Charles Clay to start at FB???? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Charles Clay to start at FB????

Predaphin said:
I was dissapointed to see polite go, considering he was a probowl player and ran hard to get us the last yard necessary for a first down. But i understand themove. In Dabolls offense, we're not going to be put in that position of 3rd and 1 often. Rather, he prefers a fullback that can catch, ala peyton hillis, in this wide open offense.
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Polite was never in a pro bowl and no one can say we wont be 3 and 1 alot this year
 
Polite didn't get cut because of any sort of fundamental philosophy change. If Polite played well, he'd have been kept. He did not, so we're going without him, and the I-formation will probably see a reduced role unless Charles Clay or Lex Hilliard pick up the slack. Alternately, the I-formation will see a shift, and we'll use the I-formation to pass more with Hilliard and Clay being quality receiving threats, and use two-TE as more of a base running formation if they like Yeatman that much.

Brian Daboll uses fullbacks in his offense. Lawrence Vickers got a lot of snaps last year, and he's a lead blocker, not a psuedo-halfback, or a receiver. He coached in New England, but New England has used lead blocking fullbacks when they had one they liked in Heath Evans. Daboll is just as much "from" the Jets and Brian Schottenheimer's offense, which uses a fullback pretty frequently.
 
so because of daboll is more aggressive than henning all the sudden we wont be running the ball anymore? lol, fiinheaven cracks me up.
 
R&R Express said:
More like 2 years. He was terrible as a blocker his first year as well.
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:ponder:Not so sure about that one. He had a few iffy games in '09 but I think the positives definitely outweighed those; his run blocking was absolutely vital at times. Last year of course is a different story: he was garbage.
 
Traditional FB's are going the way of the dodo bird. Soon every team is going to have a guy like Clay in their backfields.
 
I think we may on use a full back a few times but we will probably stay in shotgun alot
 
A shame, since at one time I thought Polite was part of a good, young nucleus here.
 
j0hnny63 said:
:ponder:Not so sure about that one. He had a few iffy games in '09 but I think the positives definitely outweighed those; his run blocking was absolutely vital at times. Last year of course is a different story: he was garbage.
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I was referring to 2008. He was terrific in 2009, but 2 of 3 bad years and a change in philosophy was the writing on the wall for Polite.
 
Mr. Magoo said:
then Henne would have the freedom to audible
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Good god, man...

First time I turned on the TV today, the channel it was on was showing a great movie, The Last Samurai. Allow me to quote:

"Please forgive, too many mind. Mind the sword, mind the people watch, mind the enemy, too many mind... [pause] No mind."

Please- very little audible.
 
Daboll's offense uses the h-back more than a pure FB. The running game is primarily a single back, one-cut scheme.
 
IluvJuMiami said:
Good god, man...

First time I turned on the TV today, the channel it was on was showing a great movie, The Last Samurai. Allow me to quote:

"Please forgive, too many mind. Mind the sword, mind the people watch, mind the enemy, too many mind... [pause] No mind."

Please- very little audible.
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I like The Last Samurai. Personally I think Zwick has never been able to top Glory in finding a subject that matches his thematic passions for duty and sacrifice, but that's another discussion.

As for your point here, I flat disagree. I think we would all say that there's somewhat more at stake when you're in a sword fight to the death than when you're playing football, but playing quarterback requires a heck of a lot of "mind." It's incredibly complicated, and the guys who don't play with "mind" get sent to the "bench" and then become "unemployed."

Running a no huddle system out of a fixed personnel grouping isn't new. Every team does it in the 2 minute drill and the Bengals were the first to turn it into a full blown offense in the late 80s. The Bills then turned that into their vaunted K Gun and now Peyton Manning runs it out of 11 personnel, taking advantage principally of the versatility of Dallas Clark as a receiver and a blocker.

I'm talking about using it more sparingly, as a package of plays run in the no huddle (or even not, I just think it would be more effective to have predictable personnel) to take advantage of the various ways defenses are going to react to Reggie Bush.

Here's how it would work, in brief. First the defensive personnel grouping, then our counter out of 20 personnel (which, just to repeat, is two running backs, no tight ends. Bush and Thomas next to Henne, who's in the shotgun).

1. Nickel defense. Two linebackers, five defensive backs. Cover 2.

Dolphins counter with: This coverage scheme dictates Bush in man to man coverage on a linebacker, so what you do is motion Bush out as a wide receiver, either to the slot side or not, depending on the route combination you're after. Then you throw the football. Presumably to Bush, but the combination could force the linebacker in coverage on Bess, for instance.

2. Dime defense. One linebacker, six defensive backs. Cover 2.

Dolphins counter with: The defense now has a corner man to man on Bush and a linebacker on Thomas. So as I've said, what you do here is motion Thomas out as a receiver to the "slot" side of the field. If the linebacker follows him, run the football with Bush (he would be facing four down linemen and a corner back against five offensive lineman in this case). If the corner follows Thomas, you could run a "now" screen to Thomas, counting on his physicality to break the tackle against a corner. You could also audible to a pass play trying to get Bush man to man with the linebacker, for instance (if you read man coverage) deep routes by the receivers with a flare route to Bush in the flat.

3. Defense is in dime personnel. But instead of playing two deep, they play single high or three deep coverage, getting the strong safety in the box.

Dolphins counter with: A safety in the box would stop you from doing some of the above (for instance, they could bracket Bush with a linebacker and safety in nickel personnel). The counter here are throws to the wide receivers. If you see single high and man across the board, you take an opportunity to take a shot down the field (hello, Brandon Marshall!) or run some kind of pick play, hoping for a big run after the catch. Against three deep you're breaking those routes off at 10 or 15 yards at the sideline. Easy pitch and catch.

Now, I'm not a coach. I've never been to a seminar or a scouting clinic or any of that. I just like football and enjoy reading up and thinking about strategy. But one thing I do know is what I've laid out here is incredibly rudimentary compared to what these guys actually go through. These are just sketches. I just think this might be a good way to utilize Bush (these particular "counters" focus on ways of getting Reggie Bush the ball, but there are other counters you could run out of this formation and motion action).

The key would be Henne recognizing the way the defense is going to react to the personnel grouping and the motion and then picking the right play. But this is why I think a hurry up would be effective because it would force the defense into more of a vanilla look because of the tempo. With set rules and defensive predictability, Henne should be able to recognize things without too much trouble and then audiblize into an effective play.

A one back, one tight end formation with Bush I don't think presents as much of a threat because in that case a defense isn't quite as worried about the running game or the passing game.

For instance, if a defense comes out in nickel personnel it's harder to burn them because if you motion Bush out of the backfield to make it easier to exploit his man to man matchup on linebacker you've just made the run/pass read elementary. You're throwing the football. With both Thomas and Bush back there, you're still a threat to run if one of them goes in motion. Play action is still an option. It's much more versatile.

Anyway, I hope that isn't too confusing. It would be easier to explain with visual aids, but I'm not good at making them.
 
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MarshallFin1 said:
so because of daboll is more aggressive than henning all the sudden we wont be running the ball anymore? lol, fiinheaven cracks me up.
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Who said we won't be running the football... This is a pass-happy offense compared to last year's 3 & out offense..
You crack me up!!!
 
I'm one of those who say I told you so........

Daboll does not really use a FB. And they want the FB/H-back to be able to play TE as well as to split out wider. C Clay showed during preseason he could move from TE to FB etc.
 
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