Can the problems with our O-line have to do ...... | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Can the problems with our O-line have to do ......

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DolphinVJ

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with the fact that they have to face 8 men in the box (to stop Ricky) since Fiedler can not pass well enough to back off opponents? May be the reason our O-line is struggling is because they have to constantly take on more players than normal at the line of scrimmage.
 
Yes. People are stacking 8 and 9 in the box and daring us to beat them with the pass. It doesn't matter if its backers or db's. We're going to continue seeing this until we get the passing game in synch. At this point, I am not opposed to a QB change but let's not make a change just for change's sake. Also, Dixon comes back this week so that should help the OL.

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Originally posted by DolphinVJ
with the fact that they have to face 8 men in the box (to stop Ricky) since Fiedler can not pass well enough to back off opponents? May be the reason our O-line is struggling is because they have to constantly take on more players than normal at the line of scrimmage.
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Hell no. Jay Fiedler is the same QB now as he was 3 years ago. Do you think that defenses were afraid of Fiedler last year? Ricky rushed for 1800 yds last year. The O line is playing like crap, that's what the problem is. At least McMichael did a good job of getting open this week. San Diego will have to account for him. Gadsden had no problem getting open either. Let Jay pass on first and second down and the defenses will back off.
 
fairbanksb,

Fiedler is not the same QB of even a year ago (pre-injury) as pointed out in other threads today. Also, we cannot go back 3 years ago because we did not have a good consistent running game like we have with Ricky since last year. Even last year early on we did not face 8 men in the box because opponents were not sold on Ricky yet.

While opponents were not afraid of Fiedler last year they were not prepared to face Ricky with 8 either or other subtle changes - it takes defenses time to adjust to a dominant player like Ricky.
 
Originally posted by DolphinVJ
fairbanksb,

Fiedler is not the same QB of even a year ago (pre-injury) as pointed out in other threads today. Also, we cannot go back 3 years ago because we did not have a good consistent running game like we have with Ricky since last year. Even last year early on we did not face 8 men in the box because opponents were not sold on Ricky yet.

While opponents were not afraid of Fiedler last year they were not prepared to face Ricky with 8 either or other subtle changes - it takes defenses time to adjust to a dominant player like Ricky.
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All I am convinced of, is the problem is not Fiedler. Maybe the O line, maybe the receivers. Jay can throw the ball. He threw for 3300 yds in 2001. RW was not here. Chris Chambers had an 18 yard per catch avg. Anybody remember that? In 11 starts last year Jay threw for over 2000yds. Chambers starting getting double team but Gadsden or McMichael were getting open. Yesterday was the first time all year that Thompson and McMike started to get open and Fiedler threw for 230 yds.
 
Why do people keep saying our O-line is facing 8 and 9 men in the box?!?!?!

Watch the tapes. They are getting beat by 4 and 5 men rushes with BASE defenses!!! If anything, the lack of push up front in the running game or protection of Fiedler is the reason the PASSING game is struggling.
 
Originally posted by grooves12
Why do people keep saying our O-line is facing 8 and 9 men in the box?!?!?!

Watch the tapes. They are getting beat by 4 and 5 men rushes with BASE defenses!!! If anything, the lack of push up front in the running game or protection of Fiedler is the reason the PASSING game is struggling.
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You should probably save your breadth or fingers. People don't want to hear it. I DT would have caught that deep ball throw to him yesterday, Jay would have had 250yds. We won 4 games with him and it should have been 5 except for Mare.
 
Originally posted by grooves12
Why do people keep saying our O-line is facing 8 and 9 men in the box?!?!?!

Watch the tapes. They are getting beat by 4 and 5 men rushes with BASE defenses!!! If anything, the lack of push up front in the running game or protection of Fiedler is the reason the PASSING game is struggling.
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THANK YOU!!!!!!
 
Originally posted by grooves12
Why do people keep saying our O-line is facing 8 and 9 men in the box?!?!?!

Watch the tapes. They are getting beat by 4 and 5 men rushes with BASE defenses!!! If anything, the lack of push up front in the running game or protection of Fiedler is the reason the PASSING game is struggling.
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"Eight in the Box" is exactly what you described.

