Bend but don't break

[ZOD]

Too many times I have witnessed that the masses (us) fall into the "stat trap". I've seen some scoff at the notion that Richard Seymour is a dominant defensive end. I've also seen all of us wonder how in the hell New England's defense rank so high with seemingly no star quality to it. This has told me that there is not a clear understanding amongst "the fans" of what team defense actually is.

Statistics do not tell the story behind defensive philosophy nor execution of that philosophy. All to often that is just too sublime for the average fan. It's just our nature to want the execution of a sack, interception, or other offensive loss. That circumstance lends itself to the old adage in NASCAR that fans come to see the big wreck.

I am certainly no authority on anything football. But I have read books by what are football authorities, the latest being one by the late Fritz Shurmur . In the book Coach Shurmur discusses the various alignments and assignments that he has employed throughout his years in the NFL. I consider him to be an authority on the 34 defense among the various alignments. With that in mind I would like to detail and discuss the 34 defense so that many of us will have a better understanding of what is before us as we watch teams employing the use of this defense in the coming year.

I really don't feel as though the board (as a whole) has a firm grasp upon the defense. This original post will only be a concise outline for further discussion. I'm no educator on the matter and hopefully some that have learned the defense or some that have questions will make this a lasting thread. With teams such as the Raiders adding their team to a list that includes our division rival New England already employing the alignment I think it will further the enjoyment of conversations for the coming year.

Fritz Shurmur-
The 34 defense we have played for many years is the epitome of the bend-but-don't-break theory. It has as it's roots patience, balance, simplicity, and efficiency. It is a balanced seven-man front. Three-deep zone is the most frequent pass coverage used. There is very little use of man-for-man coverage or of stunts and blitzes. Due to it's design, there is a minimum of exposure to a big play by the offense. The theory is that the defense will limit the offense to minimum gains. We always say that if the offense is going to score, make them put together a 15 play drive to do it. This is in the belief that not too many offensive teams are capable of that kind of efficiency very many times during a ball game. Nor are there many coaches who are willing to develope a plan to attack a defense with the patience required to be successful against this type of defensive scheme.

With that in mind, the BASE alignments.

Sam Linebacker- Outside shoulder of tight end.

Will Linebacker- 1.5 yards outside offensive tackle on line of scrimmage

Ends- Head up on offensive tackles and may line up on outside shoulder of tackle

Nose-Head up on offensive center

Mac Linebacker- Linebacker on tight end side lines up 4.5 yards from the line head up on offensive guard

Mike Linebacker- Linebacker on the side opposite the tight end 4.5 yards from the line head up on the offensive guard.

Strong safety- 4 yards outside the tight end 7 yards from the line of scrimmage

Free Safety- 10-12 yards deep over the offensive center

Corners- one yard outside the wide receiver seven yeards from the line

The three lineman (Nose, Defensive Ends) are two gappers meaning they have responsibilities in two gaps. This is a result of availibility of talent. Coaches have attempted to develope quicker linemen to no avail. The Nose has both sides of the center. The ends have the guard-tackle and tackle-tight end gaps. This is a contrast to a 4 down linemen one gap assignment defense. For statistical purposes the sack totals will suffer as a result of the two gap assignments.

The inside linebackers are expected to fill their assigned gaps based upon the call. If the lineman in front loses his gap they are also expected to fill that one. They are expected to fill the gap downhill at the line of scrimmage.

The outside linebackers have dual rolls versus the pass. They are expected to have the ability to rush the pass and also be able to cover in the flat. All linebackers are expected to limit the pass to the short zones. This leaves the linebacker susceptable to the off tackle play which they are incumbent to fill.

The defense has an easier roll against change-of-strength motion. The free safety and strong safety have essentially the same rolls. This defense employs the safety as a run forcer on the strong side most of the time.

The corners are primarily zone pass defenders.

The weaknesses of this defense?
Fritz Shurmur-
The areas where (the defense) fell short were lack of creating big-play opportunities for our defense, turnovers, and pressure on the quarterback.

 

[inFINSible]

The areas where (the defense) fell short were lack of creating big-play opportunities for our defense, turnovers, and pressure on the quarterback.

So the weakness of that defense is the strength of ours? I assume that the weakness of our D therefore is that they are more susceptible to the big play.

Is that we we try and keep it so vanilla (few blitzes and stunts) so that we are not further susceptible to the big gainer?

 

[ZOD]

So the weakness of that defense is the strength of ours? I assume that the weakness of our D therefore is that they are more susceptible to the big play.

Is that we we try and keep it so vanilla (few blitzes and stunts) so that we are not further susceptible to the big gainer?

