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Chris Chambers? Elite WR? - Beating a dead horse

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I like Chambers, and I still think he has a lot of potential. Maybe only as a #2 slot guy, maybe as a #1 with a solid running game and a receiving threat on the other side of the line.

BUT... I am getting sick of people that keep making excuses for him while refusing to acknowledge the facts that: 1) He is maddeningly inconsistent, making the great catch and then letting the critical 3rd down pass bounce off his hands; and 2) he drops *a lot* of balls that should be caught, regardless of who is throwing them. More than he should as a #1, elite WR.

So when I read this in Football Outsiders, I thought i would go ahead and post it. It, unlike some of the overly emotional CC fans, deals with facts. Interesting analysis.

"Chambers’ name has come up a lot at FO over the past 12 months. Why? He’s a fascinating player with the skill set to match, and because the gap between his perceived value and his actual value is so high. Even when his repeated struggles are pointed out, many Dolphins fans will offer him excuses about this year’s model of Dolphins quarterback, even after the starting quarterback count throwing to Chambers touched about 35 this season. It’s worth noting that Chambers had a hand in 74 incompletions this year! That’s 18 and a half drives! That’s two games worth of nothing but incompletions to Chris Chambers on offense.

One of the talking points about Chambers, especially earlier this season, is that he’s a second-half player and would break out in the second half of 2006. He developed this rep after 2005, when he parlayed a big second half into a Pro Bowl berth. If you look at Chambers’ career, he has consistently done better in the second half of the season; he’s caught more passes in Weeks 9-17 than he has in Weeks 1-8 every one of his six campaigns, averaging 10.83 catches more per season. The average NFL player, meanwhile, averages slightly over 2.7 catches more in Weeks 9-17 than they do in Weeks 1-8, which has much to do with the extra week contained within 9-17. NFL players average about 2.07 catches per week.
Do the defenders of Chambers have a point? Do second half players really exist? There’s an easy way to find out — get out the pro-football-reference database again, and do another mini-study.
Testing the theory took separating the performance of all wide receivers from 1996 through 2005 into Weeks 1-8 and 9-17, taking out players who played fewer than 14 games (since a player performing better or worse in a half of the season due to injury in the other half isn’t the argument). 18 guys qualified for the study and had 21 or more receptions in the second half of the season than they did in the first. That year’s performance is Split1; the same split in the year after is Split2.

NameYearSplit1Split2
T.J. Houshmandzadeh20042910
Tai Streets200229-1
Chris Chambers2005263
Koren Robinson20022511
Muhsin Muhammad200424-6
Mike Pritchard199824-2
Ricky Proehl1998244
Keyshawn Johnson1998238
Keenan McCardell2001233
Jimmy Smith199923-7
Rod Smith199923-6
Lee Evans20042212
Bill Schroeder20002217
Reggie Brown200521-6
Eddie Kennison2004214
Johnnie Morton199921-1
Muhsin Muhammad20032124
Marcus Robinson200321-3
Split2 Average2.89

( sorry, this table didn't come out very good, so here is the link to view it:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/02/14/ramblings/four-downs/4952/ )


When you remember that the NFL average improvement in Weeks 9-17 for a given year is 2.71, and notice that the only player who appears twice on this list is Muhsin Muhammad, it seems that this idea is a bit of a myth. "

Chambers needs to improve or resign himself to just being an average WR, and to being paid like one.
:dolphins:
 
Give him a chance under cam this year hopefully they get him to restructure because he doesnt deserve what hesmaking. If he shows up this season with a healthy c pep and a better running game then we go from there. If he doesnt then we think about bringinga legit #1 wr in.
 
I like Chambers, and I still think he has a lot of potential. Maybe only as a #2 slot guy, maybe as a #1 with a solid running game and a receiving threat on the other side of the line.

