Baseball HOF - what's the point?

[DirkForever]

I will preface this by saying I went to a Giants game for my honeymoon because I was as poor as poop. Went to several Giants and Dodgers games when I lived in LA, and Bonds always came over to wave, say hi, tip his hat, you know just being like every other player.
I do not know when the baseball writers got to vote on HOF entrance. That always seemed kinda weird. I gave up on the HOF about 15 years ago when it seemed apparent that it didn't capture history, but instead turned into some weird hall of alternate universe existence. Too bad. Wish I had a reason to visit but in my opinion it has caved to peer pressure and no longer entices me to see any of it. It has been for a long time Too bad. It once had meaning. Over the past several years it just became meaningless.
I am not trying to start a flame war. We all have valid opinions on this. It's just sort of cherry picking nowadays anyway. Sadly, like almost all of these hallowed sports halls. Stuck in a universe that no longer exists and does not know how to handle it.

Go Fins!

 

[Crump]

Yeah the HOF in baseball is kind of wacky. IM sure there are double digit guys in the HOF that juiced. Even Ortiz had rumors swirling around him.

Bonds pretty much had a HOF trajectory before he started juicing. The thing is, I believe bball was fading out until the juice ball era of McGwire, Sosa, then Bonds hit. That got people watching again, then someone as dominant as Clemons. I was a Cardinals fan, so i grew up on Whiteyball, but man when we signed McGwire, i made sure i didnt miss a game, you just wanted to see how far he would hit it.

Its like one comedian, i think Bill Burr, joked about, let them all take steroids, its entertainment, you want to see these massive monsters crushing everything and everyone.

But yeah baseball would've probably fizzled out alot (not that it would ever disappear) had it not been for the mid-late 90s. Hell Molina should be a first ballet HOF'er come his time, and I've never sat and watched a game just because i wanted to see Molina catch, no espn broadcast has ever cut away from "regularly scheduled programming" to show Molina gun someone out at 2nd or a snap throw to first to catch a runner sleeping.

 

[DirkForever]

Excellent point. Baseball was dying. Fans were not going to games. Chatter on the radio and tv were almost gone. So let us (meaning the shady crooks in the room wearing darkglasses so they cannot be identified) just look the other way while we know it is, BS. If it pads my hand with silver, I am all in!

 

[BobDole]

Until they rectify the Pete Rose situation, baseball HOF is and will remain a joke. Plus they have no legs to stand on by keeping the best player in baseball history out of the hall when other juicers are already in. Used to love baseball. Now it just puts me to sleep.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

It's real simple, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, and Sammy Sosa shouldn't have comically juiced to the point that they look like inflatable balloon cartoon characters and maybe they wouldn't have had trouble getting into the Hall of Fame.

Pete Rose is a tough call. I think the key point with Rose is that -- according to absolutely every testimony I've read -- he never actually bet against the Reds. I think at some point you have to bury the hatchet and accept that he's taken his punishment. If he had bet against his team and you have evidence, then obvious ban for life, but I think that's a key distinction.

 

[Orange Fin Bad]

It's real simple, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, and Sammy Sosa shouldn't have comically juiced to the point that they look like inflatable balloon cartoon characters and maybe they wouldn't have had trouble getting into the Hall of Fame.

Pete Rose is a tough call. I think the key point with Rose is that -- according to absolutely every testimony I've read -- he never actually bet against the Reds. I think at some point you have to bury the hatchet and accept that he's taken his punishment. If he had bet against his team and you have evidence, then obvious ban for life, but I think that's a key distinction.

Those were not the only players juicing that much. Ortiz was on the juice big time and he couldn't even play the field. The guy got in because all of those pencil necked geeks who vote just adored him and he said "This is our ****ing city" after a minor terrorist attack at some minor "sporting" event in Boston.

The geeks are mad at Bonds because they feel he didn't treat them like they were one of the guys. It is really that simple. A HOF that is determined by the type of dweebs isn't really a HOF. A true HOF would exist because current members select who is worthy of joining them.

Harold Baines was a really good player. He wasn't even close to Barry Bonds. Baines was not even close to being borderline worthy of the Hall, but got in. It has become a joke. "Big Papi" wasn't even the best hitter in that Boston lineup. He couldn't play the field at all. To get in as a DH should require Edgar Martinez type production.

Barry Bonds was the best player in baseball when he was with the Pirates. When he started juicing he became the greatest player ever. So, if someone wanted to argue that he isn't really the greatest player ever, fine. But, not a HOF'er? Please. I've been watching baseball for a long time. Bonds is still the best player I have seen play and that is considering the non-juiced Bonds. He was an incredible talent in Pittsburgh. His raw talent was comparable to Jaun Soto. Just an incredible ball player.

Sosa I would say is not a HOF'er only because he wasn't great before the juicing and frankly other than that really fun HR chase season with Big Mac, he didn't really accomplish anything truly remarkable. His stats are all inflated and if you trim them down to what they might have been without the juice, he just isn't good enough. Sosa also corked his bat.

I wouldn't eliminate anyone from consideration for juicing. So many players did it and I guarantee a bunch are already in. It was part of the game and MLB kinda pushed for it. If I know a guy was juicing it could be a factor, but when the production is overwhelming and the players impact on the game is substantial, there is no reason to keep them out of the HOF.

As for Rose, he is an obvious HOF'er. The guy was and always will be "Hit King." If he were a borderline HOF'er, then yeah, the gambling is too much of a tarnish to consider him. But, enough already. Everyone knows about gambling now. Gambling is mainstream and not seedy underworld behavior. Obviously, you want to protect the integrity of the game, but Rose is a HOF'er.

As far as him betting on his own team and him not betting against them, it doesn't make it ok. Him betting on his own team would still influence how he manages the games. If he bets on his own team in the regular season he is obviously going to treat it as a must win game, like it is a playoff game. You don't manage regular season games in a 162 game season that way. For instance, you might be winning a game 3-2 and because you bet on your team, you turn to your best reliever when the correct thing to do would be saving that pitcher because of future schedule. There are only certain regular season games that you go into must win mode and treat it like there is no tomorrow. It is a long season. If he is betting on his own team it influences his decisions and how he manages the games. It hurts the integrity of the sport. Not as much as betting against his team, but it obviously influences things. Still, it is not something that should be keeping him out of the HOF.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

Sure, I'm fine with Barry Bonds being in the Hall of Fame. I just don't really care on account of the juicing, and I think that if he cared that much, he shouldn't have taken so much HGH that his head expanded to look like a flotation device.

I think a lot of the issues with the baseball HOF stem from the fact that sportswriters are dumbasses and shouldn't be allowed to vote on anything. And I mean anything.

 

[Adam Strange]

Sosa doesn’t belong anywhere near the Hall. And if we’re ignoring people’s cheating and just going by the numbers, someone like Palmeiro deserves to be in and he’s never spoken about.

Baseball can do what it wants to do, but don’t expect me to believe that it’s just a coincidence that in the entire history of baseball, aside from a small window in the late 90s through early 2000s, only two men hit even 60 home runs in a season, but in that window everyone and their brother was hitting 50+ homers and the biggest juicers were crushing the 60 HR barrier. We’re supposed to pretend that these guys didn’t cheat, and even worse, that the records they set are legitimate when everyone knows that they’ll never be broken by someone who isn’t cheating.