I think so. :yes:

I've come to respect the methodical approach of the 34. New England has forced it upon me. :cry:

 

[Jimi]

I think so. :yes:

I've come to respect the methodical approach of the 34. New England has forced it upon me. :cry:

Ya i deffinatley respect it. But very few teams can do it. Imagine Miami in a 3-4, Chester and Zgonina(sp?) would have little to no role, and Bua, Moore and Jenkins would all be expected to contribute at LB some:eek: . IMO Moore is the only one who MIGHT be ready to start.

 

[DBoston80]

Our Defense...........vanilla????????? That is a huge understatment!!!!

Great post this should shed some light on defensive alignments and each players responsabilities...With the weak depth at LB..small lb's...and very good d-line talent..this defense would not work as well, incase anyone was wondering why we dont try it...

I would love to see us do some different things on defense but our blitzes are plain laughable!!! Although I did like the JT dropping into coverage stunt..

 

[inFINSible]

I think so. :yes:

I've come to respect the methodical approach of the 34. New England has forced it upon me. :cry:

So how do you beat it?

By quick throws from three step drops maybe? High percentage efficient passing?

Strong inside the tackles running game possibly?

A mixture of the two?? :hmmm:

 

[ZOD]

So how do you beat it?

By quick throws from three step drops maybe? High percentage efficient passing?

Strong inside the tackles running game possibly?

A mixture of the two?? :hmmm:

Just for conversation's sake....IMO

The misleading thing about most defenses is that if there are more linemen inside it's more difficult to run against. As I said, that's misleading. More LINEMEN at the line the more I would pound inside.

In contrast the more linebackers in the core with less linemen on the line (such as the 34) the more I would run off tackle. We face the 62 junkyard dog, 52 monster, and the 53 eagle and hawk defenses in little league. They are all eight man fronts but they tend to be linebacker heavy in the core. So our game plan is to run off tackle and pass in the flat until the outside linebacker widens. Once the linebacker widens we run in the middle.

In all leagues I think you prefer the matchup for the tackle to be made by a linebacker on the running back. While the 43 funnels the RB into the core or middle. The 34 has tight end to tight end covered by linebackers with the linebackers serving as the defensive end of the 43 (if you will).

Most high schools in my area have move to a 3-3-5 defense. They say it's for the passing game but I believe it's more related to the fact that they have more to choose from in the form of secondary and linebacker type players rather than linemen. Plain and simple it's just tough to find 250 pound players with the ability to stuff the run. If they do have that ability and size I think you would rather they play offensive guard to utilize them to get out on the linebackers. In the 33 they have replaced those outside linebackers on the tight end with strong safeties.

In short I guess what I'm saying is Linebackers are the key to stopping the run. In most defenses the linemen essentially are blockers for the linebackers to stay clean.

I tell my little league D tackles as a last resort (if you have lost position) cause a pile. I guess that tells you their usefulness.

 

[saves]

Ya i deffinatley respect it. But very few teams can do it. Imagine Miami in a 3-4, Chester and Zgonina(sp?) would have little to no role, and Bua, Moore and Jenkins would all be expected to contribute at LB some:eek: . IMO Moore is the only one who MIGHT be ready to start.

I disagree, if we were in a 3-4 I could see a lighter chester and perhaps Zgonina playing end, while Taylor would be a ouside backer.

We ran a 3-4 for my highschool team last year, and unless your constantly blitzing its very hard to get pressure on the Q. I perfer the 4-4 we previously ran to it. But all thats now in my past. :cry:
Maybe I'll play some safety for an intermural flag football team.

 

[DBoston80]

So how do you beat it?

By quick throws from three step drops maybe? High percentage efficient passing?

Strong inside the tackles running game possibly?

A mixture of the two?? :hmmm:

Well if you have the horses I would say this would be a good way:

1.) A good TE who can beat a LB 90% of the time (McMicheal)
2.) A WR who will demand saftey help on deep balls(CC&DB)
3.) A WR who can body cb's and win the fight to the ball(CC&DB)
4.) A RB who can pound up the middle, has speed to get outside, and can catch balls.(RICKY)
5.) OL who are quick enough to get bodies on LB's(???)
6.) A qb who can make good decisions and read the LB's zone(????)

All and all we match up Very well IMO vs the Pats for example on a 3-4 base Defense..Its the blitzing that will be the difference.

How well our Oline handles those blitzes and how well whoever QB is makes good quick reads and decisions is key......

