CK's Mock Draft 3/27/09

[fishypete]

Indeed, we did nail the Ginn and Allen picks.

The only picks I've wanted to change so far were:

1. Sneaking Knowshon into the first round. He's falling but someone will take him.

2. Probably flip-flopping the Eagles and Ravens picks. I am thinking the Eagles will go with Maclin first and the Ravens would go with Heyward-Bey after that. The Ravens just recently sent Joe Flacco over to throw some passes with Heyward-Bey.

Every mock draft is "one of the worst I've seen" to some people out there. The bottom line is you either know what you're talking about and are ready to back up your opinion with a knowledge of the facts...or you don't.

Fact of the matter is, by the time I got to the #25 pick, I see a lot of people off the board. Much as I wish they'd take him, I don't see Miami having interest in Jarron Gilbert.

Much as I'm tempted to have them take Darius Butler or Sean Smith, I refuse to project them using a first round pick on a cornerback UNTIL I see Parcells and Ireland sign off on taking a corner high in the draft. Right now, the history just is not there. There is no proof that Jeff Ireland wanted Terrance Newman, and we know for a fact that Parcells wanted Kevin Williams in that draft and was told by Larry Lacewell and Jerry Jones that they would be taking Newman instead. Looking at the draft history aside from Newman (who was an override), when have you ever seen Parcells or Ireland use a high pick on a cornerback? I don't even know if they have ever selected one in the second or third round, to be honest. Look at their free agency dealings. Last year everyone SCREAMED for some more corners. What did they do? They didn't even sign one, let alone draft one. Now, we lose Andre Goodman, and everyone screams again for a corner. One by one the better cornerbacks get snapped up, and nothing from Miami...until they get the super dynamic and all world prospect ERIC GREEN. These guys don't value the corner position that highly IMO.

So I'm standing here looking at our options at #25 given whom I have going where...and who else would we take?

Laurinaitis? For a 3-4 defense? Really?

Receiver? I believe a receiver is possible, but Nicks is already off the board and I have a real tough time projecting underclassmen track stars who never met a pro receiver route they liked all the way at #25 in the draft. On the other hand, Kenny Britt IS a possibility if things fall the way I have them. Just, not necessarily the possibility that I see in Michael Johnson.

Who else? Ziggy Hood and Peria Jerry gone. Robert Ayers gone. B.J. Raji LONG gone. Aaron Maybin gone. No Brian Orakpo or Everette Brown (though I personally don't know if I'd take them anyway). No Clay Matthews, Rey Maualuga or Brian Cushing...gone, gone, gone.

So, who? No QBs, no RBs, no OTs, no OCs, probably no OGs, probably no TEs, probably no CBs (again, IMO), no Safeties...

That leaves:

Kenny Britt
Jeremy Maclin (or Darius Heyward-Bey)
Percy Harvin
Ron Brace
Jarron Gilbert
Michael Johnson
Connor Barwin
Larrry English
James Laurinaitis

Like I said, Laurinaitis in a 3-4? Not seeing it. Also, unfortunately, not seeing interest in Gilbert. A defensive tackle that can't crack a 5.5 going at #25? Not seeing it. An underclassman who never met a pro receiver route he liked? Not seeing it.

The realistic possibilities are Kenny Britt, Connor Barwin, Michael Johnson and Larry English. Among those, English' grade is not holding up. He didn't play good competition and he's not testing out well. At this point I'm not sure what he has as a prospect that Paul Kruger does not. If you're going to go with a prospect of THAT particular nature, you can wait until the second round. Kenny Britt, very possible but I'm just not quite sold. Connor Barwin or Michael Johnson? Both test out just as well. People want to say that Johnson is more of an underachiever, but why? Barwin was a backup tight end at Cincinnati for years despite all of that athleticism. He performed well on defense this year but he goes from tight end one year, to defensive end the next year, to linebacker the year after that? I do NOT see that. The guy is raw as an onion, and can make you cry as much as one too if you try and put him out at linebacker early and expect him to "get it" right away. He doesn't even "get" defensive end. Now he's supposed to "get" linebacker? Not to mention I've seen the guy pass rush and I'm not totally convinced he's the same quality pass rusher as Michael Johnson. Johnson has been taking on pro quality prospects and beating them for years...he just wasn't a started until this year because he didn't have the stamina.