BUT... I am getting sick of people that keep making excuses for him while refusing to acknowledge the facts that: 1) He is maddeningly inconsistent, making the great catch and then letting the critical 3rd down pass bounce off his hands; and 2) he drops *a lot* of balls that should be caught, regardless of who is throwing them. More than he should as a #1, elite WR.

So when I read this in Football Outsiders, I thought i would go ahead and post it. It, unlike some of the overly emotional CC fans, deals with facts. Interesting analysis.

"Chambers’ name has come up a lot at FO over the past 12 months. Why? He’s a fascinating player with the skill set to match, and because the gap between his perceived value and his actual value is so high. Even when his repeated struggles are pointed out, many Dolphins fans will offer him excuses about this year’s model of Dolphins quarterback, even after the starting quarterback count throwing to Chambers touched about 35 this season. It’s worth noting that Chambers had a hand in 74 incompletions this year! That’s 18 and a half drives! That’s two games worth of nothing but incompletions to Chris Chambers on offense.

One of the talking points about Chambers, especially earlier this season, is that he’s a second-half player and would break out in the second half of 2006. He developed this rep after 2005, when he parlayed a big second half into a Pro Bowl berth. If you look at Chambers’ career, he has consistently done better in the second half of the season; he’s caught more passes in Weeks 9-17 than he has in Weeks 1-8 every one of his six campaigns, averaging 10.83 catches more per season. The average NFL player, meanwhile, averages slightly over 2.7 catches more in Weeks 9-17 than they do in Weeks 1-8, which has much to do with the extra week contained within 9-17. NFL players average about 2.07 catches per week.
Do the defenders of Chambers have a point? Do second half players really exist? There’s an easy way to find out  get out the pro-football-reference database again, and do another mini-study.
Testing the theory took separating the performance of all wide receivers from 1996 through 2005 into Weeks 1-8 and 9-17, taking out players who played fewer than 14 games (since a player performing better or worse in a half of the season due to injury in the other half isn’t the argument). 18 guys qualified for the study and had 21 or more receptions in the second half of the season than they did in the first. That year’s performance is Split1; the same split in the year after is Split2.

NameYearSplit1Split2
T.J. Houshmandzadeh20042910
Tai Streets200229-1
Chris Chambers2005263
Koren Robinson20022511
Muhsin Muhammad200424-6
Mike Pritchard199824-2
Ricky Proehl1998244
Keyshawn Johnson1998238
Keenan McCardell2001233
Jimmy Smith199923-7
Rod Smith199923-6
Lee Evans20042212
Bill Schroeder20002217
Reggie Brown200521-6
Eddie Kennison2004214
Johnnie Morton199921-1
Muhsin Muhammad20032124
Marcus Robinson200321-3
Split2 Average2.89

( sorry, this table didn't come out very good, so here is the link to view it:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/02/14/ramblings/four-downs/4952/ )


When you remember that the NFL average improvement in Weeks 9-17 for a given year is 2.71, and notice that the only player who appears twice on this list is Muhsin Muhammad, it seems that this idea is a bit of a myth. "

Chambers needs to improve or resign himself to just being an average WR, and to being paid like one.
:dolphins:

:deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse

Show them how funky, strong is your fight. It doesn't matter who's wrong or right. Just beat it.
 
Give him a chance under cam this year hopefully they get him to restructure because he doesnt deserve what hesmaking. If he shows up this season with a healthy c pep and a better running game then we go from there. If he doesnt then we think about bringinga legit #1 wr in.

I agree. I like the guy, I think he's a talented receiver. Id like to see some more effort out of him, seems he gives up on quite a few plays instead of fighting DB's for the ball... but all that junk aside... I agree.. He should restructure his deal... then I give him this year to prove what he's got, then its decision time.
 