Teams will almost have to blitz vs. these matchups we have too many weapons that demand Double teams...but if we dont get decent Oline play and solid qb play it might just be all for not

 

[Jimi]

I disagree, if we were in a 3-4 I could see a lighter chester and perhaps Zgonina playing end, while Taylor would be a ouside backer.

We ran a 3-4 for my highschool team last year, and unless your constantly blitzing its very hard to get pressure on the Q. I perfer the 4-4 we previously ran to it. But all thats now in my past. :cry:
Maybe I'll play some safety for an intermural flag football team.

I dont see Chester and Zgonina as DE's ever. I also dont see Jason Taylor being a great LB like he is DE. The Dolphins tried to get him in at LB wen they first got him, but found he was better at DE. His greatest strength is when hes on the line he has such a fast burst and first step tht he gets by tackles b4 there ready to black. If he was a LB thtd b takin away his greatest strength. And then what exactly do we do with Ogunleye. Cant have his talents sittin.

 

[Jimi]

Just for conversation's sake....IMO

The misleading thing about most defenses is that if there are more linemen inside it's more difficult to run against. As I said, that's misleading. More LINEMEN at the line the more I would pound inside.

In contrast the more linebackers in the core with less linemen on the line (such as the 34) the more I would run off tackle. We face the 62 junkyard dog, 52 monster, and the 53 eagle and hawk defenses in little league. They are all eight man fronts but they tend to be linebacker heavy in the core. So our game plan is to run off tackle and pass in the flat until the outside linebacker widens. Once the linebacker widens we run in the middle.

In all leagues I think you prefer the matchup for the tackle to be made by a linebacker on the running back. While the 43 funnels the RB into the core or middle. The 34 has tight end to tight end covered by linebackers with the linebackers serving as the defensive end of the 43 (if you will).

Most high schools in my area have move to a 3-3-5 defense. They say it's for the passing game but I believe it's more related to the fact that they have more to choose from in the form of secondary and linebacker type players rather than linemen. Plain and simple it's just tough to find 250 pound players with the ability to stuff the run. If they do have that ability and size I think you would rather they play offensive guard to utilize them to get out on the linebackers. In the 33 they have replaced those outside linebackers on the tight end with strong safeties.

In short I guess what I'm saying is Linebackers are the key to stopping the run. In most defenses the linemen essentially are blockers for the linebackers to stay clean.

I tell my little league D tackles as a last resort (if you have lost position) cause a pile. I guess that tells you their usefulness.

3-3-5??Thts very odd. Our team runs a standard 4-3-4. High School is more centerd around the running game(for the most part). Also it seems to me like at this level and effective pass rush is a better technique to mess up the passing game as oppse to more DB's.

 

[CrunchTime]

If you have a dominating front 4 (which we do) I like the 4-3 much more than the 3-4 which is more geared to linebacker play.It works for the Pats because they have great balance in all defensive positions and an average front 4.Remember all those bad Shula years with the 3-4 .

 

[CrunchTime]

Correction;Obviously the Pats dont have a front four but rather a front 3.lol
Also I would like to point out that the Killer Bs was basically a 3-4 so not all of Shulas yrs with that defense were bad.
Anyway the Pats dont always use a 3-4 but mix it up according to situation.

 

[brent]

Bad years with Shula & 3-4? Lets look at HISTORY!

No-Names and Killer Bees ran the 3-4 to perfection! Of course Bill Armsparger had alot to do with it as well. Bill left for LSU in late '83. Which then we hired Chuck Studley from Houston to rUn the 3-4 for us. Steady decline from 2nd in 82, ranked 8th in D in '83, then 19th in 84. Total melt down in 85 and '86 DEAD LAST. Tom Olividotti could not ran the 3-4 when he took over in '87. We junked it in 92 and went to the 4-3 thinking that was the problem. Same result which got him, Shula and others fired in '95.

 

[Greatscott127]

The 3-3-5 is odd, but I have seen, and used it myself. In high school ball speed kills, we are not talking coledge or pro ball but high school and semi pro ball very few players have that kind of killer speed. The Idea is to use the linemen to take up blockers ( cause a little confusion on the oline for assignments and such) and the lb's to funnel the flow of the play to the outside on the short side of the field. ONe center field safty. gives double coverage and provides contain on the flair, screen and draw. It has some weaknesses but it puts your fastest players on the field. I only used it 2 times in the last 4 years. Both times we were facing a single dimension running team but the back had 4-2 speed and we had noone who was near that fast. So there is a time to use it. others I have used are the 52,62,63,44,54,43,45, 35, but most of the time we are in a 44,53 or flex where we will shift in and out of 4,5 and 6 man fronts.