Last year around this pick they brought in a guy in Phil Merling whom they knew could make an impact as a role player, but whom they knew needed a while in their off season training and conditioning program before he'd be ready to do anything special. I see Michael Johnson as much the same way.

Could I change the pick? Yeah. Like I said, I think they could go with Kenny Britt, MAYBE even Darius Butler or Sean Smith even though it would be basically the first time they've ever valued a CB that high...maybe Connor Barwin too, though I have a hunch on Johnson. And, if something leads me to change my mock to where I have Maybin, Matthews or Cushing dropping to #25, I would have any of those guys going over Michael Johnson.

But this is how I have it.

It's your pick CK...but I bet you change between now and draft day. Just a few question's though....do you select a player with a first round pick that needs to be motivated? How long does it take to get stamina? Three years? Here's the fun part...of course you know that M.J. wasn't a DE when he came out of high school....he was a TE.

"One of the nation's top tight ends who is projected to play defensive end … Rated the No. 7 tight end in the nation by scout.com … Ranked the No. 2 prospect in Alabama by scout.com and the No. 13 player in the state by Rivals.com … Tabbed to the Southeast Top 100 (No. 30) by scout.com … Named to the all-area team by the Selma Times Journal … Team captain and Most Valuable Player for coach Richard Bush at Dallas County High in Plantersville, Ala. … Caught 42 passes for 650 yards and six touchdowns as a senior while making 92 tackles and 14 sacks … Added 25 receptions for 300 yards and three touchdowns as a junior … Also an outstanding basketball player who averaged 16 points and 10 rebounds as a junior."

I won't say this guy is a bum...he's not...but he has too many questions...and too few answer's about him...to be a first rounder. If he was a great DE...one could rationalize him at 25...but he wasn't great....even his best season wasn't a great one and thats why most websites have him rated a second rounder.

 

[fullerboy1]

Everyone who´s saying "This player will not go here and this player will go there" how do you know for sure, CK only gave his opinion and you can like it or leave it.

Some of you act like he ask for a kidney, heck.. I don´t like half of the mocks that I see but I never get negative about what we all speculate on.

Thanks fishypete for keeping the discussion intelligent.

 

[fishypete]

Everyone who´s saying "This player will not go here and this player will go there" how do you know for sure, CK only gave his opinion and you can like it or leave it.

Some of you act like he ask for a kidney, heck.. I don´t like half of the mocks that I see but I never get negative about what we all speculate on.

Thanks fishypete for keeping the discussion intelligent.

Your welcome....CK has his right to who he believes in...and as a fan and a friend...I'm just trying to understand his thought process. We don't have to agree...but we should be gentlemen about that.

 

[ckparrothead]

It's your pick CK...but I bet you change between now and draft day. Just a few question's though....do you select a player with a first round pick that needs to be motivated? How long does it take to get stamina? Three years? Here's the fun part...of course you know that M.J. wasn't a DE when he came out of high school....he was a TE.

"One of the nation's top tight ends who is projected to play defensive end … Rated the No. 7 tight end in the nation by scout.com … Ranked the No. 2 prospect in Alabama by scout.com and the No. 13 player in the state by Rivals.com … Tabbed to the Southeast Top 100 (No. 30) by scout.com … Named to the all-area team by the Selma Times Journal … Team captain and Most Valuable Player for coach Richard Bush at Dallas County High in Plantersville, Ala. … Caught 42 passes for 650 yards and six touchdowns as a senior while making 92 tackles and 14 sacks … Added 25 receptions for 300 yards and three touchdowns as a junior … Also an outstanding basketball player who averaged 16 points and 10 rebounds as a junior."