Two Tackles, Two Ends, and a linebacker = 5

Two linebackers and probably a free safety cheating up = 8

"Eight in the box"

That's why.
 
Originally posted by ZOD


"Eight in the Box" is exactly what you described.

Two Tackles, Two Ends, and a linebacker = 5

Two linebackers and probably a free safety cheating up = 8

"Eight in the box"

That's why.
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There's one problem with your explanation...its not happening.

Even if it is, it doesn't matter, the front 4 are making most of the tackles. There is no other explanation other than there D Line is winning the battle at the line.

If there is another explanation, Id love to hear it.
 
Best blockers on the team:

Fiedler, Ricky, Konrad, McMichael, Chambers, McKnight, Thompson, Lee, & Femi
 
I'm going to add a little more cause I don't think you understand the term.

The "box" is from DE to DE or LB whichever is further out.

Linebackers and free safeties 3 to 7 yards back within the DE to DE are included in the phrase "in the box".

If an offense is facing "eight in the box" it is difficult to run on. There are too many men "in the box" to block.

Advantage defense against the run.

"Eight in the Box" should open up the passing game. It does not open it up for us. Our receivers do not get seperation. Our QB does not throw well.

Our Offensive line must constantly guess which men "in the box" are going to rush into the backfield.

Advantage defense in the pass rush.

Do you understand?
 
Originally posted by FinfanInBuffalo


There's one problem with your explanation...its not happening.

Even if it is, it doesn't matter, the front 4 are making most of the tackles. There is no other explanation other than there D Line is winning the battle at the line.

If there is another explanation, Id love to hear it.
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It happened against Buffalo (they play the 4-6).

It happened against the Giants.

And I defy you to tell me that Bill Bellichek did not have a linebacker on the LOS every play.

It did not happen against the Jaguars which is why I said we should have run more. We did gain positive yardage on every run.
 
I understand the term well. I just haven't seen 8 men in the box with the exception of the Giants game. And even if the safeties are playing slightly closer than they normally would, they are not "selling out, to stop the run."

The defenses we have faced have mostly double-covered our WR's with a safety and CB, and allowed them to read-and-react to any running plays. Teams are NOT blitzing us or sending extra men to stop the run. They are playing disciplined coverage schemes, overpowering our offensive line with a four or five-man rush, and allowing the linebackers react to the ball.

If that means an obvious passing situation (and almost all of our play-calls have been obvious) It means 6-7 guys are back in coverage, and they are STILL getting pressure on fiedler.

I don't mind the term 8 men in the box when it is being used properly. But people are using it as an excuse for the O-line, and trying to make it sound like they are facing more men than they can block. Which in turn would mean someone, somewhere should be uncovered or at the very least one-on-one. But that is not the case. The O-line is often being beaten one-on-one, or even very often with MORE O-lineman than rushers.
 
Originally posted by ZOD
I'm going to add a little more cause I don't think you understand the term.

The "box" is from DE to DE or LB whichever is further out.

Linebackers and free safeties 3 to 7 yards back within the DE to DE are included in the phrase "in the box".

If an offense is facing "eight in the box" it is difficult to run on. There are too many men "in the box" to block.

Advantage defense against the run.

"Eight in the Box" should open up the passing game. It does not open it up for us. Our receivers do not get seperation. Our QB does not throw well.

Our Offensive line must constantly guess which men "in the box" are going to rush into the backfield.

Advantage defense in the pass rush.

Do you understand?
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Look I understand what is meant by 8 in the box. My point is that the fins are not facing 8 in the box as much as people want to believe. If they were, you'd have to admit, there would be more tackles by safeties near the line of scrimmage on running plays. Otherwise, whats the point? You cannot expect me to believe that our oline is getting tricked into blocking nobody. I also cannot believe that they are letting the linemen go so that they can go block a safety.

Give me a break. Didn't you witness Rodney Harrison chasing McMichael all over the field?

Buffalo does not play the 4-6. there is no such thing. Its the "46" and they haven't been playing it anyway.

Do you understand?
 
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