Clyde "the glide" Gates | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Clyde "the glide" Gates

AJ Green.... 1057 yards 7 tds
Julio Jones...959 yards...8 tds
Torrey Smith...841 yards...7 tds
Doug Baldwin...788 yards...4 tds
Greg Little...708 yards...2 tds
Denarius Moore...618 yards...5tds
Titus Young...607 yards...6 tds

all rookies who out performed the wide receivers left on this team

Davone Bess...537 yards...3 tds
Brian Hartline...549 yards...1 td
Clyde Gates ...19 yards...0 tds
Marlon Moore...0 yards...0 tds
Julius Pruitt....0 yards....0 tds
Roberto Wallace 0 yards...0 tds

Worst wide receiver group in the NFL

Hell ted ginn jr had beck and lemon throwing to him and put up 420 yds and 3 TD (1 rushing)

ginn also had 56 for 790 in year 2 with pennington... Not saying much and definitely not 1st round pick type of guy, but a worthy role player who should still be here and we may have seen a better marshall... Ginn wouldn't do crap on this team now though (as i have seen him doubled against Pittsburgh or teams that actually knew how to play D)

Need a Blackmon, Floyd, GT WR, Jeffery and a TY Hilton/FA signing to even attempt to save this WR core.
 
^^ lol at bringing Ted Ginn into the conversation!!

As of today ... Ted Ginn is the highest ranked WR Free Agent .... aaaaiiieeee!!! Guess that means we'll rely on the draft for WR.
 
AJ Green.... 1057 yards 7 tds
Julio Jones...959 yards...8 tds
Torrey Smith...841 yards...7 tds
Doug Baldwin...788 yards...4 tds
Greg Little...708 yards...2 tds
Denarius Moore...618 yards...5tds
Titus Young...607 yards...6 tds

all rookies who out performed the wide receivers left on this team

Davone Bess...537 yards...3 tds
Brian Hartline...549 yards...1 td
Clyde Gates ...19 yards...0 tds
Marlon Moore...0 yards...0 tds
Julius Pruitt....0 yards....0 tds
Roberto Wallace 0 yards...0 tds

Worst wide receiver group in the NFL

Damn that is horrible. Either our offensive coordinator sucked, our qb sucked, or all these guys sucked. I think I know the answer but I'll leave that for another thread.
 
there you go spewing misinformation again... it was the same. 12 targets for gates, 12 drops for marshall..

gates caught 2 of 12 targets.. or 16%
marshall caught 81 of 141 targets.. or 57%

furthermore...

gates dropped 1/12 passes... or 8%
marshall dropped 12/141 passes ... or 8%

what point were you trying to make again???

You aren't going to win any battle with BM and his "notable" drops being that they were game changing TDs - not necessarily wins but if you ever played the sport and had a TD called back or a potential TD you WOULD concede that these kinds of drops effect the whole team

Not to forget to mention the time bomb in the locker room - throwing his QB under busses - selfish penalties, running out of bounds on potential TDs VS. the Jets - the list goes on and on

Gates was never given an opportunity like Ginn or BM

Point of it all - BM wasn't going to see the ball if he wasn't open in Philbin/Shermans Offense and that wouold be much more than BM could take because he cannot run precise routes or likley learn a play book he tkes his money and runs towards trouble -

No one will argue taht he cannot put up a 3 TD performance against anyone but history tells us taht he won't put a season together - his stats are collectively "garbage stats" his pro bowls are a joke - Andre Goodman & Co. shut him down and we went and got fleeced the next sesaon for 2 seconds rounds we got "taken to the shed" - time to move on
 
AJ Green.... 1057 yards 7 tds
Julio Jones...959 yards...8 tds
Torrey Smith...841 yards...7 tds
Doug Baldwin...788 yards...4 tds
Greg Little...708 yards...2 tds
Denarius Moore...618 yards...5tds
Titus Young...607 yards...6 tds

all rookies who out performed the wide receivers left on this team

Davone Bess...537 yards...3 tds
Brian Hartline...549 yards...1 td
Clyde Gates ...19 yards...0 tds
Marlon Moore...0 yards...0 tds
Julius Pruitt....0 yards....0 tds
Roberto Wallace 0 yards...0 tds

Worst wide receiver group in the NFL

At this stage, w/o Marshall it is a pretty bad group . . . probably right there with Cleveland as the worst one in the NFL. But putting the stats of the guys w/o Marshall isn't fair to them as our QB's went out of there way to force the ball to Brandon and at times even I wondered why they weren't utilizing Davone Bess more.