I won't say this guy is a bum...he's not...but he has too many questions...and too few answer's about him...to be a first rounder. If he was a great DE...one could rationalize him at 25...but he wasn't great....even his best season wasn't a great one and thats why most websites have him rated a second rounder.

First off, of course I know he was a TE convert. But, unlike Connor Barwin, Johnson made the switch to the defensive side of the football years ago.

His season was a lot better than he is being given credit for. The reason he has a bum rep is because of expectations. Everyone has known his potential for years. They see his frame. They know he can run a 4.50, jump a mile, etc. They have expected him to be the next Lawrence Taylor and when he comes out something different, they view him negatively.

The difference between him and Connor Barwin is that everyone hasn't known about Barwin until this year. They didn't know he could run a 4.50 at that high weight. They didn't know he could jump a mile. They didn't know he had such athletic potential.

If they did, they'd have been booing him for years for being nothing more than a backup tight end.

 

[fishypete]

First off, of course I know he was a TE convert. But, unlike Connor Barwin, Johnson made the switch to the defensive side of the football years ago.

His season was a lot better than he is being given credit for. The reason he has a bum rep is because of expectations. Everyone has known his potential for years. They see his frame. They know he can run a 4.50, jump a mile, etc. They have expected him to be the next Lawrence Taylor and when he comes out something different, they view him negatively.

The difference between him and Connor Barwin is that everyone hasn't known about Barwin until this year. They didn't know he could run a 4.50 at that high weight. They didn't know he could jump a mile. They didn't know he had such athletic potential.

If they did, they'd have been booing him for years for being nothing more than a backup tight end.

Or another way of looking at this could be....perhaps they would have BOOED the headcoach for misusing his obvious talent....then again...didn't Cinn have a TE already on the roster playing..I believe Celek was his name....plays for the Eagles.

 

[ckparrothead]

Or another way of looking at this could be....perhaps they would have BOOED the headcoach for misusing his obvious talent....then again...didn't Cinn have a TE already on the roster playing..I believe Celek was his name....plays for the Eagles.

Yes. A 5th round pick, they had Bent Celek. And the potential 1st round pick Connor Barwin with all of this ridiculous athleticism was an unproductive second-fiddle to the 5th round pick Celek who did not have great athletic ability.

The bottom line is both players were inconsistent this year. Both players have been underachievers. Both players have great tangibles. The primary difference between the two is that while nobody knew what to expect of Barwin this year, every team that played Georgia Tech knew that Michael Johnson was THE guy to keep an eye on among defensive linemen. Another difference being that Johnson is 3 inches taller, and more physically imposing. Another difference being that Johnson beat some of the best tackles in the country, including Eugene Monroe.

They're both projects. You could go with either one and it wouldn't matter much. But I don't like how all of these people that dislike the Johnson pick come at me claiming that Barwin would be such a better pick, because essentially they're the same thing with different skin color.

 

[DuderinoN703]

Indeed, we did nail the Ginn and Allen picks.

The only picks I've wanted to change so far were:

1. Sneaking Knowshon into the first round. He's falling but someone will take him.

2. Probably flip-flopping the Eagles and Ravens picks. I am thinking the Eagles will go with Maclin first and the Ravens would go with Heyward-Bey after that. The Ravens just recently sent Joe Flacco over to throw some passes with Heyward-Bey.

Every mock draft is "one of the worst I've seen" to some people out there. The bottom line is you either know what you're talking about and are ready to back up your opinion with a knowledge of the facts...or you don't.

Fact of the matter is, by the time I got to the #25 pick, I see a lot of people off the board. Much as I wish they'd take him, I don't see Miami having interest in Jarron Gilbert.

