Changing & moving,does it matter???

[sleek]

This thread looks at a peculiar era of Dolphins football that came after the "Marino Era". Here is our different head coaches and their records during these years:

Wannstedt 2000 11-5 lost in 2nd rd of the playoffs
Wannstedt 2001 11-5 lost in the 1st rd of the playoffs
Wannstedt 2002 9-7
Wannstedt 2003 10-6
Wan./Bates 2004 4-12
Saban 2005 9-7
Saban 2006 6-10
Cameron 2007 1-15
Sparano 2008 11-5 lost in the 1st rd of the playoffs

So with all the quarterback changes and coaching changes did we really get anywhere? As a dolphins fan it is an era I find humorous, unexplainable, and uncomparable. It just makes no sense I mean was Wanny so bad look at his numbers? What's in a name? Were we that bad we made the playoffs twice with Wanny and almost made it with Saban. Pennington beat the patriots once this year but so did A.J Feeley and so did Joey Harrington. People will say this coach was better and that coach was better and this player was better and that player was better but really is any of it true and does any of it matter?Is Wannstedt's 2001 season any different than Sparano's 2008?Thoughts?

 

[FinFrenzy]

IMO Wanny made reaches at the draft, and tossed picks along with not addressing the QB situation seriously. He kept putting band aids on the QB position,

 

[vans12]

This thread looks at a peculiar era of Dolphins football that came after the "Marino Era". Here is our different head coaches and their records during these years:

Wannstedt 2000 11-5 lost in 2nd rd of the playoffs
Wannstedt 2001 11-5 lost in the 1st rd of the playoffs
Wannstedt 2002 9-7
Wannstedt 2003 10-6
Wan./Bates 2004 4-12
Saban 2005 9-7
Saban 2006 6-10
Cameron 2007 1-15
Sparano 2008 11-5 lost in the 1st rd of the playoffs

So with all the quarterback changes and coaching changes did we really get anywhere? As a dolphins fan it is an era I find humorous, unexplainable, and uncomparable. It just makes no sense I mean was Wanny so bad look at his numbers? What's in a name? Were we that bad we made the playoffs twice with Wanny and almost made it with Saban. Pennington beat the patriots once this year but so did A.J Feeley and so did Joey Harrington. People will say this coach was better and that coach was better and this player was better and that player was better but really is any of it true and does any of it matter?Is Wannstedt's 2001 season any different than Sparano's 2008?Thoughts?

Are you kidding me?? How do I respond to this. Let's see yes Sparano's season was different then Wanny's. Wanny inherited a playoff team that Jimmy Johnson built and ran it into the ground with terible draft choices and horrible personal decisions. Sparano inherited a 1-15 team with nothing. Last year this time we had no idea what kind of team we had. When Wanny started his first year we at least knew we had a defence in place.

Are you really comparing Pennington to AJ Feely and Joey Harrington? Neither AJ or Joey has had any success in this league what so ever. Pennington can at least say he has led 2 different teams to the playoffs.

 

[Zounds]

The difference is that Wanny inherited talent, and Sparano is making it.

 

[sleek]

Are you kidding me?? How do I respond to this. Let's see yes Sparano's season was different then Wanny's. Wanny inherited a playoff team that Jimmy Johnson built and ran it into the ground with terible draft choices and horrible personal decisions. Sparano inherited a 1-15 team with nothing. Last year this time we had no idea what kind of team we had. When Wanny started his first year we at least knew we had a defence in place.

Are you really comparing Pennington to AJ Feely and Joey Harrington? Neither AJ or Joey has had any success in this league what so ever. Pennington can at least say he has led 2 different teams to the playoffs.

If Wanny didn't do anything than who coached the team?, your telling me the players can win with no coach and nobody calling plays? If Sparano inherited a team with nothing how did we go 11-5?,your telling me Sparano can win games without the help of any players?

 

[vans12]

I'm telling you if you missed it Wanny already had the players to field a good playoff team. Sparano inherited a 1-15 team. There is a huge difference between 1-15 team and a team that made the playoffs the year before. The team Wanny coached that year I could have coached and made the playoffs with the talent he had on defense. Sparano coached last years team up big time and won some tight games.

In all the years of watching football I don't know if I saw a team that went 11-5 with as many holes as we had last year. DB, WR, pass rush interior o-line. You name it we had weaknesses.

