Boo-ers read this. Saban's column on miamidolphins.com

[Historia]

Saban looks like a really smart guy. I would not be surprised if he gets many accolades in the future

 

[Muck]

I know this may be an unpopular thing to say, but leave it to Nick Saban to have such a big ego as to think that the fans who pay his salary, also work for him.

Listen I see what he is saying and I see what ya'll are saying and yes, it does help the football team when the fans are supportive and do not boo the team, etc. Buffalo's a great example, if everyone starts booing mercilessly maybe we don't make that comeback.

But the fans don't attend games to help the team win games. The fans attend games to watch their team win. Saban is forgetting who exactly is paying who, here.

If I like to shop at Wal-Mart, and am a big fan of the store, and I buy something defective, I'm still taking it straight back to the customer service counter and getting my refund. Would I listen to a Wal-Mart CEO try and tell me that if I like the store and like shopping there, please stop taking defective items back for refunds? Heck no.

So in short, fans do whatever it is they feel like doing. That's their god-given right. They pay money for a product. If they are unhappy with the product they can certainly voice their displeasure over it if they want...as long as they realize that simply voicing their displeasure makes turning that bad product into a good product just a little bit harder than if they cheered for the team unconditionally as if they were competing at the Special Olympics (where you're a winner as long as you just try hard).

He's asking, not telling. And I don't believe it's an unreasonable request.

Sure Saban has a big ego. What NFL head coach doesn't?? It's almost a pre-requisite for the job. But he's asking for help, not threatening to cut or tell someone they're any less of a fan.

As for fans attending to watch and not help, that's exactly what Saban is trying to change. But to say "that's the way it is" is to miss the mark IMO. Otherwise we wouldn't get loud for the defense on third down. We wouldn't get up when the goalline D is out there. Hell, the Orange Bowl wouldn't have the reputation it does when the Phins used to play there (Ron Jaworski anyone??). We get loud with the intention of affecting the game. We're already halfway there.

Saban's goal may or may not come to fruition when all is said and done. But at least he's making an attempt.

 

[inFINSible]

Exactly right: But that's exactly why I stated up front that there are deficiences in the english language when it comes to explaining this. Back on page 1 or 2 I tried to explain exactly what you are saying - that my definitions WERE arbitrary constructs for purposes of this thread. But it does cause a lot of issue in trying to have this debate as when you say 'fan' or 'supporter' or whatever, everyone means something different by it. Thats why you need to create an arbitrary construct in this debate, because there simply isn't the terminology necessary to express yourself in words otherwise. Better to boo instead... :wink:

Anyway, poor jokes aside, if you accept that point, based on my definitions, which again, I fully admit are made up, I still think they work. The rest of this post assumes you have accepted these constructs, and the need for them - if not, ignore the rest please! (Because that particular debate is not really interesting to me).


ie: Are you more of a 'fan' (ie: someone who is primarily there for entertainment - you are there to watch your team win, or play well), or more of a 'supporter' (ie: you are primarily there to try to help your team win, and are entertained, albiet perhaps with frustration, win or lose, play badly or well).

I think for every person except perhaps the most 'fair-weather' of 'fans' (again I am at a loss with terminology here, apologies - we need some new words darnit!) you will be a % of both types of person.

Many people have said there is a line that could be crossed where they would boo and leave games early etc. eg: lack of sportsmanship, lack of effort by a player, sending a message to management for years of bad decisions. "I wouldn't boo my team unless..."

So I think what we're really debating I think is how soon that line comes, and that determines what % of each type you are. Yes I would leave a Dolphin game early if there was some family emergency or something that mattered more to me, I'm not that much of a supporter! Clearly only the most insane person could be 100% supporter.

If you are 99% of a 'fan' and only 1% 'supporter' that means the opposite of course. You'll probably boo or leave the game for ANY old reason. I didn't like the playcall that scored a TD, I wanted it to be a run cos I had Ronnie Brown on my fantasy team - Boooo!
But I don't think that makes you any less of a fan or even less of a person. In fact, you are, by these arbitrary definitions an even BIGGER fan. (and probably quite often makes you more of a person if you have more higher priorities than supporting a darn sports team :wink: ).

