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An Observation from Middle Ground

ChambersWI

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Okay guys you all know I tend to be more optimistic when it comes to moves the Fins make, that's just the way I am. Now in this thread, I'm not getting up on a soapbox and preaching we should support our team nor am I going to bash everybody and say we are a joke. I don't want this thread to become a bashing session either but that again might be too much to ask for.

Let me first start by saying whatever plan Ireland and Philbin have, the start of it has been poorly executed. Now I am not talking as much about the QB situation as I am the Wide Receiver situation. Honestly, I was never overly thrilled with the idea of getting Matt Flynn. Yes he has looked good in 2 games, but that's just it, it is two games with a stacked receiving corp. Was I willing to give him a shot? Sure, especially if we could have gotten him for the relatively friendly deal Seattle got for him. But I was not thrilled with the idea of giving him a Kevin Kolb like deal. I'm not going to address the Peyton Manning situation as honestly, I never felt we were seriously going to be considered. WHen he didn't even come visit our facilities I was ready to move on. Now there is Ireland's first mistake (and this probably goes more on Ross) they didn't/refused to see the writing on the wall that we weren't getting Peyton. Had they seen it earlier maybe we would have been more active on the free agent market.

I am intrigued by Alex Smith, but I doubt he comes here with the Manning saga coming to a close. This all reeks of desperation. Another mistake. Now I'm not against going into next season with Matt Moore as our starter (to be fair to him, he did earn the right to at least compete for the starting job next season) and going with a rookie QB behind him.

This is where I don't like how the FO handled the WR situation. While I would have liked to have seen us get more for Brandon Marshall, trading him is not the end of the world. Brian Hartline and Davone Bess are nice assets to have. Here's the problem though; they have very similar skill sets and we don't have much diversity with our other WRs. I have no problem not giving huge contracts to the Pierre Garcons and the Laurent Robinson's of the world but they would have added an extra dimension to the offense. As of right now, if we want a deep threat we have to rely on the very raw Clyde Gates or Julius Pruitt. In not at least attempting to get another WR, our draft choices become more desperate for need rather than Best Player Available. Had we not spent time *****footing around Manning we could have realistically filled 1 or 2 more needs.

Now that being said the offseason is a long way from over. Joe Philbin has come out and stated he wants to build through the draft. He came from an organization that has been one of the best drafting teams of the past decade. If he and Ireland are on the same page (and for the most part I believe they are) they can build in a fairly deep draft. Our 2 coordinators also have the reputations of good developers of talent.

The 2012 offseason is far from over and the 2012 Miami Dolphins are far from being constructed. We have the draft ahead of us and plenty of picks to work with. Now where more criticism will be warranted is with the players selected. As I briefly mentioned, the decision to wait for Peyton to make a decision has made our needs more glaring because we ignored some free agents and in the short term the trade of Brandon Marshall also hurt us, but the Super Bowl is not won in the first week of Free Agency; ask last year's Eagles or any of Dan Snyder's Redskin teams.

The fate of the team now rests on the draft, which is just over a month away. Some will say Ireland will screw it up, others will be excited. But that is where our future lies.
 
Good post. A great draft solves lots of problems.
 
I'm really pissed about Marshall, disappointed Winston wasn't landed. I don't think there is anything they could do at QB right now and I'm hoping for Weeden or could get on board with Tannehill. I'm not suprised they didn't want Flynn and was kind of worried he would be Jay Fiedler 17.0 or I guess 16.0 since Pennington was pretty good. Not really sold on Smith and couldn't expect him to leave the situation he is in. The off season isn't close to over and it's a long, long time before this team even plays a regular season game. I'm saving most of my anger for draft day and the season opener.

We fans are so use to seeing it fall apart time and time again so I can understand why people are paranoid and I'm a little paranoid myself. It's not much of a leash we have this team on. If we were New England fans and a FA was passed on or they cut a star WR we would be OK with it becuase they are use to things going right.

At least the coaching staff was replaced that's a nice start.
 
Good stuff but fans are impatient and want results today so the draft looks so far off but I think it will play itself out in the end.
 
Agree 110% on the Marshall situation. I posted damn near the same thing not too long ago in the AM thread. If they decided marshall was more a headache than he is worth, fine. But have visits lined up with Floyd, Manningham and Meacham. Replace him. This group of receivers just isnt going to work. We have no TE or WR that people fear and sure as hell dont have a fear inducing QB.
 
Good stuff but fans are impatient and want results today so the draft looks so far off but I think it will play itself out in the end.

Maybe we get Floyd or somebody, but like ChambersWI said, why pigeon hole ourselves into HAVING to draft Floyd when we could have signed one of the top 3 or 4 FA targets and had options with our pick? It makes no sense and honestly thats my biggest issue with this FO. They never seem to have a plan and every single thing they do seems to be reactive and never proactive.
 
Maybe we get Floyd or somebody, but like ChambersWI said, why pigeon hole ourselves into HAVING to draft Floyd when we could have signed one of the top 3 or 4 FA targets and had options with our pick? It makes no sense and honestly thats my biggest issue with this FO. They never seem to have a plan and every single thing they do seems to be reactive and never proactive.

Absolutely agree and they come off as not knowing what they are doing when they rely on the Bears to announce why the trade was made instead of informing their fans that he was involved in another incident and they wanted to move on but as you say at least attempt to replace him without sitting so idle.
 
I tend to agree with you Chambers. BUT...there a few spots where I am most disappointed. For starters, that while waiting for Manning (despite it being fairly obvious we weren't getting him) they refused to be active in FA to "save the money for Manning". As such, we likely lost out on Winston and perhaps a WR to help ease the loss of Brandon Marshall.

There were a few moves they could have made in FA that could have given them some wiggle room come draft time. Now, due to their apparent lack of forsight, they have really painted themselves into a corner come draft time, and are going to have to knock it out of the park in terms of good picks just to make up for their FA gaffs.

I'm not too upset about the QB situation. My dream was to get Manning and draft Tannehill...Once we got the token visit from Manning, I knew that wasn't going to happen. Just wish Ireland would have figured it out as quickly. I said all along that if we did not get Flynn, it was because Philbin did not think he was a franchise QB, which appears to have been the case. Not sure what I think about Alex Smith, although I do not think we get him.
 
Okay guys you all know I tend to be more optimistic when it comes to moves the Fins make, that's just the way I am. Now in this thread, I'm not getting up on a soapbox and preaching we should support our team nor am I going to bash everybody and say we are a joke. I don't want this thread to become a bashing session either but that again might be too much to ask for.

Let me first start by saying whatever plan Ireland and Philbin have, the start of it has been poorly executed. Now I am not talking as much about the QB situation as I am the Wide Receiver situation. Honestly, I was never overly thrilled with the idea of getting Matt Flynn. Yes he has looked good in 2 games, but that's just it, it is two games with a stacked receiving corp. Was I willing to give him a shot? Sure, especially if we could have gotten him for the relatively friendly deal Seattle got for him. But I was not thrilled with the idea of giving him a Kevin Kolb like deal. I'm not going to address the Peyton Manning situation as honestly, I never felt we were seriously going to be considered. WHen he didn't even come visit our facilities I was ready to move on. Now there is Ireland's first mistake (and this probably goes more on Ross) they didn't/refused to see the writing on the wall that we weren't getting Peyton. Had they seen it earlier maybe we would have been more active on the free agent market.


I am intrigued by Alex Smith, but I doubt he comes here with the Manning saga coming to a close. This all reeks of desperation. Another mistake. Now I'm not against going into next season with Matt Moore as our starter (to be fair to him, he did earn the right to at least compete for the starting job next season) and going with a rookie QB behind him.

This is where I don't like how the FO handled the WR situation. While I would have liked to have seen us get more for Brandon Marshall, trading him is not the end of the world. Brian Hartline and Davone Bess are nice assets to have. Here's the problem though; they have very similar skill sets and we don't have much diversity with our other WRs. I have no problem not giving huge contracts to the Pierre Garcons and the Laurent Robinson's of the world but they would have added an extra dimension to the offense. As of right now, if we want a deep threat we have to rely on the very raw Clyde Gates or Julius Pruitt. In not at least attempting to get another WR, our draft choices become more desperate for need rather than Best Player Available. Had we not spent time *****footing around Manning we could have realistically filled 1 or 2 more needs.

Now that being said the offseason is a long way from over. Joe Philbin has come out and stated he wants to build through the draft. He came from an organization that has been one of the best drafting teams of the past decade. If he and Ireland are on the same page (and for the most part I believe they are) they can build in a fairly deep draft. Our 2 coordinators also have the reputations of good developers of talent.

The 2012 offseason is far from over and the 2012 Miami Dolphins are far from being constructed. We have the draft ahead of us and plenty of picks to work with. Now where more criticism will be warranted is with the players selected. As I briefly mentioned, the decision to wait for Peyton to make a decision has made our needs more glaring because we ignored some free agents and in the short term the trade of Brandon Marshall also hurt us, but the Super Bowl is not won in the first week of Free Agency; ask last year's Eagles or any of Dan Snyder's Redskin teams.

The fate of the team now rests on the draft, which is just over a month away. Some will say Ireland will screw it up, others will be excited. But that is where our future lies.

Well said. :hclap:
 
thats much more reasonable that some cat telling me how i should be acting as a fan...like its their duty or something...
 
thats much more reasonable that some cat telling me how i should be acting as a fan...like its their duty or something...

hoops my man, you know I'm not gonna attack negativity. I'm gonna call people out for refusing to support their feelings when asked why other than saying "Ireland sucks" but otherwise I'll just debate and respect views.

You and I had some arguments on the Pouncey pick. Your biggest reason for not liking it was you felt there were better players available and you showed why. At the same time I got into an argument with a couple people where they just said LOL Pouncey sux. I think you even conceded that Pouncey exceeded your rookie expectations for him (correct me if I'm wrong)
 
pouncey was great...no doubt...fantastic rookie year...but my issue wasn't with the player it was with the return on the top 15 pick on a interior lineman...but pouncey is a heck of a player so he justified the slot at least...value wise i would have liked to get more of a skill position impact player but we got a 10 year starting high end very good move athlete center...barring injury we have locked that down long term with pouncey...very impressed with his play this season

but the bottom line is until we get us a high end qb none of this is gonna add up to many more w's in the win column...and alex smith is a pretty much known quantity at this point and i don't think he's that guy either...and david garrard heaven help us...i just don't see the optimism at the position that i saw earlier...why the heck wouldn't we part with $10 mil for flynn and front load the contract so we could get out??? i just don't get it...you bring him in but yet you won't do what it takes and its not like this was much anyways risk or money to get it done...baffling
 
pouncey was great...no doubt...fantastic rookie year...but my issue wasn't with the player it was with the return on the top 15 pick on a interior lineman...but pouncey is a heck of a player so he justified the slot at least...value wise i would have liked to get more of a skill position impact player but we got a 10 year starting high end very good move athlete center...barring injury we have locked that down long term with pouncey...very impressed with his play this season

but the bottom line is until we get us a high end qb none of this is gonna add up to many more w's in the win column...and alex smith is a pretty much known quantity at this point and i don't think he's that guy either...and david garrard heaven help us...i just don't see the optimism at the position that i saw earlier...why the heck wouldn't we part with $10 mil for flynn and front load the contract so we could get out??? i just don't get it...you bring him in but yet you won't do what it takes and its not like this was much anyways risk or money to get it done...baffling

Exactly. The Pouncey pick is not a good example to bring up when trying to defend Jeff Ireland. That was a terrible value pick.

Don't get me wrong, I like Pouncey a lot. But the difference in the win/loss column between having the best center in the NFL and the 15th best center in the NFL is nothing compared to the difference of having the best quarterback or cornerback or wide receiver or pass rusher in the NFL and the 10th best in the NFL at those positions.

No. Freakin'. Comparison.

You don't win in the NFL with a team full of grinders. You win with stars scattered in important spots.
 
Okay guys you all know I tend to be more optimistic when it comes to moves the Fins make, that's just the way I am. Now in this thread, I'm not getting up on a soapbox and preaching we should support our team nor am I going to bash everybody and say we are a joke. I don't want this thread to become a bashing session either but that again might be too much to ask for.

Let me first start by saying whatever plan Ireland and Philbin have, the start of it has been poorly executed. Now I am not talking as much about the QB situation as I am the Wide Receiver situation. Honestly, I was never overly thrilled with the idea of getting Matt Flynn. Yes he has looked good in 2 games, but that's just it, it is two games with a stacked receiving corp. Was I willing to give him a shot? Sure, especially if we could have gotten him for the relatively friendly deal Seattle got for him. But I was not thrilled with the idea of giving him a Kevin Kolb like deal. I'm not going to address the Peyton Manning situation as honestly, I never felt we were seriously going to be considered. WHen he didn't even come visit our facilities I was ready to move on. Now there is Ireland's first mistake (and this probably goes more on Ross) they didn't/refused to see the writing on the wall that we weren't getting Peyton. Had they seen it earlier maybe we would have been more active on the free agent market.

I am intrigued by Alex Smith, but I doubt he comes here with the Manning saga coming to a close. This all reeks of desperation. Another mistake. Now I'm not against going into next season with Matt Moore as our starter (to be fair to him, he did earn the right to at least compete for the starting job next season) and going with a rookie QB behind him.

This is where I don't like how the FO handled the WR situation. While I would have liked to have seen us get more for Brandon Marshall, trading him is not the end of the world. Brian Hartline and Davone Bess are nice assets to have. Here's the problem though; they have very similar skill sets and we don't have much diversity with our other WRs. I have no problem not giving huge contracts to the Pierre Garcons and the Laurent Robinson's of the world but they would have added an extra dimension to the offense. As of right now, if we want a deep threat we have to rely on the very raw Clyde Gates or Julius Pruitt. In not at least attempting to get another WR, our draft choices become more desperate for need rather than Best Player Available. Had we not spent time *****footing around Manning we could have realistically filled 1 or 2 more needs.

Now that being said the offseason is a long way from over. Joe Philbin has come out and stated he wants to build through the draft. He came from an organization that has been one of the best drafting teams of the past decade. If he and Ireland are on the same page (and for the most part I believe they are) they can build in a fairly deep draft. Our 2 coordinators also have the reputations of good developers of talent.

The 2012 offseason is far from over and the 2012 Miami Dolphins are far from being constructed. We have the draft ahead of us and plenty of picks to work with. Now where more criticism will be warranted is with the players selected. As I briefly mentioned, the decision to wait for Peyton to make a decision has made our needs more glaring because we ignored some free agents and in the short term the trade of Brandon Marshall also hurt us, but the Super Bowl is not won in the first week of Free Agency; ask last year's Eagles or any of Dan Snyder's Redskin teams.

The fate of the team now rests on the draft, which is just over a month away. Some will say Ireland will screw it up, others will be excited. But that is where our future lies.

Good read chambers.

I have the same sentiment regarding the handling of our WR situation. If you truly believe Marshall should be dealt, thats all well and fine. But you had either get fair compensation for it, or address the whole you just created. We seem to have done neither.

It's disappointing to see our team come full circle in 3 years. After addressing needs we clearly needed to address, we have now undone all of that and find ourselves in exactly the same position... losing.. and looking for a quarterback
 
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