Ben Solak, The Ringer: Why Tua Is Playing Amazing And Why It Won’t Last
- Thread starter AquaHawk
- Start date
This offense is more explosive than any of shanahan's offense in the past. The combination of Tua, hill & waddle makes this **** generational. The only offense you can compare it to is the rams w Warner, Faulk, bruce & holt. Enjoy it boys & girls, Miami has never seen anything like this in the last 40 years other then Marino's greatest season where he threw for 50 tds.
Crazy how analysts are so caught up on traits these days. The number 2 guy on the EPA chart he shows was one of the most physically limited QBs of all time when you consider his age and the injuries he had suffered throughout his career.
What did Manning have? Elite processing, accuracy, timing, decision making and surrounding talent. Sound familiar?
What did Manning have? Elite processing, accuracy, timing, decision making and surrounding talent. Sound familiar?
Mello Yello
Club Member
We've definitely seen this offense avoid the deep shots in favor of intermediate throws and most of those are going across the middle. It makes sense to say this offense is tailored to Tua's abilities and the video lays that out well.
I'm wondering how the better defenses are going to corral this. We know at some point teams are going to adjust. I'm not sure what that is going to look like. Maybe the safeties are going to start sitting on the underneath (intermediate) routes, daring Tua to throw over the top? Maybe we'll see LBers purposefully let the play-fakes go?
It'll be interesting because I don't know that there's a better offense for Tua. On the one hand, it's going great. Tua's ability to let it rip is probably his biggest strength. But will he at some point pay for that? Maybe that doesn't happen until Tyreek is gone? Who knows. At this point we haven't seen anyone really stop Miami aside from Minkah & the Steelers.
Maybe that's what'll take--a superstar FS to get in Tua's head and make him start thinking more? It is an interesting question just how DCs will adjust to this as time goes by. Miami's ripping off chunk yardage, but they're doing it in the same sorts of windows over and over. You've gotta figure that'll be something DCs can eventually clamp down on.
I'm wondering how the better defenses are going to corral this. We know at some point teams are going to adjust. I'm not sure what that is going to look like. Maybe the safeties are going to start sitting on the underneath (intermediate) routes, daring Tua to throw over the top? Maybe we'll see LBers purposefully let the play-fakes go?
It'll be interesting because I don't know that there's a better offense for Tua. On the one hand, it's going great. Tua's ability to let it rip is probably his biggest strength. But will he at some point pay for that? Maybe that doesn't happen until Tyreek is gone? Who knows. At this point we haven't seen anyone really stop Miami aside from Minkah & the Steelers.
Maybe that's what'll take--a superstar FS to get in Tua's head and make him start thinking more? It is an interesting question just how DCs will adjust to this as time goes by. Miami's ripping off chunk yardage, but they're doing it in the same sorts of windows over and over. You've gotta figure that'll be something DCs can eventually clamp down on.
Mello Yello
Club Member
*meant to say there's *not* a better offense for Tua
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2005
- Messages
- 4,413
- Reaction score
- 11,731
Wait….There is no way this kid ever even played football at the Pop Warner level. And to his point about the Dolphins NFL offense not lasting…What ****ing offense does last? I mean for **** sake….The Bills offense didn’t last half a year….Josh Allen is now handing out picks like he’s Monty Hall. Probably the stupidest video I’ve ever watched.
Mello Yello
Club Member
I've watched people cry for the next Dan Marino for 20 years. Fans talk about wanting a QB they can root for over the next 10-15 years. That seems to be what most define as a "franchise" player, a multi-contract guy who they don't have to even think about and who can be a fixture for a decade plus.
I don't think anybody wants to view Tua as a temporary highlight who the Dolphins will be looking to move on from the way the Falcons did with Ryan, the Rams did with Goff, the Chiefs did with Alex Smith, the Seahawks did with Wilson, the Lions did with Stafford, or the 49ers are trying to with Garoppolo and the Titans are trying to do with Tannehill in favor of Lance and Willis, respectively.
I think there are 2 groups of fans who are talking past each other. There are fans who want a QB for the next 15 years and fans who want to cheer that Tua's the most efficient QB in 2022 and are happy to surround that in isolation.
"The QB question," the issue of finding a franchise guy, has historically been about finding a long-term answer who can be successful independent of offensive scheme--someone who can evolve regardless of who the WRs are and whether the running game is there or not. That was true of Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers, etc. It's now true of Mahomes as well.
The debate seems not to be about the immediate success of the 2022 offense but of whether Tua is the type of guy who could go handle any sort of offense and who'd be successful if (or when) Tyreek/Waddle were to go down with an ACL or something horrible.
It's certainly fine to "live in the now," but these days a lot of football fans draw their inspiration from seeking out a deeper understanding of what is sustainable and what isn't. That can be seen as pessimistic or not sufficiently celebratory.
I think the argument about whether you're "for" or "against" Tua is kind of stupid. We've obviously seen he can play as well as any of the mid-tier guys. That was true even last year. He was good on 3rd down and in the red zone then, too.
