Are we TRYING to run the ball?

[Finfansince1971]

I think that running the ball is a mindset. You have to decide that you are going to do it and stick to it. I understand that we have the bigger run blocking type O-lineman.

(from SI)

"That's thanks to Houck, who always favored those big, area-blocking linemen he had clearing the way for Emmitt Smith in Dallas. "He tells us we're in a heavyweight fight," says center Rex Hadnot. "He says the big guy will wear the smaller guy down. That's what we want to do -- wear 'em down, break their will."

I've been told that we simply could not run against the Steelers and so did not try. But I know that most O-lineman will tell you that run blocking is easier then pass blocking and the Steelers have a great rush against the pass also.

Running wears a defense down and keeps yours off the field. It also shows up in bad weather. I remember too many years when Dan would tear up the NFL the first 3/4's of the season then we would have to play in bad weather and lose.

I've been told that we simply cannot do it. But the Steelers have for 15 years (Cowher's time) and they have won more games during that time then anyone else. Is it luck or have the Steeler's TRIED to run.

If you do not run early you cannot run late, even to hold on to a lead. I hate going into a "shotgun" on 3rd and 1 yard to keep a drive alive. Against the Steelers we had a 3rd and 2 yards with 6:23 left and even though they were in a passing defense we tried a fake fullback handoff and then a "tricky" pitch out to R.Brown.

I tape and rewatch all the games and on that play the Steelers had 2 guys coming off each corner to try to sack Culpepper. A run up the middle would have gotten a first down.

Did loseing R.Williams mean that we cannot run anymore? Are we now a "pass first" offense. I do not understand how the pass can REALLY set up the run. Not like the run can set up the pass. There are no play action runs. However, we did try some. Like on the first play, Culpepper stood up, faked like he was going to pass and then handed the ball off.

I looked at the play by play and the Steelers did not run the ball well at all either at the beginning, they simply stuck with it.

 

[Dphins]

MM is quick to abandon the run I remember the first couple of games Linehan abandoned the run in the red Zone. I can only hope that Nick will straighten MM out. I saw every game Buffallo played the last couple of years and MM will always talk about being physical but is very quick to give up on the run.

 

[Brown42000]

They tried to run it but give up very fast if it doesn't work.

 

[Phanatical]

I think that running the ball is a mindset. You have to decide that you are going to do it and stick to it. I understand that we have the bigger run blocking type O-lineman.

(from SI)

"That's thanks to Houck, who always favored those big, area-blocking linemen he had clearing the way for Emmitt Smith in Dallas. "He tells us we're in a heavyweight fight," says center Rex Hadnot. "He says the big guy will wear the smaller guy down. That's what we want to do -- wear 'em down, break their will."

I've been told that we simply could not run against the Steelers and so did not try. But I know that most O-lineman will tell you that run blocking is easier then pass blocking and the Steelers have a great rush against the pass also.

Running wears a defense down and keeps yours off the field. It also shows up in bad weather. I remember too many years when Dan would tear up the NFL the first 3/4's of the season then we would have to play in bad weather and lose.

I've been told that we simply cannot do it. But the Steelers have for 15 years (Cowher's time) and they have won more games during that time then anyone else. Is it luck or have the Steeler's TRIED to run.

If you do not run early you cannot run late, even to hold on to a lead. I hate going into a "shotgun" on 3rd and 1 yard to keep a drive alive. Against the Steelers we had a 3rd and 2 yards with 6:23 left and even though they were in a passing defense we tried a fake fullback handoff and then a "tricky" pitch out to R.Brown.

I tape and rewatch all the games and on that play the Steelers had 2 guys coming off each corner to try to sack Culpepper. A run up the middle would have gotten a first down.

Did loseing R.Williams mean that we cannot run anymore? Are we now a "pass first" offense. I do not understand how the pass can REALLY set up the run. Not like the run can set up the pass. There are no play action runs. However, we did try some. Like on the first play, Culpepper stood up, faked like he was going to pass and then handed the ball off.

