Chad Pennington, Sage Rosenfels, Patrick Ramsey, and Phil Rivers... | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Chad Pennington, Sage Rosenfels, Patrick Ramsey, and Phil Rivers...

ckparrothead

ckparrothead

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Tell me what they all have in common...

Nah, I'll tell ya. They were all the most impressive QBs at their respective Senior Bowl appearances.

Actually its kinda funny this whole new Ramsey thing has brought me to look back through some draft profiles from back. Its kind of funny but the thing that seems to connect two guys like Pennington and Brady is that they play well in big games, were kinda max production team leaders without the greatest of physical tools. Pennington and Brady both knocked for being frail looking. Buchsbaum said about the two of them "Can’t drive the ball down the field"

Kinda weird.
 
Why don't we see what Sage can do before going out and possibly waisting the first round pick and bringing in another young QB. I know he didn't look that good the little we saw of him last year, but he did save us from a shutout when we did see him. What do you think.
 
Lots of similarities actually between Brady, Pennington, Rivers, and of course Drew Brees.

Brees was in a passing attack in college lot like Pennington and Rivers where its very high accuracy lots of passing. But Brees' YPA stayed around 7.0 ypa. Rivers' is at 9.3 ypa thats where I think there's a difference between those two.

The difference between Pennington and Rivers is that Rivers has performed against top defensive competition while Pennington played teams that were almost all worst in general than they were. But for Pennington, he had top form mechanics to go with his accuracy. Thats something Rivers does not, and will not ever have if he keeps that throw motion.
 
Sage is an all-around great athlete. Wonder what he'd do if we started him I think it can't hurt THAT much I mean there's no question he knows the system very well. He has good tools. Seems like whenever he's made a part-time appearance in any games, preseason or real, he's done well. His only game he played with us he was 4/6 for 50 yards and a TD.
 
I know IMO we should just give him a try, I don't think it will hurt us anymore than JF. I mean I'm sure he has been paying a little bit attention to the system. If anything get him a true veteran QB as his backup to school him on any fundamental problems that he might have. I don't even really care who the veteran is, pick somone up cheap from free agency or trade.
 
Oh I'm with you. Currently I think we should sign like a Ricky Ray, let him and Sage compete for the start, then draft Phil Rivers in the first.

Honestly I think we can't lose. I mean, on the one hand you have the chance you're taking on either Ricky Ray or Sage Rosenfels. What I mean is, what would you estimate are the chances that Ricky Ray is the real thing? What are the chances you think of Sage being the real deal? Now what are the chances you think of Phil Rivers turning out to be the real deal?

Basically, the chances of ALL THREE being for real are small, but the chances of one of the three being for real are pretty good. Its not the same as drafting two rookies, like if we traded for Henson and Rivers that would not work because they would be vying for the same position on the team. Two guys like Sage and Ricky Ray are vying for the same spot on the team, starter and backup. You want your backup to be able to step in and lead the team if the starter goes down with injury thats why its good to have two guys compete for that starting role (unless you've got a definite superstar). Meanwhile Rivers comes in and lets face it no Rookie QB comes in and starts and leads his team to victory not since Marino. Even Manning who did like the best of any rookie QB ever, his team went 3-13 his first year. So you have Rivers in a spot where he's gonna be learning for AT LEAST a year, probably two. Then you have Sage and Ricky battling it out for the starter position and you guarantee both of them whoever wins the competition gets two years to show their stuff to the rest of the NFL before there's ANY pressure to get the rookie QB some playing time. There's a good cast here in Miami to surround Sage and Ricky.

Thing is if Ricky or Sage end up lookin really good, we can trade them and get some nice compensation for their talents. Heck if one of them ends up lookin REALLY good, we can trade Phil Rivers I bet in a year or two he only loses 1 round of trade value at most.

I honestly think this is the best way to go. A close second would be to get a veteran and open up the competition between Sage and him, while still getting Rivers. Maybe a little safer in the short term to some people, but I would still prefer taking a few chances to get max rewards at this point. We've not been in the playoffs for 2 years now, if we're not gonna be in the playoffs then at least make sure we're planning for the future.
 
I agree with you, I just want to make sure we are not passing up anything in Sage. Cause if we decide to get rid of him and he turns out to be a all pro QB I will be disgusted. I'm sure I won't get many arguments out of that.
 
Originally posted by ckparrothead
Oh I'm with you. Currently I think we should sign like a Ricky Ray, let him and Sage compete for the start, then draft Phil Rivers in the first.