Also posting the stats of other rookie WR's have little to do with the future impact of Clyde Gates on this team.
 
At this stage, w/o Marshall it is a pretty bad group . . . probably right there with Cleveland as the worst one in the NFL. But putting the stats of the guys w/o Marshall isn't fair to them as our QB's went out of there way to force the ball to Brandon and at times even I wondered why they weren't utilizing Davone Bess more.

Also posting the stats of other rookie WR's have little to do with the future impact of Clyde Gates on this team.

thats where i disagree... I did the research, brandon marshalls targets stayed consistent for two years here... and it was about 30-35 targets less than he averaged a year in denver.
how can his targets stay the same, (actually fell five), and we can turn around and say they were forcing the ball to him..

henne loved to throw to bess.. bess has 122 targets two years ago.. he led the team in targets in a handful of games.
last year is when bess' production dropped off... but it's not because marshall suddenly had 40 more passes thrown his way.

guys like reggie bush, clay, and fasano saw more balls. and it was also mostly due to henne going down.. I think if henne stayed in the game, bess' production likely wouldn't have dropped off so much.

last year for targets...
reggie bush 52
charles clay 25
anthony fasano 54 ( although his numbers have been steady for about three years around the 50 target mark)

I am hopeful that clyde gates can prosper, but I am quite skeptical. he seems to me to be just a straight line speed guy... It took the guy all year to finally hit a sideline on a kickoff return and it got him something like 70 yards....
 
thats where i disagree... I did the research, brandon marshalls targets stayed consistent for two years here... and it was about 30-35 targets less than he averaged a year in denver.
how can his targets stay the same, (actually fell five), and we can turn around and say they were forcing the ball to him..

henne loved to throw to bess.. bess has 122 targets two years ago.. he led the team in targets in a handful of games.
last year is when bess' production dropped off... but it's not because marshall suddenly had 40 more passes thrown his way.

guys like reggie bush, clay, and fasano saw more balls. and it was also mostly due to henne going down.. I think if henne stayed in the game, bess' production likely wouldn't have dropped off so much.

last year for targets...
reggie bush 52
charles clay 25
anthony fasano 54 ( although his numbers have been steady for about three years around the 50 target mark)

I am hopeful that clyde gates can prosper, but I am quite skeptical. he seems to me to be just a straight line speed guy... It took the guy all year to finally hit a sideline on a kickoff return and it got him something like 70 yards....

Amongst the WR's we were forcing him the ball, compare the WR targets from the previou year to this year . . . and then we can ratio the numbers. I guarantee you it will look like we were forcing the ball to Brandon more than our other WRs.

Which is why it is irresponsible to consider our WR group poor based on stats with Marshall on the team when A. We aren't adding the receptions from TE's and RB's and B. We clearly were forcing the ball to Brandon more this year in comparison to our other WR's.

That being said, it isn't a great group and it has skyrocketed to the #1 need in the offseason (outside of a QB).
 
Amongst the WR's we were forcing him the ball, compare the WR targets from the previou year to this year . . . and then we can ratio the numbers. I guarantee you it will look like we were forcing the ball to Brandon more than our other WRs.

Which is why it is irresponsible to consider our WR group poor using stats when A. We aren't adding the receptions from TE's and RB's and B. We clearly were forcing the ball to Brandon more this year in comparison to our other WR's.

well in all honesty, whos going to throw the ball more to brian hartline, clyde gates or julius pruit... over brandon marshall? gates hardly saw the field, pruitt didnt.

I will be more than happy to do the research, I'm also curious to see the results. I will try to do a cumulutive two year research and just for knowledges sake, I will just use all RB, TE, slot and WR targets in the data...
 
well in all honesty, whos going to throw the ball more to brian hartline, clyde gates or julius pruit... over brandon marshall? gates hardly saw the field, pruitt didnt.

