Brian Hartline: Courtesy of Ckparrothead

[BlueFin]

that draft is just looking worse and worse. everyone that was drafted in the top 10 is pretty much average or out of the league.

I don't know, just because some teams drafted poorly in the top ten doesn't mean the entire draft sucked....there were 18 picks in the top 65 that have made pro bowls. Aaron Rogers should have been the number #2 overall pick of the Miami Dolphins. Look back at the picks from 11 back into the 3rd round and there are many gems. Cam Wake went undrafted in that draft and he obviously should have been drafted. I'd say its more poor evalution at the top than it being a bad draft.

 

[RobertHorry]

I have seen receivers with graceful form drop balls right and left. Catching the ball cleanly is about:

- catching the ball with your hands
- catching the ball at its highest point
- making adjustments to the ball

Ugly form is related but not the key concern.

He doesn't the ball cleanly. Its going to hurt him during the game one of these times.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

When I watch Brian Hartline play WR, I think of Bambi learning to walk.

 

[tazthenomad]

A lot of the lack of run after catch was on ball placement. You've got to pay attention to where these balls are coming in. Always really low, really high, or really wide. That wasn't just Chad Henne, that was also Matt Moore. Moore makes his WRs work for the ball.

There are plays where you see the potential for Hartlne to keep his feet better if he had more consistently good ball placement. However, there is no denying there are plays in there where Hartline really didn't NEED to go to the ground as he was catching it or immediately after he caught it...but he did anyway. Those are the situations I'm sure Philbin and O'Keefe will want to work on with Brian, to help him avoid.

I watched the video and the first impression I got was the point you made here... not just about ball placement but the timing. Hard to have yards after the catch when you have to dive for the ball or wait for it. The video illustrates to me that we need better QB play before we expect much from our WRs.

 

[Hawaii 5-0]

I like Hartline, but 9 minutes worth of tape and not one broken tackle?!? the guy goes down far too easy.

 

[LikeUntoGod]

I like Hartline, but 9 minutes worth of tape and not one broken tackle?!? the guy goes down far too easy.

If a WR broke tackles he would be a running back. His YAC was 4.57 his three season here. How many WRs do that much better?

WRs do not break tackles, their QB hits them in stride and they avoid them.

 

[LikeUntoGod]

I watched the video and the first impression I got was the point you made here... not just about ball placement but the timing. Hard to have yards after the catch when you have to dive for the ball or wait for it. The video illustrates to me that we need better QB play before we expect much from our WRs.

Exactly. And how many were go routes or any kind of up the field route where he caught the ball in stride?

Chad Henne could not throw over a defender and it seemed like after a few years we stopped trying to run those routes. The big YAC comes after the WR catches the ball and outruns the defender to the endzone. I can remember Chad Henne hitting Hartline on only one such post route in 2 and 1/4 years.

 

[LikeUntoGod]

The biggest thing IMO is that in his 3 years here, he has been the leader in YPR all 3 years. So what ever he is doing, he is doing something right.

And when you consider that the QBing on this team has been so poor, he does not rate that badly NFL wide.

 

[clownfish]

Because bringing him in would completely negate the supposed reasons for getting rid of Marshall. Diva with ****ty hands.

But bringing in Donald Driver wouldn't, IMO.

 

[Hawaii 5-0]

If a WR broke tackles he would be a running back. His YAC was 4.57 his three season here. How many WRs do that much better?

WRs do not break tackles, their QB hits them in stride and they avoid them.

a look at the top ten wide receivers and tight ends in broken tackles:

Most Broken Tackles, 2011 WR/TE
Player	Team	BT	Runs	Rec	Touches	BT/Touch
Aaron Hernandez	NE	21	5	79	84	25.0%
Mike Wallace	PIT	14	5	72	77	18.2%
Greg Little	CLE	13	3	61	64	20.3%
Rob Gronkowski	NE	13	1	90	91	14.3%
Calvin Johnson	DET	12	1	96	97	12.4%
Nate Burleson	DET	12	11	73	84	14.3%
Victor Cruz	NYG	11	1	82	83	13.3%
Dwayne Bowe	KC	11	1	81	82	13.4%
Jason Witten	DAL	11	0	79	79	13.9%
Michael Crabtree	SF	10	1	72	73	13.7%
Dez Bryant	DAL	10	1	63	64	15.6%

all i'm saying is it would be nice to see him break one once in a while, not necessarily for a big gain, but to be able to get to the sticks when we really need it

 

[LDaniel7]

That video doesn't show potential greatness. At all.