I agree. I like the guy, I think he's a talented receiver. Id like to see some more effort out of him, seems he gives up on quite a few plays instead of fighting DB's for the ball... but all that junk aside... I agree.. He should restructure his deal... then I give him this year to prove what he's got, then its decision time.
I agree that CC is extremely talented... unfortunately there are tons and tons of "talented" former NFL players in which that talent never translated to the field. Similarly, many "untalented" guys like Steve Largent, end up being one of the top WR's/players of all time. Takes more than mad skills, speed, or talent...
 
I like Chambers, and I still think he has a lot of potential. Maybe only as a #2 slot guy, maybe as a #1 with a solid running game and a receiving threat on the other side of the line.

BUT... I am getting sick of people that keep making excuses for him while refusing to acknowledge the facts that: 1) He is maddeningly inconsistent, making the great catch and then letting the critical 3rd down pass bounce off his hands; and 2) he drops *a lot* of balls that should be caught, regardless of who is throwing them. More than he should as a #1, elite WR.

So when I read this in Football Outsiders, I thought i would go ahead and post it. It, unlike some of the overly emotional CC fans, deals with facts. Interesting analysis.

"Chambers’ name has come up a lot at FO over the past 12 months. Why? He’s a fascinating player with the skill set to match, and because the gap between his perceived value and his actual value is so high. Even when his repeated struggles are pointed out, many Dolphins fans will offer him excuses about this year’s model of Dolphins quarterback, even after the starting quarterback count throwing to Chambers touched about 35 this season. It’s worth noting that Chambers had a hand in 74 incompletions this year! That’s 18 and a half drives! That’s two games worth of nothing but incompletions to Chris Chambers on offense.

One of the talking points about Chambers, especially earlier this season, is that he’s a second-half player and would break out in the second half of 2006. He developed this rep after 2005, when he parlayed a big second half into a Pro Bowl berth. If you look at Chambers’ career, he has consistently done better in the second half of the season; he’s caught more passes in Weeks 9-17 than he has in Weeks 1-8 every one of his six campaigns, averaging 10.83 catches more per season. The average NFL player, meanwhile, averages slightly over 2.7 catches more in Weeks 9-17 than they do in Weeks 1-8, which has much to do with the extra week contained within 9-17. NFL players average about 2.07 catches per week.
Do the defenders of Chambers have a point? Do second half players really exist? There’s an easy way to find out  get out the pro-football-reference database again, and do another mini-study.
Testing the theory took separating the performance of all wide receivers from 1996 through 2005 into Weeks 1-8 and 9-17, taking out players who played fewer than 14 games (since a player performing better or worse in a half of the season due to injury in the other half isn’t the argument). 18 guys qualified for the study and had 21 or more receptions in the second half of the season than they did in the first. That year’s performance is Split1; the same split in the year after is Split2.

NameYearSplit1Split2
T.J. Houshmandzadeh20042910
Tai Streets200229-1
Chris Chambers2005263
Koren Robinson20022511
Muhsin Muhammad200424-6
Mike Pritchard199824-2
Ricky Proehl1998244
Keyshawn Johnson1998238
Keenan McCardell2001233
Jimmy Smith199923-7
Rod Smith199923-6
Lee Evans20042212
Bill Schroeder20002217
Reggie Brown200521-6
Eddie Kennison2004214
Johnnie Morton199921-1
Muhsin Muhammad20032124
Marcus Robinson200321-3
Split2 Average2.89

( sorry, this table didn't come out very good, so here is the link to view it:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/02/14/ramblings/four-downs/4952/ )


When you remember that the NFL average improvement in Weeks 9-17 for a given year is 2.71, and notice that the only player who appears twice on this list is Muhsin Muhammad, it seems that this idea is a bit of a myth. "

Chambers needs to improve or resign himself to just being an average WR, and to being paid like one.
:dolphins:

remember bad thread get one star :wink:
 
I agree that CC is extremely talented... unfortunately there are tons and tons of "talented" former NFL players in which that talent never translated to the field. Similarly, many "untalented" guys like Steve Largent, end up being one of the top WR's/players of all time. Takes more than mad skills, speed, or talent...