But I think it's possible to be happy and critical at the same time.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2003
- Messages
- 16,442
- Reaction score
- 44,138
In the long run, the way you stop teams from sitting on your intermediate routes is you continue to run the ball often enough to freeze the LBs and you have to throw deep enough to put the fear of SPEED into the safeties...
So mix it up...
Like we did last Sunday when we didn't throw to Hill and Waddle much.
Cleveland tried to corral those two and we beat them with running the ball and a lot of looks to the third, fourth, and fifth options.
So mix it up...
Like we did last Sunday when we didn't throw to Hill and Waddle much.
Cleveland tried to corral those two and we beat them with running the ball and a lot of looks to the third, fourth, and fifth options.
Mello Yello
Club Member
I think a lot of you guys who expect nothing but praise also have to keep in mind that 24yo QBs are not ever expected to be or seen as smart / savy the way 35yo veterans are.
The only way for a 24yo QB to really gain praise is to do outstanding physical things. Whether it be by arm talent (e.g. Mahomes, Allen, etc.), whether it's by running (e.g. Jackson, Fields, etc.) or whether it's by scrambling (e.g. Murray, Wilson, etc.), it's typically a physical trait that earns early attention and respect.
I think one could argue Tua doesn't really have the arm, the running or the scrambling and thus probably won't ever get credit for being as influential as he is to the success of his team until such time that it's more traditional to view him as a "veteran" player with "veteran savy."
Tua could be lights out for the rest of the year and win the Super Bowl...there's still nothing besides indirect outcomes (i.e. offensive stats & winning) which you could really use to defend him. And unfortunately, in a world were you evaluate 24you QBs by physical traits and assume they always "still developing" you just aren't going to see people lump praise on Tua. He's too young for his own good in that respect.
I don't think Tua is going to get respect until he's no longer a "young QB."
Honestly...I think you guys are just barking up the wrong tree. The world's not going to change. People aren't going to be convinced by passing efficiency stats or even wins. They'll attribute those things to the coach, the team, the talent around Tua, etc.
The only way for a 24yo QB to really gain praise is to do outstanding physical things. Whether it be by arm talent (e.g. Mahomes, Allen, etc.), whether it's by running (e.g. Jackson, Fields, etc.) or whether it's by scrambling (e.g. Murray, Wilson, etc.), it's typically a physical trait that earns early attention and respect.
I think one could argue Tua doesn't really have the arm, the running or the scrambling and thus probably won't ever get credit for being as influential as he is to the success of his team until such time that it's more traditional to view him as a "veteran" player with "veteran savy."
Tua could be lights out for the rest of the year and win the Super Bowl...there's still nothing besides indirect outcomes (i.e. offensive stats & winning) which you could really use to defend him. And unfortunately, in a world were you evaluate 24you QBs by physical traits and assume they always "still developing" you just aren't going to see people lump praise on Tua. He's too young for his own good in that respect.
I don't think Tua is going to get respect until he's no longer a "young QB."
Honestly...I think you guys are just barking up the wrong tree. The world's not going to change. People aren't going to be convinced by passing efficiency stats or even wins. They'll attribute those things to the coach, the team, the talent around Tua, etc.
Mello Yello
Club Member
That's why I think it's paramount that the Dolphins start running the ball more consistently during the rest of the season in prep for the Play-offs. They have to get used to running the ball more regularly. Not everyone is going to be as easy to gash as the Browns were either.
I will be a much bigger fan when I see this offense do the hard things. If it can go to Buffalo and put up points that'll say a lot for me. If we get to the Play-offs and are still moving the ball as easily, I'll be very happy to see that.
As a battered Dolphins fan I'm always expecting the "better" or "tougher" teams to smash us in the mouth (at some point), LOL.
I trust Zim’s grade on this!
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2005
- Messages
- 4,413
- Reaction score
- 11,731
Thanks Doc.
Ben Solak on Tua, December 2021: “He is a quick, underneath passer. It's just how he plays.”
Ben Solak on Tua, December 2021: “The Dolphins made their bed when they drafted Tua; now they’re lying in it, with a 5-7 record and a 9 percent chance to make the playoffs.”
Ben Solak on the Dolphins offense, December 2021: “This is the problem with Miami’s offensive approach. It’s not that they should have drafted any differently—they did it the right way. It’s not that they should have brought in a different offensive coordinator—they’re building the offense the right way. It’s not that Tua has been uncharacteristically accurate or decisive these past few weeks—this is how he’s always played. It’s that this is all they are, and all they can be.”
Ben Solak on Tua, December 2021: “The Dolphins made their bed when they drafted Tua; now they’re lying in it, with a 5-7 record and a 9 percent chance to make the playoffs.”
Ben Solak on the Dolphins offense, December 2021: “This is the problem with Miami’s offensive approach. It’s not that they should have drafted any differently—they did it the right way. It’s not that they should have brought in a different offensive coordinator—they’re building the offense the right way. It’s not that Tua has been uncharacteristically accurate or decisive these past few weeks—this is how he’s always played. It’s that this is all they are, and all they can be.”