Comparing Wanny to Sparano is like comparing Bill Parcells to Rich Kotite. Granted Wanny was on his own and Sparano has Parcells and Ireland. The system under Sparano I don't think anyone will argue is much better.

The difference is Wanny's 11-5 team in 2001 started to descend from his bad decisions after that year. Sparano's 11-5 last I believe (and I could be wrong nobody knows for sure) will continue to ascend and get better.

 

[ArmyFin7]

It wasnt a matter of coaching....it was personell decisions. Wanny inherited a great D....and had amazing ideas like "anyone opposite Jt would get sacks" leading to trading Oguleye for Marty Booker! Heres Wannys drafts:

2000
Todd Wade, T (2nd, 53rd)
Ben Kelly, DB (3rd, 84th)
Deon Dyer, FB (4th, 117th)
Arturo Freeman, DB (5th, 152nd)
Ernest Grant, DT (6th, 167th)
Jeff Harris, DB (7th, 232nd)

2001
Jamar Fletcher, DB (1st, 26th)
*Chris Chambers, WR (2nd, 52nd)
Travis Minor, RB (3rd, 85th)
Morlon Greenwood, LB (3rd, 88th)
Shawn Draper, T (5th, 156th)
Brandon Winey, T (6th, 164th)
Josh Heupel, QB (6th, 177th)
Otis Leverette, DE (6th, 187th)
Rick Crowell, LB (6th, 188th)

2002
Seth McKinney, C (3rd, 90th)
Randy McMichael, TE (4th, 114th)
Omare Lowe, DB (5th, 161st)
Sam Simmons, WR (5th, 170th)
Leonard Henry, RB (7th, 241st)

2003
Eddie Moore, LB (2nd, 49th)
Wade Smith, T (3rd, 78th)
Taylor Whitney, G (3rd, 87th)
Donald Lee, TE (5th, 156th)
J.R. Tolver, WR (5th, 169th)
Corey Jenkins, LB (6th, 181st)
Tim Provost, T (6th, 209th)
Yeremiah Bell, DB (6th, 213th)
Davern Williams, DT (7th, 248th)

2004
Vernon Carey, T (1st, 19th)
Will Poole, DB (4th, 102nd)
Tony Bua, LB (5th, 160th)
Rex Hadnot, G (6th, 174th)
Tony Pape, G (7th, 221st)
Derrick Pope, LB (7th, 222nd)

When you draft like that, it's pretty easy to understand how you take a winner and then go 4-12....and if I remember correctly most of those wins were Bates.

 

[phintim]

Change in itself really does hurt as it takes time for systems to take root and coaches and players to dcvelop in them. Many argue that Dave W was one of the worst phin coach's of all the coaches after Don Shula but he had the best record of them all. IMO partly that was because Dave W inherited Jimmy Johnsons system with the players needed to implement it already in palce and stuck with it. So the players Johnson drafted for that system got the chance to stick around and develop. Every other new coach/ general mgr cleaned house on their arrival in Miami which worked against them and did not hang around to really implement their "new system". The exception was last year of course but that being said we still have hurdles to cross to get to the next stage and watching how this years team progresses will be real interesting.

 

[sleek]

I'm telling you if you missed it Wanny already had the players to field a good playoff team. Sparano inherited a 1-15 team. There is a huge difference between 1-15 team and a team that made the playoffs the year before. The team Wanny coached that year I could have coached and made the playoffs with the talent he had on defense. Sparano coached last years team up big time and won some tight games.

In all the years of watching football I don't know if I saw a team that went 11-5 with as many holes as we had last year. DB, WR, pass rush interior o-line. You name it we had weaknesses.

Comparing Wanny to Sparano is like comparing Bill Parcells to Rich Kotite. Granted Wanny was on his own and Sparano has Parcells and Ireland. The system under Sparano I don't think anyone will argue is much better.

The difference is Wanny's 11-5 team in 2001 started to descend from his bad decisions after that year. Sparano's 11-5 last I believe (and I could be wrong nobody knows for sure) will continue to ascend and get better.

I disagree when you say wanny inherited talent and anybody could have coached the team to 11-5. He had one of the biggest holes in history at one of the most important positions at quarterback and he found a way to win thuogh good defense and running the ball. Sparano was not talentless he did have talent on his team with Ricky W ,Ronnie, Ginn, Porter, w.allen, Crowder, Holliday and he had some holes but he also found a way to win with the wildcat and go 11-5

 

[ArmyFin7]

Wanny also had a top5 D to carry the load. The Ravens have struggled to score points for a long time, but their D was able to carry them to a superbowl with Trent Dilfer at QB. If you recall Fiedler was the best QB we've had since Marino until Pennington came along.