Much as I'm tempted to have them take Darius Butler or Sean Smith, I refuse to project them using a first round pick on a cornerback UNTIL I see Parcells and Ireland sign off on taking a corner high in the draft. Right now, the history just is not there. There is no proof that Jeff Ireland wanted Terrance Newman, and we know for a fact that Parcells wanted Kevin Williams in that draft and was told by Larry Lacewell and Jerry Jones that they would be taking Newman instead. Looking at the draft history aside from Newman (who was an override), when have you ever seen Parcells or Ireland use a high pick on a cornerback? I don't even know if they have ever selected one in the second or third round, to be honest. Look at their free agency dealings. Last year everyone SCREAMED for some more corners. What did they do? They didn't even sign one, let alone draft one. Now, we lose Andre Goodman, and everyone screams again for a corner. One by one the better cornerbacks get snapped up, and nothing from Miami...until they get the super dynamic and all world prospect ERIC GREEN. These guys don't value the corner position that highly IMO.

So I'm standing here looking at our options at #25 given whom I have going where...and who else would we take?

Laurinaitis? For a 3-4 defense? Really?

Receiver? I believe a receiver is possible, but Nicks is already off the board and I have a real tough time projecting underclassmen track stars who never met a pro receiver route they liked all the way at #25 in the draft. On the other hand, Kenny Britt IS a possibility if things fall the way I have them. Just, not necessarily the possibility that I see in Michael Johnson.

Who else? Ziggy Hood and Peria Jerry gone. Robert Ayers gone. B.J. Raji LONG gone. Aaron Maybin gone. No Brian Orakpo or Everette Brown (though I personally don't know if I'd take them anyway). No Clay Matthews, Rey Maualuga or Brian Cushing...gone, gone, gone.

So, who? No QBs, no RBs, no OTs, no OCs, probably no OGs, probably no TEs, probably no CBs (again, IMO), no Safeties...

That leaves:

Kenny Britt
Jeremy Maclin (or Darius Heyward-Bey)
Percy Harvin
Ron Brace
Jarron Gilbert
Michael Johnson
Connor Barwin
Larrry English
James Laurinaitis

Like I said, Laurinaitis in a 3-4? Not seeing it. Also, unfortunately, not seeing interest in Gilbert. A defensive tackle that can't crack a 5.5 going at #25? Not seeing it. An underclassman who never met a pro receiver route he liked? Not seeing it.

The realistic possibilities are Kenny Britt, Connor Barwin, Michael Johnson and Larry English. Among those, English' grade is not holding up. He didn't play good competition and he's not testing out well. At this point I'm not sure what he has as a prospect that Paul Kruger does not. If you're going to go with a prospect of THAT particular nature, you can wait until the second round. Kenny Britt, very possible but I'm just not quite sold. Connor Barwin or Michael Johnson? Both test out just as well. People want to say that Johnson is more of an underachiever, but why? Barwin was a backup tight end at Cincinnati for years despite all of that athleticism. He performed well on defense this year but he goes from tight end one year, to defensive end the next year, to linebacker the year after that? I do NOT see that. The guy is raw as an onion, and can make you cry as much as one too if you try and put him out at linebacker early and expect him to "get it" right away. He doesn't even "get" defensive end. Now he's supposed to "get" linebacker? Not to mention I've seen the guy pass rush and I'm not totally convinced he's the same quality pass rusher as Michael Johnson. Johnson has been taking on pro quality prospects and beating them for years...he just wasn't a started until this year because he didn't have the stamina.

Last year around this pick they brought in a guy in Phil Merling whom they knew could make an impact as a role player, but whom they knew needed a while in their off season training and conditioning program before he'd be ready to do anything special. I see Michael Johnson as much the same way.

Could I change the pick? Yeah. Like I said, I think they could go with Kenny Britt, MAYBE even Darius Butler or Sean Smith even though it would be basically the first time they've ever valued a CB that high...maybe Connor Barwin too, though I have a hunch on Johnson. And, if something leads me to change my mock to where I have Maybin, Matthews or Cushing dropping to #25, I would have any of those guys going over Michael Johnson.

But this is how I have it.