I looked at the play by play and the Steelers did not run the ball well at all either at the beginning, they simply stuck with it.

I thought they gave up the run a little too fast, although I would hate to go back to JJ ball, run it, run it, run it and punt.

 

[cltchperf]

Miami was running the ball up until the secondary broke down and allowed the 87 yard play by Heath Miller. It was that pass play by the Steelers that really hurt Miami. The reason the steelers ran was becasue of the time, they had time and when they scored, Miami only had 5 minutes left, and it wasn't too long before Culpepper threw an Int. After that the Steelers ran the ball because they obviously wanted to run out as much time as possible. Miami has to pass on the last posession because of little time left, but for the most part they did continiue running for most of the game until the last minutes of the game, because they were running short on time and were behind after the big play whereas, Miami got behind with little time from the situation.

 

[LoneWulF]

if the secondary doesnt give up the 80 yard touchdown, we win, daunte is amazing, and mularkey called a great game. the run wasnt there, and mularky felt he was attacking a weakness in the steelers defense

 

[Finfansince1971]

Miami was running the ball up until the secondary broke down and allowed the 87 yard play by Heath Miller. It was that pass play by the Steelers that really hurt Miami. The reason the steelers ran was becasue of the time, they had time and when they scored, Miami only had 5 minutes left, and it wasn't too long before Culpepper threw an Int. After that the Steelers ran the ball because they obviously wanted to run out as much time as possible. Miami has to pass on the last posession because of little time left, but for the most part they did continiue running for most of the game until the last minutes of the game, because they were running short on time and were behind after the big play whereas, Miami got behind with little time from the situation.

At that point the Steelers had already ran 29 times and we only 14. The reason that their play action pass worked was that we were looking for the run. And our defense had been on the field 10 minutes longer.

Last year we ran well but only passed for 54.8%, lowest in the NFL. If we had run the same offense but had passed for 60%, we could have been 12-4. If we try this year to run as well as last year, and simply pass better, we will win a lot more games and have a chance in the poor weather of play off time..

Haveing to pass on 3rd and 1 yard is not the way to win if want to get to the play-offs. But running is a process and passing "seems" easy. If you watch Sports Center they show TD passes but they do not show the bad passes (unless they are ran back for TD's). Four things can happen when you pass and 3 of them are bad (incompletes, sacks and interceptions). You need a balance of running and passing.

I also do not like short passes. If you need 11 yards for a first down why throw a 4 yard pass? If you do not have a chance at a 13 yard completion, try a 45 yard one. Then if you throw a interception it is like a punt. A 6 yard out pass has to be thrown 41 yards and can be easily jumped by a CB and taken back for a TD.

I know you need a mix of long, short and medium passes. If you need to check off, do it on 2nd down, not 3rd or 4th. If it is early in the game and the score is semi even, do not take big chances. But if you are behind, take every chance you need to.

If you need a first down or you will lose, try for it. You might have a 90% chance of completeing a 4 yard pass but then only a 6% chance of makeing a first down. I'd rather try a 13 yard pass with a 30% chance of a completion and a 100% chance of makeing a first down.

I think R.Brown is a excellent RB. But a RB and a O-Line needs to be run 25 plus times to get in the groove and to wear down the defense.

To me relying on the pass too much is like a basketball team that relies on the 3-point shot. Sometimes it simply does not fall. However the team that works the ball in also has a better chance of winning every game. Lay ups always work. And basketball is played inside. I've also played a lot outside where the wind can change a 3 point shot by 2 feet. Yet I've seen people throw up 12 just to make 2 of them. I hate running all the way down just to have some ego driven jerk throw up a brick.

And most football is still played outside. I think any NFL team that is up north is nuts to build a dome. It might be more "cozy" for the fans but your team loses a great, end of the year plus.