I will be more than happy to do the research, I'm also curious to see the results. I will try to do a cumulutive two year research and just for knowledges sake, I will just use all RB, TE, slot and WR targets in the data...

Thats cool, and appreciated because I'm interested also. Don't get me wrong, we need to upgrade this group, hell I am working on a mock draft that has me taking 2 WR's and 1 TE in the first 4 picks . . . .which is what I think about the Pruitt's, Wallace's and Moore's of this team, along with the Yeatmans and Mastrud's (who we just resigned).

And I agree with some of the intent behind forcing the ball to Brandon, hell he was our best player on offense . . . what I don't agree with is comparing Gates stats to other rookie WR's and using that as an indiciation that he isn't capable of making strides this year. Gates was already a guy that we knew would take a year or so because he had some rawness to his game, but the potential was there. I think he can make strides this year and should not be discounted because f his stats last season.
 
give you some quick numbers to look at and I'll be back after changing some wheel bearings.. I was not able to find any targets for the roberto wallace, or marlon moore who I was sure we threw the ball to some.. but I did get quite a bit of other info.. if anybody can find anything on anyone I missed, feel free to add..

format will be player name, targets in 2010, targets in 2011

brandon marshall 146 141
brian hartline 73 66
clyde gates NA 12
anthony fasano 60 54
daniel thomas NA 16
reggie bush NA 52
davone bess 122 85
steve slaton NA 4
charles clay NA 25


as you can see every WR's targets dropped.. only bess' dropped significantly, and just at a quick glance, I would say the culprit is reggie bush and charles clay..

be back later fellas.
 
there you go spewing misinformation again... it was the same. 12 targets for gates, 12 drops for marshall..

gates caught 2 of 12 targets.. or 16%
marshall caught 81 of 141 targets.. or 57%

furthermore...

gates dropped 1/12 passes... or 8%
marshall dropped 12/141 passes ... or 8%

what point were you trying to make again???

You aren't going to win any battle with BM and his "notable" drops being that they were game changing TDs - not necessarily wins but if you ever played the sport and had a TD called back or a potential TD you WOULD concede that these kinds of drops effect the whole team

Not to forget to mention the time bomb in the locker room - throwing his QB under busses - selfish penalties, running out of bounds on potential TDs VS. the Jets - the list goes on and on

Gates was never given an opportunity like Ginn or BM

Point of it all - BM wasn't going to see the ball if he wasn't open in Philbin/Shermans Offense and that wouold be much more than BM could take because he cannot run precise routes or likley learn a play book he tkes his money and runs towards trouble -

No one will argue taht he cannot put up a 3 TD performance against anyone but history tells us taht he won't put a season together - his stats are collectively "garbage stats" his pro bowls are a joke - Andre Goodman & Co. shut him down and we went and got fleeced the next sesaon for 2 seconds rounds we got "taken to the shed" - time to move on
 
Just maybe the main culprit in the lesser amount of "targets" or completions is the simple fact that in 2009 our QBs attempted 548 and completed 331. In 2010 they attempted 554 passes and completed 335. But in 2011 they only attempted 471 passes and competed 280. This one stat has to be taken into account if you are trying to compare catches by WRs etc.

The combined catches from our running backs was less in 2011 then in 2009 and 2010. Which again considering less attempts, that makes sense.

Fasano has had about the same amount of completions the last 3 seasons, 31, 39 and 32. We did throw a lot more to "other" TEs in 2009. 22 completions in 2009, 2 in 2010 and maybe 12 in 2011 (hard to break down if Clay caught the passes as a TE or FB but most of his catches was as a TE)

Marshall caught 81 passes in 2011 and 86 in 2010 which considering the 83 fewer attempts in 2011 does work out to a larger percentage of passes thrown to him.

But years from now when people look at B Marshall legacy here in his final year, this is what will be remembered:

He "admitted" that he has a mental illness.
He caught 6 TD passes and dropped at least 5 of them.
But the overwhelming Marshall moment will be when against the Jets he told everyone the week before that he was going to be a "monster" and get himself thrown out of the game. Then someone made the decision to force the ball to him for most of the game. But the real "Marshall moment" was when near the goalline, in trying to push D Revis back, he tripped over his feet, Revis stepped to the side allowing Marshall to fall forward, then Revis then took the pass that was coming to Marshall (no matter if he was open or not) back 100 yards for a TD. Thus making a 3-0 game into a 3-7 game which turned into a 24-6 Jets win which was credited with helping "turn the Jet's season around".