Way to stick it to them CK. :hi5:

 

[zach8111]

i HATE michael johnson pick, not productive in college and he is ALL potential. He is just like Gholston, a COMBINE FREAK and thats it...

 

[fishypete]

Yes. A 5th round pick, they had Bent Celek. And the potential 1st round pick Connor Barwin with all of this ridiculous athleticism was an unproductive second-fiddle to the 5th round pick Celek who did not have great athletic ability.

The bottom line is both players were inconsistent this year. Both players have been underachievers. Both players have great tangibles. The primary difference between the two is that while nobody knew what to expect of Barwin this year, every team that played Georgia Tech knew that Michael Johnson was THE guy to keep an eye on among defensive linemen. Another difference being that Johnson is 3 inches taller, and more physically imposing. Another difference being that Johnson beat some of the best tackles in the country, including Eugene Monroe.

They're both projects. You could go with either one and it wouldn't matter much. But I don't like how all of these people that dislike the Johnson pick come at me claiming that Barwin would be such a better pick, because essentially they're the same thing with different skin color.

CK...Why bring up skin color? Perhaps the reason people seems to like Barwin...and myself included...is because he has more speed and more importantly agility than Johnson. I know you know, what a half of a second difference means in the three cone....thats the difference between what Barwin and Johnson ran. You also know that there's a difference between a 4.61 and a 4.48.

The main difference in your thoughts are he's 3 inches taller....well who had the higher verticle? Barwin.

It's a month away from the draft....perhaps we will both change our minds and selections...time will tell.

 

[ckparrothead]

CK...Why bring up skin color? Perhaps the reason people seems to like Barwin...and myself included...is because he has more speed and more importantly agility than Johnson. I know you know, what a half of a second difference means in the three cone....thats the difference between what Barwin and Johnson ran. You also know that there's a difference between a 4.61 and a 4.48.

The main difference in your thoughts are he's 3 inches taller....well who had the higher verticle? Barwin.

It's a month away from the draft....perhaps we will both change our minds and selections...time will tell.

I don't want to turn this into a skin color debate but honestly, when was the last time you ever heard a white player (non-QB) deemed an "underachiever"? I don't think this is the reason but it probably factors into it on some minor subconscious level.

I find it interesting that you think Barwin is faster. Again, here's evidence of the double standard. At his Pro Day, some stopwatches had Johnson as low as 4.49. At the Cincinnati Pro Day, some stopwatches had Barwin as low a 4.48. Essentially about the same.

Not that it matters much, since Johnson is 3 inches taller and 15 pounds heavier. The increased frame outweighs the minor differences in their athletic measurements.

As for production, Johnson was very productive this season. Anyone that tries to tell you different, just doesn't know the facts.

 

[SR 7]

wow

and i got grilled for questioning why everyone is obsessed with CK? There's no way Parcells takes Michael Johnson.

lol

what a joke!

ive been saying this for a long time now.
Jenkins is NOT a CB. He will get toasted in theNFL as a CB, hes a Safety not a CB in the NFL. I've said this for the past 6 months now.

also, glenn dorsey was a huge favorite of his and boomers and they both said he would be a NT in a 3-4 and miami would pick him and not Long b/c Jake Long can't be a LT in the nfl while i said Dorsey is NOT a NT in the NFL i got hammered for this and grilled.
They compared Dorsey's size to Jamaal Williams, Hampton, WIlfork etc and said b/c of the size he can be a NT. Its not just about size. As we saw with the Grove signing as he isn't that much bigger or taller then Satele.

Funny thing is Dorsey now might be on the block b/c he isn't going to fit the 3-4 scheme that they may run...and long turned out to be a Pro bowl LT...hmm...interesting aint it?