We finally have a good QB AND a good RB so we should use them smart. Marino could never win it all on his own and I doubt Culpepper can.

One reason I would have ran more against the Steelers is that Culpepper looked tired. His passes had little zip to them and a number were thrown short. He admits that he is still not 100% so why put 100% of the game of his shoulders?

 

[Phanatical]

Finsfansince1971: Excellent post!!!!!

 

[MastR_EvaluatoR]

Running wears a defense down and keeps yours off the field.

How can it be when your stuffed for no gain running the ball on 1st and 2nd down only to lead to an incomplete pass on third and long when their defense knows you have to pass ?

If anything, running the ball all the time will lead to more three and outs for this offense, putting our defense on the field way too much..

I still say for this offense, we should pass to set up the run later in games.. Run later more in the 2nd half when our big O-line can do more damage against a winded defense.. Pittsburgh won the super bowl with this gameplan. They passed in the first half then led the league in rushing attampts for 2nd halves last season because they ran ran ran teams into the ground when they were tired consuming long drives.

 

[Simone007]

How can it be when your stuffed for no gain running the ball on 1st and 2nd down only to lead to an incomplete pass on third and long when their defense knows you have to pass ?

If anything, running the ball all the time will lead to more three and outs for this offense, putting our defense on the field way too much..

I still say for this offense, we should pass to set up the run later in games.. Run later more in the 2nd half when our big O-line can do more damage against a winded defense.. Pittsburgh won the super bowl with this gameplan. They passed in the first half then led the league in rushing attampts for 2nd halves last season because they ran ran ran teams into the ground when they were tired consuming long drives.

You're wrong: passing does not open the run, while running opens up the passing game

 

[SarahAnn]

You're wrong: passing does not open the run, while running opens up the passing game

It all depends on the team. A team with a QB who can throw the long ball very well will be played somewhat off opening up the short game/run game. A good run game just forces teams to focus more in the box.

 

[MastR_EvaluatoR]

You're wrong: passing does not open the run, while running opens up the passing game

No, you're wrong.. Because Both work effectively, but depending on personnel.. For your information, when you spread the ball passing it spreads a defense allowing you to run without 8 men in the box. It softens up a defense to run more later..

Heck, Bill Cowher himself said this last season, and I think he knows a thing or two about football.. The steelers passed 40% more time in the 1st half than in the 2nd half last season combined, and won the super bowl.. Do yourself a favor and get gametapes of the Colts and Denver games in the playoffs and see what Pittsburgh did passing early in those games and early in downs. They passed when teams expected the run . Then later in the games they ran down their throats after defenses were tired out...

The steelers did that ALL season long , especially during their winning streak when they passed even more early in games and early on downs compared to the start of the season.. Nuff said.

And let me add this fact .. The "West Coast offense" has been around for decades.. That offense is a prime example of passing to set up the run . Teams have won super bowls with this philosophy, the 49'ers practically invented it in the 80's . They passed early, and still had perennial 1300+ yard rushers like Roger Craig ultimately winning multiple super bowls . Joe Montana and Steve Young lived, thrived and won championships by passing to set up the run.. So I dont know how you can say passing can't set up the run.. It's a ridiculous and untrue statement ..

 

[Awsi Dooger]

At that point the Steelers had already ran 29 times and we only 14. The reason that their play action pass worked was that we were looking for the run. And our defense had been on the field 10 minutes longer.

Last year we ran well but only passed for 54.8%, lowest in the NFL. If we had run the same offense but had passed for 60%, we could have been 12-4. If we try this year to run as well as last year, and simply pass better, we will win a lot more games and have a chance in the poor weather of play off time..

Having to pass on 3rd and 1 yard is not the way to win if want to get to the play-offs. But running is a process and passing "seems" easy. If you watch Sports Center they show TD passes but they do not show the bad passes (unless they are ran back for TD's). Four things can happen when you pass and 3 of them are bad (incompletes, sacks and interceptions). You need a balance of running and passing.