Honestly I think we can't lose. I mean, on the one hand you have the chance you're taking on either Ricky Ray or Sage Rosenfels. What I mean is, what would you estimate are the chances that Ricky Ray is the real thing? What are the chances you think of Sage being the real deal? Now what are the chances you think of Phil Rivers turning out to be the real deal?

Basically, the chances of ALL THREE being for real are small, but the chances of one of the three being for real are pretty good. Its not the same as drafting two rookies, like if we traded for Henson and Rivers that would not work because they would be vying for the same position on the team. Two guys like Sage and Ricky Ray are vying for the same spot on the team, starter and backup. You want your backup to be able to step in and lead the team if the starter goes down with injury thats why its good to have two guys compete for that starting role (unless you've got a definite superstar). Meanwhile Rivers comes in and lets face it no Rookie QB comes in and starts and leads his team to victory not since Marino. Even Manning who did like the best of any rookie QB ever, his team went 3-13 his first year. So you have Rivers in a spot where he's gonna be learning for AT LEAST a year, probably two. Then you have Sage and Ricky battling it out for the starter position and you guarantee both of them whoever wins the competition gets two years to show their stuff to the rest of the NFL before there's ANY pressure to get the rookie QB some playing time. There's a good cast here in Miami to surround Sage and Ricky.

Thing is if Ricky or Sage end up lookin really good, we can trade them and get some nice compensation for their talents. Heck if one of them ends up lookin REALLY good, we can trade Phil Rivers I bet in a year or two he only loses 1 round of trade value at most.

I honestly think this is the best way to go. A close second would be to get a veteran and open up the competition between Sage and him, while still getting Rivers. Maybe a little safer in the short term to some people, but I would still prefer taking a few chances to get max rewards at this point. We've not been in the playoffs for 2 years now, if we're not gonna be in the playoffs then at least make sure we're planning for the future.
Click to expand...


Add in the fact that Trestman is the QB coach, and there should be a good chance that he turns one of them into something real good..
 
I would have no problem w/ the QB depth chart you're proposing CK, but I get the feeling that the Dolphins don't agree w/ us.
 
Hah yeah I sorta get that feeling too rafael.

But then again with Brunell about to be traded to the Redskins, and the Rams gettin all weird with the Warner situation...it would seem like unless the Phins are ready to give old washups like Garcia and Gannon a shot, they don't have a whole lot of choices in free agency to get someone that will obviously supercede Sage Rosenfels on the depth chart.

So if they don't go with the Rosenfels-Ray-Rivers depth chart they will at the very least be forced to go with the other choice I gave, having a veteran come in and battle Sage for the start then draft a younger guy.

If we don't get Brunell and then we can't trade for like Ramsey or Bulger then I believe the front office will do all they can to either get Henson or Rivers...or maybe even Big Ben or Eli. Thing is, they have to do SOMETHING at the QB situation and with all these other options falling away from them, they'll have no choice but to do something I think they should do...draft a high QB. Otherwise fans might bomb the damn facilities in Davie.
 
I just don't know if Spielman is as interested in Rivers as Marino was. I believe Marino would have helped out on that situation on draft day.

Does anybody know if they are still as interested in him as they were?
 
There is definately some public pressure to get a new QB. I like Garcia and wouldn't mind him here, but my #1 off season priority is a QB for the future. And the truth is that I want Rivers to be that guy. My next 2 goals are upgrades at wr and OL (in no particular order). After that, I might consider a vet QB as a next tier goal, but its a much lower goal.

So I'm not among those that is worried that we may not get a vet QB. I assumed that Miami was seeking both a vet and a future QB. However, if there is any chance that Miami was only seeking 1 QB then I hope all the vet options disappear.
 
The problem with that is, even Ray's own coach says he is not ready for the NFL. He's also from a league that is completely different and would cause some adjustment time.

I think in your scenario unless Rosenfels is a stud in his first year, we're worse than last year and this team is old and getting older on defense w/o anyone reasonable to take their places on the team currently.

I want a proven vet to come in, and then Sage or Rivers back him up. That's the only scenario i like, unless we like Ray better than Sage or something. Then I'd go with Vet, Ray, Rivers or Henson (I'd prefer Henson who turns only 24 Friday)
 
Originally posted by Noland
I just don't know if Spielman is as interested in Rivers as Marino was. I believe Marino would have helped out on that situation on draft day.

Does anybody know if they are still as interested in him as they were?
Click to expand...

My impression was that all the Rivers rumors started after we interviewed him for 45 minutes. It was RS who did that interview, I believe it was the day before Marino even got to the SB.
 
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