I think I, and it seems others who see it like me, are a higher % of supporter than fan when it comes to the Dolphins. Because I really can't often understand the attitudes of people that aren't like me & as I said earlier, it's very likely a cultural thing for me too. That doesn't mean I think anyone else is wrong though. I just sometimes wonder things like (and I've posted them on this board before actually) - why don't you just support the favourite in every game and change which team you support each year, each game. Thats ok, you are just as big a fan of the NFL.

I think the reason is that many people do decide to follow ONE team is that you do get some amount of entertainment out of being a supporter. Otherwise, why do so? The reason really is, you DO actually get something out of supporting your team even when they lose. If you are on this board and are aligned to any one team, you almost certainly have some % of 'supporter' in you.

When it comes to the Dolphins I couldn't even boo my telly (or rather my PC, which is all I get for most Fins games..). I will go a lot quieter, and even sometimes be very upset! But the supporter inside me actually grows stronger from this.
For example, I always want to display my support MORE after a horrible loss as much as after a big win. 62-7.. ahem... I wore my Dolphins jacket all day. There is no way I could go out without it. I'm proud to support my team in those circumstances. I even had the luck to meet another NFL fan by doing so (a rare thing in this country! ^_^). I think the 4-12 season made me a bigger Dolphins supporter than EVER actually. It made me less of a fan as it actually helped me to understand what it was I got out of being a supporter of the Dolphins as opposed to just being a fan.

I think Saban is trying to encourage people to be more of a supporter and not just a fan (if he was basing it on these terms I've made up here anyway!).

As an aside - I think your % fan/supporter will naturally change over time too. I think its very possible if I was lucky enough to be able to go to every Dolphins game in a season, year in year out, I would become MORE of a fan and less of a supporter. Years of frustration could easily do that too. I think Saban is trying to reverse the trend. He's saying - look what we have going on here.. become more of a supporter than a fan, and help it even more, if you want to. He's not ordering anyone to do so, of course you have every right not to do so, and not to want to do so.


Lastly. Just to re-iterate again that I don't think anyone is wrong or any less of a person however you want to define your own terms. I will say you are less of a 'supporter' based on THESE particular terms though, but that is fine, I have been too. I just find this a very interesting topic, as you can tell by the amount I've just written here. I think a lot of people don't consider what it is they are entertained by really when it comes to following the Dolphins. If you do think about it however, you may realise you are more of a supporter than you thought you were. And if you do, I think you'll come to agree with Nick Saban's article in the end too.

Because it really IS all about the process.

Bump for this must-read post.

Awesome summary. Very well said. :clap:

 

[DolphinsFan23]

In Pittsburgh, I think most of them are die hard SUPPORTERS of the team. I bet half the people in Pittsburgh had heart palpitations when Ben Roethlisberger had his accident this summer.

It's a real community pride kind of thing. They call it "Steeler Nation" ... http://www.steelernation.com/ . We need our fans fortunate enough to go to the games to think of it like that ... they're in the stands representing "Dolphins Nation" ...and the Dolphins are definitely one of those teams that has fans all over the country. They ought to yell their heads off at home games and stay through the whole game. Dolphin fans can handle the Florida heat, a little adversity in some of the games, and a little extra time in traffic. No big deal.

The Steeler fans are probably like Coach Cowher when it comes to supporting their team. I heard Coach Cowher say in an interview that he has all sorts of ways to keep his players motivated to play their best. He said each player is different and he tries to find out what brings out the best in each player.

So ...booing fans *might* help a few of the guys get more motivated ....and it might make other players even more stressed and mistake prone ....so I don't think it helps much at all to boo the whole team. There's other ways to let the coaches know they need to work harder with certain players. You could send them an email or something.