 

[Dr. Phin]

Yeah there's a difference...look at the talent those teams had compared to the bunch of "mutts" Sparano had to work with. I love our team...but come on...they have no where the talent those teams did...

 

[NY8123]

I disagree when you say wanny inherited talent and anybody could have coached the team to 11-5. He had one of the biggest holes in history at one of the most important positions at quarterback and he found a way to win thuogh good defense and running the ball. Sparano was not talentless he did have talent on his team with Ricky W ,Ronnie, Ginn, Porter, w.allen, Crowder, Holliday and he had some holes but he also found a way to win with the wildcat and go 11-5

Say what you want about it Jay Fiedler was not that bad at QB. He was every bit as good as say, Trent Dilfer or Matt Hasselbeck. Saying the position was void of talent when Wanny took over is not totally correct. Was there a pro bowl QB ready to step in like Young in SF, no. Was there a game manager that could win games with a good supporting cast, yes.

This regime has the dolphins in better shape via draft, salary cap, physical conditioning, philosophy and overall roster talent (or potential) then there has been for years. If filling the shoes of a QB like Marino, Elway, Favre etc… was easy then Dan, John and Bret wouldn’t have been so special.

 

[cowboy82nd]

If Wanny didn't do anything than who coached the team?, your telling me the players can win with no coach and nobody calling plays? If Sparano inherited a team with nothing how did we go 11-5?,your telling me Sparano can win games without the help of any players?

No we had talent. That's how we went 11-5. And the year before that we had a bad coach and went 1-15. Yes, Wanny had talent enough to go 11-5. But if you remember correctly, everybody was saying (the press included) that we should make it to the Super Bowl. His coaching (or lack there of) effected our playoff run and our future. It takes talent to win in this league, but it also takes someone running the show that knows what's going on.

 

[RockyMtnPhinfan]

Ricky W ,Ronnie, Ginn, Porter, w.allen, Crowder, Holliday


Ok well that is 7 talented players on a roster of 53 if i am correct. Looks like Sparano is a magician if you ask me. This coach, whether you like it or not, will be a part of the biggest 1-15 team turn around in the history of the NFL period.
Here's some players and their respective stats from 2007, the year before Sparano took over.

Porter- like 5.5 sacks the year before
Ginn- not a proven #1 WR yet (34rec for 420yds)
Holliday- good run stuffer but maybe not probowl material
(2sacks/42tackles)
Crowder- still hasn't made the probowl (78 tackles)
Ronnie- coming off a knee injury (he was looking great that year)
Ricky- we were hoping he just makes it through a season (tore a pectoral)
W. Allen- 62 tackles/2 sacks/ 1 int decent but not outstanding

So, you see......Sparano didn't get jack when he took over this team. These coaches did a great job IMO, better that anything i have seen in my lifetime.

 

[Smith21]

Ricky W ,Ronnie, Ginn, Porter, w.allen, Crowder, Holliday


Ok well that is 7 talented players on a roster of 53 if i am correct. Looks like Sparano is a magician if you ask me. This coach, whether you like it or not, will be a part of the biggest 1-15 team turn around in the history of the NFL period.
Here's some players and their respective stats from 2007, the year before Sparano took over.

Porter- like 5.5 sacks the year before
Ginn- not a proven #1 WR yet (34rec for 420yds)
Holliday- good run stuffer but maybe not probowl material
(2sacks/42tackles)
Crowder- still hasn't made the probowl (78 tackles)
Ronnie- coming off a knee injury (he was looking great that year)
Ricky- we were hoping he just makes it through a season (tore a pectoral)
W. Allen- 62 tackles/2 sacks/ 1 int decent but not outstanding

So, you see......Sparano didn't get jack when he took over this team. These coaches did a great job IMO, better that anything i have seen in my lifetime.

if you were going to look up there stats you should of showed how much better each player did..
ginn 34-rec for 420 yards than 55 for 780
crowder 78 tackles than over a 100..
Ronnie... knee injury.. played a full season..
Ricky williams.. didnt smoke pot..
w allen.. had around 50 tackles this year.. but that means that the ball was thrown his way less.. because a corner gets most his tackles after a catch... also had 3 picks..
also porter tripled his sack numbers?
(all stats came from my head.. soooo if there not acurate im sorry =) )