You are wrong. You say that there are tons of talented NFL players that NEVER translated that to the field.


were you hibernating in 2005?

watch the 2nd bills game and you will see what kind of WR we have when someone other than Joey Harrington throws the ball at him.

Imagine what kind of player chambers can be with a healthy daunte?

the man dominated the NFL with GUS/SAGE as his QB's, but you seem to lump him into the same group as john avery/yatil green(I know there were very different situations, but im just using them as an example of nfl talent not being in the nfl)?

WR's do not have the option to throw the ball to themselves, they need a qb to give them a chance. CC needs cPep, and we got a super bowl. yes i said it give us a healthy 2004 like daunte and our top tier D and we are playing in AZ!!!! :ricky:
 
You are wrong. You say that there are tons of talented NFL players that NEVER translated that to the field.


were you hibernating in 2005?

watch the 2nd bills game and you will see what kind of WR we have when someone other than Joey Harrington throws the ball at him.

Imagine what kind of player chambers can be with a healthy daunte?

the man dominated the NFL with GUS/SAGE as his QB's, but you seem to lump him into the same group as john avery/yatil green(I know there were very different situations, but im just using them as an example of nfl talent not being in the nfl)?

WR's do not have the option to throw the ball to themselves, they need a qb to give them a chance. CC needs cPep, and we got a super bowl. yes i said it give us a healthy 2004 like daunte and our top tier D and we are playing in AZ!!!! :ricky:

Dude if you think that Joey was the only problem Chambers has in his way of becoming a pro bowl receiver you should stop smoking the ganja!

As for 2005 season Chambers had one incredible game that in my opinion allowed him to become pro bowl it sure wasn't his consistancy because other teams shut him down or he shut himself down way to manY times to be pro bowl!!
15 receptions for 238 yards and 1 td aginst Buffalo
but what about his incredible performance at Clevland
3 receptions for 12 yards with 0 tds
4 receptions for 34 yards with 1 td versus Jets
3 receptions for 40 yards with 0 tds versus Atlanta
4 receptions for 25 yards with 1 td versus N.O.
3 receptions for 50 yards with 0 tds versus Tampa
4 receptions for 60 yards with 0 tds versus Bills
3 receptions for 21 yards with 0 tds versus the Jets
5 receptions for 40 yards with 0 tds versus Denver

In these 8 games he had 282 yards with 2 touch downs
versus 1 incredible game with 238 yards and 1 td

If these stats dont show how inconsistant he was even in his BEST year
then I give up but dont think for a minute that he would have been pro bowl
if he didn't have that incredible game in Buffalo.

I still think that year there were more deserving players that should have made the pro bowl before Chambers and if you look up the stats of the top receivers that year you will see the same.

PLEASE...CHAMBERS DOMINATED THE NFL IN 2005:shakeno:
I LIVE IN REALITY NOT ON FANTASY ISLAND
 
Did the study factor in how many of the WR's were learning an new offence or playing with a new QB?

I doubt it because I can't hink of many teams who have had the same type of QB,OC carousel that we've asked Chambers to play 'elite' in.
 
Chambers is overrated, this coming from a guy who used to love him.

He really only showed up not even midway through 2005.

Chris is a lazy WR, doesn't make plays on the ball if they're underthrown, drops too many easy balls, and doesn't exactly "burn" any defenders.

His best season overall was 2003. He was a go-to guy that year...no, he didn't have 1,000 yards, but he had 13 TDs and made a lot of big catches. he was a spark to that nonexistent offense.

In 2005, a lot of his second half stats were inflated by that 238 yard game, although he did do well.
 
Did the study factor in how many of the WR's were learning an new offence or playing with a new QB?

I doubt it because I can't hink of many teams who have had the same type of QB,OC carousel that we've asked Chambers to play 'elite' in.

The Arizona Cardinals...and they've produced several 1,000 yard receivers in the last decade.
 
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