 

[G-Force]

In Pittsburgh, I think most of them are die hard SUPPORTERS of the team. I bet half the people in Pittsburgh had heart palpitations when Ben Roethlisberger had his accident this summer.

It's a real community pride kind of thing. They call it "Steeler Nation" ... http://www.steelernation.com/ . We need our fans fortunate enough to go to the games to think of it like that ... they're in the stands representing "Dolphins Nation" ...and the Dolphins are definitely one of those teams that has fans all over the country. They ought to yell their heads off at home games and stay through the whole game. Dolphin fans can handle the Florida heat, a little adversity in some of the games, and a little extra time in traffic. No big deal.

The Steeler fans are probably like Coach Cowher when it comes to supporting their team. I heard Coach Cowher say in an interview that he has all sorts of ways to keep his players motivated to play their best. He said each player is different and he tries to find out what brings out the best in each player.

So ...booing fans *might* help a few of the guys get more motivated ....and it might make other players even more stressed and mistake prone ....so I don't think it helps much at all to boo the whole team. There's other ways to let the coaches know they need to work harder with certain players. You could send them an email or something.

Who can tell when they are booing a player or the team? The only way to tell that is if the whole team is quitting or showing lack of effort or non-discipline or it's one player. Either way their is a reason for the boo's. And until they start giving fans merchandise and frre parking and tickets etc,etc, it is their right. I have heard the boo birds in every stadium. Look on the bright side at least were not Philly where everyone gets booed for anything.

 

[Finole]

Paying money doesn't make you a fan, it makes you a customer.

Nice. I like it. You should make that your signature.

Here's another way to look at it: I grew up in South Florida, but when I moved out to L.A. I would go to Dodger games from time to time. I pay for parking and tickets, buy beer, hot dogs and peanuts... but I am not a Dodger fan. Not even close. I don't really follow baseball. It's just a fun way to pass the time with friends (especially when there's no football or basketball).

Oh please, why is it that everyone here thinks that THEY know what the true definition of a fan is

Because every individual has their own definition of what it means to be a fan.

It's all about your point of view. For example, if I think rushing for over 1,000 yards is a great season for a RB, then I'd say LaMont Jordan had a great season last year because he rushed for 1025 yards. If you think a RB has to rush for at least 1300 yards to have a great season, then you would disagee.

Make sense?

Fans are supporters, because they support and cheer for theirr team. Fans are customers, because they engage in economic transactions with the team directly and indirectly. Fans identify with the team and fans criticize the team. Fans stand up and cheer in stadiums and sometimes stand up and boo to show their displeasure with the team.

Yes, but the question is what kind of fan a person is.

Even the Merriam-Webster definition is woefully inadequate in defining what a "fan" is.

1 : an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator

Actually, that's pretty adequate. Enthusiastic and devoted. Pretty much sums it up. Even if you boo when your team does poorly, you can do so out of enthusiasm and devotion.

However, people who leave the game early... I'd say they're more a fan of beating traffic than the team they came to see.

 

[phinatic8818]

awesome article great read thanks

 

[donart]

Hey Coach, I was there till the end !!!!!!
http://www.dolphin-town.com/final.jpg

I was there. no coach likes boo-ers, no owner likes boo-ers, the fact is its ineviteable. I am not a boo type guy, I felt that the crowds at the stadium recently have been good, and justified in there reactions. this is the second year of consistency that we are expereincing ( not even done yet) so I say give it soe time the fans will get better along with team.

Great Information!! My brother and I left during that Buffalo game in the 4th qtr. I told him them we will never leave early again!!! I love the Phins and can't wait to put on my Saban Straw hat ang watch the Phins dominate the AFC East.:nesucks: :billsbite :

 

[PhinGeneral]

In Pittsburgh, I think most of them are die hard SUPPORTERS of the team. I bet half the people in Pittsburgh had heart palpitations when Ben Roethlisberger had his accident this summer.