I also do not like short passes. If you need 11 yards for a first down why throw a 4 yard pass? If you do not have a chance at a 13 yard completion, try a 45 yard one. Then if you throw a interception it is like a punt. A 6 yard out pass has to be thrown 41 yards and can be easily jumped by a CB and taken back for a TD.

I know you need a mix of long, short and medium passes. If you need to check off, do it on 2nd down, not 3rd or 4th. If it is early in the game and the score is semi even, do not take big chances. But if you are behind, take every chance you need to.

If you need a first down or you will lose, try for it. You might have a 90% chance of completeing a 4 yard pass but then only a 6% chance of makeing a first down. I'd rather try a 13 yard pass with a 30% chance of a completion and a 100% chance of makeing a first down.

I think R.Brown is a excellent RB. But a RB and a O-Line needs to be run 25 plus times to get in the groove and to wear down the defense.

To me relying on the pass too much is like a basketball team that relies on the 3-point shot. Sometimes it simply does not fall. However the team that works the ball in also has a better chance of winning every game. Lay ups always work. And basketball is played inside. I've also played a lot outside where the wind can change a 3 point shot by 2 feet. Yet I've seen people throw up 12 just to make 2 of them. I hate running all the way down just to have some ego driven jerk throw up a brick.

Excellent post. Those are themes I've tried to emphasize here. The only thing I disagree with is the 12-4 last year. We didn't threaten 12-4 talent regardless of the pass completion percentage.

You have to rack up rushing attempts early in the game. There's always the typical extreme reaction, "well why don't we run it EVERY time?" but that's just a backlash against accepting the statistical reality that running the ball early and often is vital to success. It's amusing when JJ is criticed for run-run-pass-punt. That's beautiful football. It has a chance to succeed, unlike pass-pass-pass.

I've been a Dolphin fan since the late '60s and frankly I'm amazed at all the Marino avatars and user names and sigs around here. That was garbage football, destined to fail. Thank god the Canes surged at exactly the same time frame.

Like you, I despise the shotgun or finesse formations especially on 3rd and short. Get in a damn 2-back and run a basic play. You're better off in the long run even if it fails. When Pittsburgh is running the ball play after play that positively impacts the remainder of the game even if they do nothing but punt in the early going. Right now we have a down the field quarterback so it's even more ridiculous not to utilize the running game from the outset. That may sound contradictory but you get the big plays and higher yardage per attempt only if the opposition respects your running game. You think there's any chance that play by Pittsburgh busts for 87 yards if they had run the ball 14 times up to that point? Ha. We'd have been playing back and not respecting their running game at all. Plus your defensive front is much fresher and more snarly aggressive if the opponent does nothing but finesse pass block all game. It was really shocking when Pittsburgh started smacking Culpepper around and forcing turnovers at the end, after we spent all game throwing the football.

The short passing game is ignorance. I'll just sum it up with that and anyone who wants to argue can be wrong. A short pass violates both aspects of "run the ball often, pass the ball well." It pretends a short pass is the equivalent of a physical running play, and it naturally lessens your yards per attempt. Any NFL offensive coordinator who relies on a heavy does of short passes should be dropped from the highest cloud. A splat is more of a contribution to the planet than their brainpower.

BTW, I loved the basketball reference. I remember predicting in '86 when the colleges adopted the 3-point shot that the primary impact would be it would destroy the USA in terms of international play. Our one advantage was we played basic basketball without the reliance on the wimpy gimmick 3 point shot. Once we started using that garbage on the college level you've got 2 or 3 guys who do nothing but look at their toes and make sure they are behind an arbitrary line. Moving without the ball and crashing the boards and making plays inside is a lost art. The NBA is OK since the 3 point shot is further out and not abused, but the college game is a shell of what it was. Exciting? Ten blind drunks stumbling onto themselves while "running" the 100 meters can be exciting. My favorite is when a guy gets a rebound underneath then passes or dribbles it out. :sidelol:

Big coincidence that we flopped in the '88 Olympics then by '92 we had to resort to NBA players on the international level.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

No, you're wrong.. Because Both work effectively, but depending on personnel.. For your information, when you spread the ball passing it spreads a defense allowing you to run without 8 men in the box. It softens up a defense to run more later..