Don't get me wrong they are good posters with good in depth information but its not always the best information but people act it is just b/c the posts are over 2000 words of information. They even attacked me just b/c I pointed out why I don't believe Dorsey is a NT and Long is a LT and in result I got suspended for 2 weeks or something while they got off the hook just b/c of the love they receive on this board. So its either Agree with their posts or don't comment. Or thats how it was before at least not sure now.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Dorsey, Waters could be Trade Bait[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]...The Kansas City Chiefs could use Defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey and Guard Brian Waters as trade bait in the weeks leading up to the draft, or on draft day itself. Dorsey, the Chiefs first-round pick in 2008, isn't an ideal fit for the Cheifs new 3-4 scheme, and Waters is seeking a trade out of Kansas City. The Chiefs have just one pick within the top 66 picks in the draft, which isn't enough for Scott Pioli and his rebuilding plans for the team. The Chiefs will know by draft day if Dorsey is in their plans, since the Chiefs have a voluntary minicamp scheduled for April 17-19, which is just days before the Draft. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]-Al Fronczak
[/FONT]​

 

[phintim]

You probably hate to hear this question after getting so much flak on the 1 round draft but any way you guys might post thru the 1st 3 rounds CK?

 

[ckparrothead]

i got hammered for this and grilled.

Hey look, I'm playing the world's smallest violin.

I love how everyone's got to be their own special butterfly, to where if any of us dare to express disagreement, or offer argument, about a certain position, and we dare to use facts and evidence to support our opinion...all the sudden, with the magic of hindsight, it turns into being "grilled" or having people "scoff" at them. You're the martyr, right? You'll show them all! (some day...)

What exactly have you been right about with respect to Dorsey? Some local journalist speculated that he might be traded and this proves you're right?

The Draft is an inexact science, people disagree all of the time. I can't count the number of times I've been wrong on draft prospects. But I also can't count the number of times I've been right. If you like the mock, so be it. If you don't, so be it. If you disagree, say so. But going on this big long self-fellating tirade about "Oh I was so right where he was so wr-wr-wr-wrong" just makes you look foolish.

 

[ckparrothead]

You probably hate to hear this question after getting so much flak on the 1 round draft but any way you guys might post thru the 1st 3 rounds CK?

We're thinking about it. We've got a pretty full plate, though.

 

[SR 7]

Hey look, I'm playing the world's smallest violin.

I love how everyone's got to be their own special butterfly, to where if any of us dare to express disagreement, or offer argument, about a certain position, and we dare to use facts and evidence to support our opinion...all the sudden, with the magic of hindsight, it turns into being "grilled" or having people "scoff" at them. You're the martyr, right? You'll show them all! (some day...)

What exactly have you been right about with respect to Dorsey? Some local journalist speculated that he might be traded and this proves you're right?

The Draft is an inexact science, people disagree all of the time. I can't count the number of times I've been wrong on draft prospects. But I also can't count the number of times I've been right. If you like the mock, so be it. If you don't, so be it. If you disagree, say so. But going on this big long self-fellating tirade about "Oh I was so right where he was so wr-wr-wr-wrong" just makes you look foolish.

I never said you were so wr-wr-wr-wr-wrong. you are being a kid again just as you were last time we had this arguement about the whole dorsey and long situation.

its funny how everyone believes Dorsey can't be a NT in the NFL from Scouts, to GM, to Coaches and yet you still think he can? Lucky for finheaven we have you, too bad we dont have a finheaven team in the NFL so you can put a team together b/c apparently you know better then a current great Pioli.

I simply said you are not ALWAYS right. why get so offended about it? its a MESSAGE Board. Thats all. I even said you post good in depth information but b/c i said one small part you aren't always right you got so upset and defensive. Sorry I dont kiss your butt like everyone else. You act like a diva celebrity where its your way or the highway and if anyone says anything close to a "I dont agree or hey i dont think you are right on this player" it becomes a presonal attack and u leash out on them. Everytime you respond like that makes it seem like you have nothing else to build on social wise but a message board rep and fan base.

Its that attitude of yours that doesnt allow people to respect everything you say or do. I even talked about your site and how its a good job in progress etc and you still can't find a way to be nice to ppl that still disagree.