And most Dolphin fans would react the same way if something happened to Brown or Culpepper. Fans are fans. Do you really think they don't boo in Pittsburgh? Go find some tapes of Tommy Maddox playing for them last year and see how "supportive" the fans in Pittsburgh were.

It's a real community pride kind of thing. They call it "Steeler Nation" ... http://www.steelernation.com/ . We need our fans fortunate enough to go to the games to think of it like that ... they're in the stands representing "Dolphins Nation" ...and the Dolphins are definitely one of those teams that has fans all over the country. They ought to yell their heads off at home games and stay through the whole game. Dolphin fans can handle the Florida heat, a little adversity in some of the games, and a little extra time in traffic. No big deal.

I agree. And I think a lot of that comes with winning, unfortunate or not.

The Steeler fans are probably like Coach Cowher when it comes to supporting their team. I heard Coach Cowher say in an interview that he has all sorts of ways to keep his players motivated to play their best. He said each player is different and he tries to find out what brings out the best in each player.

Fans are fans. Some might be more rabid than others, but Pitt fans are no more "nurturing" than any other fans.

So ...booing fans *might* help a few of the guys get more motivated ....and it might make other players even more stressed and mistake prone ....so I don't think it helps much at all to boo the whole team. There's other ways to let the coaches know they need to work harder with certain players. You could send them an email or something.

You must be fairly young or naive, because there's no way a head coach of an NFL team cares what you, I or any other armchair QB thinks how they should handle certain players.

 

[ckb2001]

One should also consider what things look like if you go too far in the direction of supporting the team within the stadium (just in terms of crowd support - nothing violent).

Probably the type of fan Saban would love is the kind you see in Korea. For those that watch that kind of support (World Cup 2002 allowed the rest of the world to see it, but it is part of their culture and not something soccer-specific for them), it seems amazing how an entire stadium has fans dressed in the same colors (this you see elsewhere), sings the entire time (also seen elsewhere, but rarely the entire game in other countries), but CONTINUES doing this no matter how bad the team is playing!!

It goes on the whole game, and that's not normal even in a soccer game.

So, what's behind this, and should we try to change our fan culture to be like theirs? Well, having lived in Japan (similar situation in baseball: during the time your team bats, you constantly sing or cheer in a choreographed way - the fans of the opposing team are "allowed" to do the same during their turn to bat) for many years, I can tell you this culture creates a sense of OBLIGATION by any fan/person-in-attendance to root as all the others do, and it becomes difficult to express your own opinion through cheers or boos (this can become quite uncomfortable if you experience it often).

This kind of supporting culture provides the "extra player" as well as any could during home games, but the individual fan can be left with a bit of an uncomfortable experience if he/she is used to expressing himself as he chooses.

So, not feeling the "right to boo" even during games can be a bit consternating and it's probably something you really wouldn't want to implement IF you've actually seen it implemented already!

 

[fin1]

I find it interesting how for the most part, the fans that normally start these types of discussions are those that don't live here in South Florida. Yes I understand how you can ask "How would any REAL fan leave a game that hasn't ended yet?" But is a completely out of hand game, not essentially over? If you'll remember my previous statement, I said that I would never leave a game in which there was a legit chance of coming back...but are you going to tell me that a team down by say, 28 with 4 minutes left has a legit chance of coming back? Highly unlikely...So yes, I'm taking off.

Maybe its because out of towners don't get to go to as many games as they would like and feel that we "in-towners" take it for granted, but I can tell you this....It happens in EVERY SINGLE STADIUM in just about EVERY SINGLE SPORT. I know soccer fans are a different breed, you guys are just nuts...but it is what it is.

As far as equating money to support being BS??? Again, thats easy for a person that attends one game every two or three years to say, but while I was a season ticket holder I would easily drop a couple G's a season...now, I would say that I drop somewhere around 500 a season, maybe a bit more (I don't exactly keep a running total). That "non-support" helps to pay for the guys we watch on Sundays.