Heck, Bill Cowher himself said this last season, and I think he knows a thing or two about football.. The steelers passed 40% more time in the 1st half than in the 2nd half last season combined, and won the super bowl.. Do yourself a favor and get gametapes of the Colts and Denver games in the playoffs and see what Pittsburgh did passing early in those games and early in downs. They passed when teams expected the run . Then later in the games they ran down their throats after defenses were tired out...

The steelers did that ALL season long , especially during their winning streak when they passed even more early in games and early on downs compared to the start of the season.. Nuff said.

And let me add this fact .. The "West Coast offense" has been around for decades.. That offense is a prime example of passing to set up the run . Teams have won super bowls with this philosophy, the 49'ers practically invented it in the 80's . They passed early, and still had perennial 1300+ yard rushers like Roger Craig ultimately winning multiple super bowls . Joe Montana and Steve Young lived, thrived and won championships by passing to set up the run.. So I dont know how you can say passing can't set up the run.. It's a ridiculous and untrue statement ..

Do you realize what examples you are using? Roethlisberger has the highest yards per attempt of any QB in history his first two years, 8.9 each time. Likewise, Montana and Young are stratospheric in that regard. For the real world the strategy doesn't work that way. I have charted rushing attempts since 1987 and if you think it's not vital to rack up rushes in the first half you are flat wrong.

Again, look at the example you are using. Pittsburgh led the league in rushing attempts last season. It's normal for a team to run the ball more in the second half than the first half if it is a winning team. But you cannot pretend a paltry number of rushing attempts in the first half is suitable.

You know, your 40% stat in regard to Pittsburgh passing more in the first half sounds decisive. I'm sure it could fool the vast majority of people on this board. "Wow, they were a passing team in the first half!" But I'm not one of them. Let's break it down and see how it works out. BTW, I have the actual stats at work, not with me, so even if I'm skeptical it was a full 40% I'll accept it here, especially at this hour.

Pittsburgh passed 23.7 times per game last season and averaged 34.3 rushing attempts. With your 40% difference, it basically means they were a 50/50 run-pass team in the first half then a heavy percentage of runs in the second half. So don't try to pretend they won the Super Bowl with a pass happy offense in the first half. It was balanced. I'd love for the Dolphins to be balanced. We are anything but balanced in our road games, especially early in the season last year and last Thursday against Pittsburgh.

And you're acting like the Steelers threw the ball heavily down the stretch and in the playoffs. Ha! They started winning when they decreased their pass attempts. In the last four games of the regular season, Pittsburgh threw the ball 20,15, 21 and 16 times. In the playoffs they threw the ball 21, 24, 29, 22. That's virtually identical to the regular season average of 23.7. It's true there was more passing in the first half than second half and on early downs, but again it was balanced in the first half, not a throw-fest. Then in the second half they ran heavily and ended up with no fewer than 33 rushes in any playoff game, with a playoff average of 35.5 rushes.

 

[slyfox13]

MM is quick to abandon the run I remember the first couple of games Linehan abandoned the run in the red Zone. I can only hope that Nick will straighten MM out. I saw every game Buffallo played the last couple of years and MM will always talk about being physical but is very quick to give up on the run.

fear not nick will straiten out mm just like he did with linehan last yr. Im interested to see how long nick lets mm set in the box instead of being on the side line? He made linehan get down there last yr and be accountable for his calls. maybe thats what nick meant when he said recently there was miscommunication in the steelers game??????:wink: