Anyone seen Cam Smith ?

[Fullytorqued]

have you seen De'Von Achane?

Andrew Van Ginkel?

Durham Smythe?

Brandon Jones?


that's just right off the top of my head, players drafted after the 1st and 2nd rounds (you already mentioned udfa Kohou).

so a 2nd round rookie corner isn't getting much playing time after game 4, and suddenly Grier never drafts anyone past the 2nd round who is any good?

let's not even get into trades and free agents (sieler, tyreek, connor, lamm, wynn, berrios, mostert)

Smythe is average and already losing snaps to an UDFA and brandon jones is better at tackling his own teammates than his opponents. He almost let gink walk as well. So in 7 years as GM of the fins you can only give me two examples. Great argument bud. Now show me his first and second round busts.

This bum has somehow found his way into our starting lineup AGAIN and we traded up to draft him.

 

[GatorFin73]

I love every time Iggys name is mentioned in this thread.

Cam Smith was a 4 star recruit coming out of high school as a Cornerback.

Recruited to South Carolina out of high school by Will Muschamp as a Cornerback.

Started at South Carolina as a Cornerback.

Drafted by us in the second round to play Cornerback.

Iggy was converted to Cornerback at Alabama and had never played the position before.

His parents were Olympians and by all accounts he is a good kid.

We weirdly had 3 first round picks in 2020, and after drafting Tua and Austin, we rolled the dice on Iggy (pick 30? Pick 31?) as a major long term project at Corner. Would I have done that? Nope. But whatever. Ya wins some ya loses some.

Other than the fact that they both are looked at as Corners in the NFL, there is nothing at all even remotely similar between the two players' situations.

Forget Iggy then, this comparison is irrelevant. Late 2nd round corners or any position really are no sure thing. We all see the pick at the time and hope that position has been addressed but if the guy ends up not working out then it was a wasted pick. A lot of people are wondering what's going on with our latest 2nd round pick, a defensive player on a defense that frankly stinks to date and has particular holes in the secondary, since said 2nd round pick hasn't sniffed game action. Like I said I'm not overly concerned, it's his first year, but we could easily be having this conversation again come the offseason and hoping year 2 is the time, I was hoping for more of an impact this year from our first pick in this draft, especially considering the Ramsey injury. So some concern is valid, we made 2 big moves to address a very bad secondary from last year and neither is playing, that's a big part of why we give up as many points as almost anyone in the league not named Denver.

 

[utahphinsfan]

Correct. I had DeVonta Smith's comments about him on my mind. Thanks.

Glad this was corrected. We wouldn't want to draw the ire of the Tide faithful.

/s

 

[circumstances]

Smythe is average and already losing snaps to an UDFA and brandon jones is better at tackling his own teammates than his opponents. He almost let gink walk as well. So in 7 years as GM of the fins you can only give me two examples. Great argument bud. Now show me his first and second round busts.

This bum has somehow found his way into our starting lineup AGAIN and we traded up to draft him.

First and second round busts?

None, compared with the successes.

The only 2 clear first round misses are Charles Harris and Noah. And I think Black Ice is currently starting for Detroit (or at least playing a lot).

Tua
Austin
Tunsil
Minkah
Wilkins
Waddle
Phillips
Hunt
Holland

You must be kidding me, that you think an inordinate amount of his 1st and 2nd round picks are busts.

 

[Nugtron]

Cocaine? Or was that a one time thing?

Cocaine a "one time thing?" Maybe if you have the willpower of a Saint.

I'm a weak, weak man.

 

[Fullytorqued]

First and second round busts?

None, compared with the successes.

The only 2 clear first round misses are Charles Harris and Noah. And I think Black Ice is currently starting for Detroit (or at least playing a lot).

Tua
Austin
Tunsil
Minkah
Wilkins
Waddle
Phillips
Hunt
Holland

You must be kidding me, that you think an inordinate amount of his 1st and 2nd round picks are busts.

Harris, mcmillan, igbo, eichenberg. You cant use austin jackson yet just because hes played a few good games for the first time since 2020, sorry. So thats a third of his picks. Im glad you didn't address anything else I wrote, so at least we can agree that everything outside of rounds 1-2 are hot garbage.

Heres a stat for you, since 2016, weve had 38 picks outside of the second round, and you are giving grier a high five because we have van ginkel and achane to show for it? GFY

 

[circumstances]

Harris, mcmillan, igbo, eichenberg. You cant use austin jackson yet just because hes played a few good games for the first time since 2020, sorry. So thats a third of his picks. Im glad you didn't address anything else I wrote, so at least we can agree that everything outside of rounds 1-2 are hot garbage.

No, it was so ridiculous.

I had told you I just named a few off the top of my head (3rds and later).

Just like throwing out "harris, McMillan, eichenberg, igbo" is some kind of indictment of his picks in the 1st and 2nd round.

Lmfao

If you think that's a bad track record, you don't understand the draft.

 

[Michael Scott]

Ready or not he should have been given a shot at least in the second half in Buffalo to get his feet wet. Couldn’t hurt. I’d like to see him get an opportunity on the boundary before Ramsey returns.

Hope he’s ready in 2024 especially if we move on from Howard…..

I’m expecting our secondary to create some turnovers against Jones and Young in the coming weeks.

 

[dougb123]

Seems like it's a bit old school coaching from Fangio vs new wave coaching from McDaniels on how they handle the 2 rookies Cam Smith, Devon Achane. Fangio seems to be more interested in getting some scheme he thought up working than coming up with a scheme that fits the players he has. There no consistence pressure from the defensive line and when there have some success their 3rd down zone gives up a 1st down and down the field they go. This bend but don't break, bends so much it's away's breaking.

There really is no excuse for the defense to play this way.
We spend 103mil change on defense and 94mil change on offense.
He needs to make this work, can't say at the end of season he didn't have his players.

Get Cam Smith on the field so he is ready for end of season and come up with a better plan to cover Stefon Diggs.

 

[Mach2]

First and second round busts?

None, compared with the successes.

The only 2 clear first round misses are Charles Harris and Noah. And I think Black Ice is currently starting for Detroit (or at least playing a lot).

Tua
Austin
Tunsil
Minkah
Wilkins
Waddle
Phillips
Hunt
Holland

You must be kidding me, that you think an inordinate amount of his 1st and 2nd round picks are busts.

There you go again. Confusing ppl with accurate information.......

 

[1972forever]

Seems like it's a bit old school coaching from Fangio vs new wave coaching from McDaniels on how they handle the 2 rookies Cam Smith, Devon Achane. Fangio seems to be more interested in getting some scheme he thought up working than coming up with a scheme that fits the players he has. There no consistence pressure from the defensive line and when there have some success their 3rd down zone gives up a 1st down and down the field they go. This bend but don't break, bends so much it's away's breaking.

There really is no excuse for the defense to play this way.
We spend 103mil change on defense and 94mil change on offense.
He needs to make this work, can't say at the end of season he didn't have his players.

Get Cam Smith on the field so he is ready for end of season and come up with a better plan to cover Stefon Diggs.

Actually he doesn’t have his players. Elliott was signed after Fangio was hired and has played well at safety. Unfortunately he was on the inactive list again the Bills due to injury.

Ramsey was added to the roster after Fangio was hired but he has been on IR since preseason and won’t return for several more weeks.

Long was signed in free agency and so far he has been a major disappointment IMO.

Supposedly it was Fangio who convince AVG to return this season and so far AVG has been the best player on defense when he has been on the field.

Otherwise the rest of the starters on defense are all players who Fangio inherited on a defense that was so bad last year, the previous DC was fired.

I just don’t believe there is much talent on the defense and no DC would have success with the players they have at this time. Fangio obviously gets the blame because he is the DC but he isn’t on the field missing tackles or getting blown off the LOS on running plays. That’s the players on the field and many of them just aren’t good enough.

 

[dougb123]

It just doesn't matter there is no 2 or 3 years to work this out. Unit needs to be ready to go this year, he was supposed to be an upgrade over Josh Boyer and he so far is worse. At least Boyer had an excuse with as many DB's that were hurt.

Fangio did have a couple decent moments so far but the concept needs to change, we need more stops. 2 high safety look isn't looking so well.

 

[kingfin23]

He's probably the best we have since Fangio looking like a bust.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

Actually he doesn’t have his players. Elliott was signed after Fangio was hired and has played well at safety. Unfortunately he was on the inactive list again the Bills due to injury.

Ramsey was added to the roster after Fangio was hired but he has been on IR since preseason and won’t return for several more weeks.

Long was signed in free agency and so far he has been a major disappointment IMO.

Supposedly it was Fangio who convince AVG to return this season and so far AVG has been the best player on defense when he has been on the field.

Otherwise the rest of the starters on defense are all players who Fangio inherited on a defense that was so bad last year, the previous DC was fired.

I just don’t believe there is much talent on the defense and no DC would have success with the players they have at this time. Fangio obviously gets the blame because he is the DC but he isn’t on the field missing tackles or getting blown off the LOS on running plays. That’s the players on the field and many of them just aren’t good enough.

Don't disagree, but I think you've taken that too far. There IS talent on the D and I suspect some of the ~15 players getting significant snaps he inherited on D ARE fits to VF's scheme. How many is a legitimate debate, but I doubt NONE are a fit.

 

[Ryan1973]

It just doesn't matter there is no 2 or 3 years to work this out. Unit needs to be ready to go this year, he was supposed to be an upgrade over Josh Boyer and he so far is worse. At least Boyer had an excuse with as many DB's that were hurt.

Fangio did have a couple decent moments so far but the concept needs to change, we need more stops. 2 high safety look isn't looking so well.

At least Boyer played an aggressive style defense even though he had some boneheaded calls like that 3rd and forever in the Chargers game last year where they gave up a touchdown right before the half. Fangio has a passive defense which I can't stand. They are hardly ever in attack mode and don't strike fear in opposing offenses at all.