 

[datruth55]

Carr IMO is damaged goods. Just like Joey was. Can he improve...maybe. Would it be drastic enough to help us.....probably not. As we saw in Joey he was better with us than he was in Detroit but the years of playing for a loser, coming in as a rookie and being dubbed the savior had ruined him. Carr is in the same boat. I think he's irrepairable.

Green provides us with someone who's actually done something in the league. Some legitamacy at the QB position. And Green was not a one year wonder like Culpepper who's questions about his decision making have always come to the forefront.

If we sign Green I think Culpepper gets released. If we sign Carr I think they wait and see what Culpepper does in mini camp and training camp but he could still be released if he doesn't show his knee to be well enough to play and start.

I would prefer the Greens scenario cause that would mean we still draft a QB and we haven't drafted one since 1992 if I remember correctly.

 

[TXFinFan]

Carr IMO is damaged goods. Just like Joey was. Can he improve...maybe. Would it be drastic enough to help us.....probably not. As we saw in Joey he was better with us than he was in Detroit but the years of playing for a loser, coming in as a rookie and being dubbed the savior had ruined him. Carr is in the same boat. I think he's irrepairable.

Green provides us with someone who's actually done something in the league. Some legitamacy at the QB position. And Green was not a one year wonder like Culpepper who's questions about his decision making have always come to the forefront.

If we sign Green I think Culpepper gets released. If we sign Carr I think they wait and see what Culpepper does in mini camp and training camp but he could still be released if he doesn't show his knee to be well enough to play and start.

I would prefer the Greens scenario cause that would mean we still draft a QB and we haven't drafted one since 1992 if I remember correctly.

I think Green is more damaged goods than Carr. His age plus the severity of the concussion is a huge factor. Green was just flat outplayed by Huard last year.

 

[datruth55]

Nice review. I have watched almost every game that David Carr has played for the Texans. He has shown flashes of brilliance, but has never really been given the tools to succeed. He only had 1 good receiver, that was double covered on every play. He hasn't had a decent running game since Domanick Davis (Williams) got hurt. His offensive line was the worst that has ever been seen since football was invented. He would've been sacked even more than he was if he was not so mobile.

I would like to see us give Carr a chance, but we would need to draft nothing but OL & WR this year, for Carr to be able to succeed right away. At the first sign of our line being as bad as the lines he has played behind, he will mentally crumble. For him to be truly rehabilitated, he is going to need some great coaching and confidence building from Coach Cam, and he is going to need a few games in a row of 2 sacks or less.

At the beginning of the season when Culpepper was on pace to be sacked 85 times would you have considered our O-line the worst in the league that has ever existed? Most Texan fans seem to believe the majority of the sacks are Carr's fault cause he holds on to the ball too long. Just like Culpepper did early this year.

 

[sleek]

Carr= 1st day draft pick, more money for more turnovers.
Green= 7th rd pick, less money,less turnovers
Gotta go with Green on this one

 

[TXFinFan]

At the beginning of the season when Culpepper was on pace to be sacked 85 times would you have considered our O-line the worst in the league that has ever existed? Most Texan fans seem to believe the majority of the sacks are Carr's fault cause he holds on to the ball too long. Just like Culpepper did early this year.

He does hold on to the ball too long sometimes, but mainly that is due to only having one receiver. If the Texans would've had a slot receiver like Wes Welker, it would've helped a lot.

 

[Butterfrog 2.0]

Well the things you left about Green are........ Being on a team with a great rushing attack that runs it That much actually HELPS the passing game and makes it a little easier, also He had a GREAT O-line in KC, and Tony Gonzalez has always been one of the best go to targets in the entire NFL so Green has had a LOT of help whereas Carr has had very little to no help.

 

[datruth55]

He does hold on to the ball too long sometimes, but mainly that is due to only having one receiver. If the Texans would've had a slot receiver like Wes Welker, it would've helped a lot.

Guess what. We no longer have a slot receiver like Wes Welker and who on this roster is as good as Andre Johnson? Certainly not Chambers. We don't have McMichael anymore either. So where would his help be here?

 

[Rubbin420]

Carr= 1st day draft pick, more money for more turnovers.
Green= 7th rd pick, less money,less turnovers
Gotta go with Green on this one

I believe KC wants more than a 7th.

I do understand your point though.

It comes down to cost for me. If the reward is short term, I like it. We need a guy who can cover while we bring a draft pick along. 1 or 2yrs at the most.