Finally, I do have to disagree a bit with CK on one point...without a doubt, the fans do play a role when it comes to helping the home team. A loud croud helps to disrupt an opposing offense and really does get the team pumped up. I can understand Saban's point about booing...its counterproductive. But loud crowds don't do much when a team is getting its azz kicked.

I go to alot of games here in INDY and I stay until I know the game is won or lost and get out but I'm not a Colts fan and I can tell you that there is a lifetime waiting list to be a Green Bay season ticket holder. I am nowhere near Kansas City, Green Bay, Cleveland, Pittsburgh but I can tell you that I wish Dolphins fans were in that group.

 

[ajajaj]

I know this may be an unpopular thing to say, but leave it to Nick Saban to have such a big ego as to think that the fans who pay his salary, also work for him.

Listen I see what he is saying and I see what ya'll are saying and yes, it does help the football team when the fans are supportive and do not boo the team, etc. Buffalo's a great example, if everyone starts booing mercilessly maybe we don't make that comeback.

But the fans don't attend games to help the team win games. The fans attend games to watch their team win. Saban is forgetting who exactly is paying who, here.

If I like to shop at Wal-Mart, and am a big fan of the store, and I buy something defective, I'm still taking it straight back to the customer service counter and getting my refund. Would I listen to a Wal-Mart CEO try and tell me that if I like the store and like shopping there, please stop taking defective items back for refunds? Heck no.

So in short, fans do whatever it is they feel like doing. That's their god-given right. They pay money for a product. If they are unhappy with the product they can certainly voice their displeasure over it if they want...as long as they realize that simply voicing their displeasure makes turning that bad product into a good product just a little bit harder than if they cheered for the team unconditionally as if they were competing at the Special Olympics (where you're a winner as long as you just try hard).

:sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol:


Wow, man. Protest on brotha...

He was not giving a comand to the fans to cheer for the team. He was asking for help. If you want to compare it to a job type situation, then fine.

If you are saying the fans are the boss because we in a round a bout way pay his salary then think of it like this.

If you had a boss that demanded things get done (wins) and that it happens within a deadline (this season) than I as an "employee" would expect my boss to give me every possible tool available to make the job get done.

Nick is saying that the team is improving it's on the right track, but he also understands the situation that this franchise has been disappointing to say the least over the last decade. So if you are a true fan of the fins he is asking you to not give up on your team de everything in your power to make your request happen by your deadline and give nick and the fins every possible tool to help win this season.

Not a lot to argue in his statements or anyone that agrees with his statements, so long as you are a true fan.

 

[cnc66]

:sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol:


Not a lot to argue in his statements or anyone that agrees with his statements, so long as you are a true fan.

:jt0323:

 

[Remy_Basara_UK]

Bump for this must-read post.

Awesome summary. Very well said. :clap:

Hey thanks inFINS. Thats very kind of you and I'm really glad someone likes it (and actually bothered to read it!). I wish I could explain how I feel more easily and it wasn't such a long post, but I don't think I can. :tantrum:

You can also replace the terminology used in my argument if you don't like it. Change 'fan' to 'customer' or 'entertainment seeker' if you like, and change 'supporter' to 'fan' if you like. It doesn't really matter for the purposes of the debate what terms you chose to use. I still think it defines the two different ends of the spectrum of people that chose to follow a single sports team.

I really do believe that many people could definitely use some introspective analysis of WHY they are a fan/follower/supporter of a team, whatever you want to call it. The best time to do it is after a horrible loss by your team that puts you in a bad mood all week - I expect most of us here have experienced that kind of thing at some point. Then think about why you put yourself through that?

Anyway. Introspective Emo Ranger out.

 

[Dmancari23]

If they stink, I'll boo or change the channel. IF they're playing well it's great for everyone. WHO CARES???? Damn, let's stop being ridiculous. I agree 100% with CK, Nick Saban is an EGO MANIAC and it'll catch up to him someday.