Chad Henne vs. Ryan Tannehill: A Scary Thought? | Page 11 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Chad Henne vs. Ryan Tannehill: A Scary Thought?

shouright said:
What could I tell you that would convince you I had the understanding to determine at the present time whether Ryan Tannehill is going to end up being a better QB than Chad Henne long-term?
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Do you notice Tannehill can throw a guy open? That he has already improved his throws to a guy before his break, something Henne never did. How about the no deer in head light look? How about the non robotic nature of his game compared to Henne. That when he has time he can get to his third and fourth reads? Henne never knew what to do after his second read. How about understanding what the defense is showing him? Moving the protections or changing the play correctly? Name me one int this year that was a horrible read? One tipped by lb, one hits Clay in the hands, Hartline stops running his route, Wallace stops running his route, the last also tipped. Non were bad reads, the result ended up being bad not the read. Stats don't show that. Henne had many bad throws or reads.

When you continue to push stats down everyone's throat as a justification for how good a player is and will be. After three games the stats did not support how bad your portraying him. In the post before the one you answered I showed three different players with pretty similar stats and QB rating as Tannehill. One was manning, one Brady and one Freeman. I could show you Flaccos stats for Last year which he had a similar QB rating to Tannehill currently. If Tannehill ends up with a QB rating in the mid 80s will you finally think he is a good QB?
 
Canadi-Phin said:
Do you notice Tannehill can throw a guy open? That he has already improved his throws to a guy before his break, something Henne never did. How about the no deer in head light look? How about the non robotic nature of his game compared to Henne. That when he has time he can get to his third and fourth reads? Henne never knew what to do after his second read. How about understanding what the defense is showing him? Moving the protections or changing the play correctly? Name me one int this year that was a horrible read? One tipped by lb, one hits Clay in the hands, Hartline stops running his route, Wallace stops running his route, the last also tipped. Non were bad reads, the result ended up being bad not the read. Stats don't show that. Henne had many bad throws or reads.
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I think what you mean is that those things aren't measurable? If so, and if they contribute to effective QB play, why wouldn't they be reflected in his QB-relevant statistics?

If he's so much better than Chad Henne in these areas, and these areas are related to winning (as I presume you think they are), then why wouldn't they be reflected in statistics that are based on QB play and also strongly related to winning?

Are you telling me that Peyton Manning, for example, who does what you're saying above probably better than anyone in the league, has QB statistics that don't reflect these abilities? Is his QB rating devoid of any input of these abilities on his part?

If these abilities contribute to Peyton Manning's QB rating, why don't they contribute to Ryan Tannehill's?
 
shouright said:
I think what you mean is that those things aren't measurable? If so, and if they contribute to effective QB play, why wouldn't they be reflected in his QB-relevant statistics?

If he's so much better than Chad Henne in these areas, and these areas are related to winning (as I presume you think they are), then why wouldn't they be reflected in statistics that are based on QB play and also strongly related to winning?

Are you telling me that Peyton Manning, for example, who does what you're saying above probably better than anyone in the league, has QB statistics that don't reflect these abilities? Is his QB rating devoid of any input of these abilities on his part?

If these abilities contribute to Peyton Manning's QB rating, why don't they contribute to Ryan Tannehill's?
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They don't reflect because of the Ints. I would say only 3 Ints are his fault. Guy had very good stats until he had a bad game (which all second year qbs have.) You basically started this thread to say " hey he could go either way, but I will compare him to Henne because I just want to piss people of and get hits ."
 
shoveyjoe2442 said:
They don't reflect because of the Ints. I would say only 3 Ints are his fault. Guy had very good stats until he had a bad game (which all second year qbs have.)
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OK, so then let's be unbiased and do the same for Henne in 2010.

The fourth game of the season he threw 3 INTs against New England in a 41-14 loss. If we take away those 3 INTs from Henne's QB rating over the first four games of 2010, his QB rating for that period becomes 95.7.

If we do the same for Ryan Tannehill against New Orleans this past Monday, his QB rating this year becomes 94.1.

If you instead credit 3 INTs total to Tannehill this year, his QB rating becomes 91.2. If you likewise remove 2 of the INTs Chad Henne threw in the first four games in 2010, his QB rating becomes 92.5.

Are we seeing a difference?
 
shouright said:
OK, so then let's be unbiased and do the same for Henne in 2010.

The fourth game of the season he threw 3 INTs against New England in a 41-14 loss. If we take away those 3 INTs from Henne's QB rating over the first four games of 2010, his QB rating for that period becomes 95.7.

If we do the same for Ryan Tannehill against New Orleans this past Monday, his QB rating this year becomes 94.1.

If you instead credit 3 INTs total to Tannehill this year, his QB rating becomes 91.2. If you likewise remove 2 of the INTs Chad Henne threw in the first four games in 2010, his QB rating becomes 92.5.

Are we seeing a difference?
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We're the picks his fault? Bad reads? Throwing into coverage?
 
I don't understand the obsession you have with comparing Tannehill to Henne. I could compare Tannehills stats to a number of qbs that eventually became good to great and the numbers would favor him, does tha prove he is going to be as good?
 
shoveyjoe2442 said:
I don't understand the obsession you have with comparing Tannehill to Henne. I could compare Tannehills stats to a number of qbs that eventually became good to great and the numbers would favor him, does tha prove he is going to be as good?
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The relevance of comparing him to Henne is that the majority of the forum at this stage of Henne's career thought he was the solution, as does the majority of the forum now with Tannehill, despite the fact that their numbers are no different.

You're right that you could compare Tannehill's numbers favorably to those of a number of QBs who went on to be good to great, but the forum didn't spend a ton of time predicting those QBs would be good to great despite their rather pedestrian beginnings, as it did Henne (and now Tannehill).

It's a statement of our limitations. We don't know what we think we know around here.
 
shouright said:
The relevance of comparing him to Henne is that the majority of the forum at this stage of Henne's career thought he was the solution, as does the majority of the forum now with Tannehill, despite the fact that their numbers are no different.

You're right that you could compare Tannehill's numbers favorably to those of a number of QBs who went on to be good to great, but the forum didn't spend a ton of time predicting those QBs would be good to great despite their rather pedestrian beginnings, as it did Henne (and now Tannehill).

It's a statement of our limitations. We don't know what we think we know around here.
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It's a useless exercise to predict how good a qb is going to be at this stage of their careers unless they are horribly bad ( Beck) or fantastic ( Marino). Pedestrian stats are to be expected.
 
shoveyjoe2442 said:
It's a useless exercise to predict how good a qb is going to be at this stage of their careers unless they are horribly bad ( Beck) or fantastic ( Marino). Pedestrian stats are to be expected.
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But we should do so with our "eyes" alone?
 
shoveyjoe2442 said:
I would have to know in order to see if taking them away is acceptable.
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And then at that point we'd be in the quagmire of debating whether this or that interception was or wasn't the QB's fault. My lord, is the perceived difference between Henne and Tannehill at this stage of their careers hinging on that?

If so, I'd suggest we err on the conservative side and say there is no difference, rather than thinking we can determine who's at fault for interceptions from our vantage point in front of a TV screen.
 
shouright said:
But we should do so with our "eyes" alone?
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I look for progress both statistically (completion percentage, red zone efficency 3rd passing) and eye ball test ( better on tipped passes, moving in the pocket needs work). He has stuff to work on, if he is improving on his deficiencies and maintaining his strengths, then the stats will come.
 
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