Over and over again it shows a slow, not particularly strong WR, with good hands. Separation? Nah. He gets "open" by routes and holes in defensive zone. And then 1. Cannot outrun anyone. And, 2. Goes down at first contact. Slow, slow, slow -- and he's faster than Bess, which says boatloads about the status of Miami WRs. Hartline is a classic "possession" WR, which is fine if you are mixing him in w. some great talents at the 1 and 2. But when you have possession WRs as your top 1 and 2 -- every freakin game, you're in trouble.

Hartline will NEVER be a great WR. No matter what offense. He's a slow, weak, non-quick, no moves after the catch WR. His talent is for a number 3 on an even average WR corps. He is only starting bc Miami has had the worst WRs for the last too many years. And don't get me started on how average Bess is. Dang.

Miami would be so much better off to blow up the WR position and forget getting high on mediocre talent. Take a chance on greatness and develop some TALENT. Not someone whose best day is a possession WR output... and never a gamebreaker or dangerous playmaker.

LD

 

[cdz12250]

"...Walsh is given credit for popularizing the 'West Coast offense', which is not entirely true. The Bill Walsh offense was actually created and refined while he was an assistant coach with Bengals. The offense utilizes a short, precise, timed passing game as a replacement/augmentation of the running game. The offense is extremely difficult to defend against as it is content to consistently make 6-8 yard gains all the way down the field."

Remember.

 

[LikeUntoGod]

a look at the top ten wide receivers and tight ends in broken tackles:

Most Broken Tackles, 2011 WR/TE
Player	Team	BT	Runs	Rec	Touches	BT/Touch
Aaron Hernandez	NE	21	5	79	84	25.0%
Mike Wallace	PIT	14	5	72	77	18.2%
Greg Little	CLE	13	3	61	64	20.3%
Rob Gronkowski	NE	13	1	90	91	14.3%
Calvin Johnson	DET	12	1	96	97	12.4%
Nate Burleson	DET	12	11	73	84	14.3%
Victor Cruz	NYG	11	1	82	83	13.3%
Dwayne Bowe	KC	11	1	81	82	13.4%
Jason Witten	DAL	11	0	79	79	13.9%
Michael Crabtree	SF	10	1	72	73	13.7%
Dez Bryant	DAL	10	1	63	64	15.6%

all i'm saying is it would be nice to see him break one once in a while, not necessarily for a big gain, but to be able to get to the sticks when we really need it

I understand but I'd rather him have a nice YPR average, which he does. And I still believe it has a lot to do with ball placement. A pass taken in stride or before he is hit, it gives him a better chance of excaping a tackle. If a WR can get open and catch the ball, I really do not care if he ever breaks a tackle.

Also, look at these players, 3 TEs, 4 very big WRs, a very fast one in Mike Wallace. I do not think it is a accident that 6 of them play for 3 teams with very good QBs and downfield passing games. Greg Little is interesting because he came close to leading the NFL in drops.

 

[miamiron]

the problem with the yac is that most of the balls thrown to him last year were horribly placed, both henne's throws and moore's. He had to fall down to catch about half of them, and was constantly having to slow down or go back to get the ball, because moore was under throwing it.

when in doubt blame the other guy

 

[X-FACTOR]

That video doesn't show potential greatness. At all.

Over and over again it shows a slow, not particularly strong WR, with good hands. Separation? Nah. He gets "open" by routes and holes in defensive zone. And then 1. Cannot outrun anyone. And, 2. Goes down at first contact. Slow, slow, slow -- and he's faster than Bess, which says boatloads about the status of Miami WRs. Hartline is a classic "possession" WR, which is fine if you are mixing him in w. some great talents at the 1 and 2. But when you have possession WRs as your top 1 and 2 -- every freakin game, you're in trouble.

Hartline will NEVER be a great WR. No matter what offense. He's a slow, weak, non-quick, no moves after the catch WR. His talent is for a number 3 on an even average WR corps. He is only starting bc Miami has had the worst WRs for the last too many years. And don't get me started on how average Bess is. Dang.

Miami would be so much better off to blow up the WR position and forget getting high on mediocre talent. Take a chance on greatness and develop some TALENT. Not someone whose best day is a possession WR output... and never a gamebreaker or dangerous playmaker.

LD

I agree with your analysis for the most part.....particularly after watching the whole video. Hartline can make some great grabs, but he certainly puts very little fear into defensive backs he routinely faces. I think I was more confident in the state of the WR corp before watching the highlight reel. Watching him going down Immediately after every catch was kind of disturbing. The comparisons to Jordy Nelson that some people make are a tad off because when Nelson faced one-on-one coverage (which was intially routine for him) he could actually make the defender miss and then turn up field for big gains. I really haven't seen Hatrline do that on similarly run comeback routes. People seem to be confident that the WC offense will change that....here's hoping so.

Peace.....