Career wise he will be remembered for:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Marshall
[h=3]Awards and honors[/h]
[h=3]NFL Records and milestones[/h]
[h=3]Pro Bowl records[/h]
  • Most Receiving Touchdowns in single game with (4)
But his on the field "accomplishments" will always be measured against his off the field ones: (there is a reason that he has been traded twice)

According to Orlando-Orange County public records (case 48-2004-MM-012392-O), on Halloween 2004, while a student at UCF, Marshall was arrested in Orlando on charges of assault on a law enforcement officer, refusal to obey, disorderly conduct and resisting an officer.[SUP][57][/SUP]
On January 1, 2007, Marshall was present at "The Shelter," a nightclub in Denver, Colorado, along with teammates Javon Walker and Darrent Williams. The trio was attending a birthday party held for and by Denver Nuggets forward Kenyon Martin. As the players were leaving the club in a limousine, Williams was fatally shot in the neck after an unknown assailant opened fire on the vehicle. Willie Clark was later charged with the murder.[SUP][58][/SUP] Walker has stated in interviews that the shooter was likely a nightclub patron whose motive was retaliation after being involved in an altercation with Marshall's cousin earlier that night.[SUP][59][/SUP][SUP][60][/SUP]
On March 26, 2007, Marshall was arrested in the Highlands Ranch suburb of Denver on suspicion of domestic violence after his girlfriend reported that following a domestic dispute, Marshall prevented a taxi she was in from leaving his house.[SUP][61][/SUP] Charges from the incident were later dismissed on May 25, 2007, after Marshall completed anger management counseling.[SUP][62][/SUP]
In the early morning of October 22, 2007, Marshall was arrested in the Denver-Aurora metropolitan area at the intersection of 14th and Blake St. for driving under the influence of alcohol.[SUP][63][/SUP] A trial was scheduled for September 16, but Marshall instead agreed to a plea bargain four days earlier; he pleaded guilty to a reduced charge of driving while ability impaired.[SUP][64][/SUP] He was sentenced to one-year probation and 24 hours of community service.
On June 12, 2008, Marshall was ticketed for an illegal lane change, then found to be without his license and proof of insurance.[SUP][65][/SUP] The case was eventually dropped as part of a plea bargain for the October 22, 2007 driving incident involving alcohol.[SUP][64][/SUP]
According to an article published in the Rocky Mountain News on July 28, 2008, Douglas County deputies fielded "about 11" calls to Marshall's home since January 2006. The article stated that one call resulted in Marshall being arrested (the March 26, 2007 domestic dispute), and some did not involve him at all.[SUP][66][/SUP]
A September 17, 2008 article on CompleteColorado.com stated that the solicitor's office in Fulton County, Georgia filed misdemeanor battery charges on September 10 for an alleged incident on March 4, 2008, in Atlanta, Georgia. Marshall was booked on March 6, then released the next day after posting a $1,000 cash bond.[SUP][67][/SUP] The case was assigned to Judge John Mather in Georgia state court.[SUP][68][/SUP] On August 14, 2009, a jury in Atlanta found Marshall not guilty.[SUP][69][/SUP]
On March 1, 2009, Marshall was arrested in Atlanta for disorderly conduct after allegedly being involved in a fight with his fiancee, Michi Nogami-Campbell. Marshall was released on a $300 bond.[SUP][70][/SUP] The charges were dropped the following day.[SUP][71][/SUP]
On April 23, 2011, Marshall was stabbed near his stomach by his wife, Michi Nogami-Marshall. He was taken to a hospital and was released two days later. He is expected to make a full recovery.[SUP][72][/SUP][SUP][73][/SUP]
It was later revealed by police that Marshall's wife did make a brief 911 call, but it only described an unspecified emergency and no mention of a stabbing ever took place. She is charged with aggravated battery with a deadly weapon and is free on $7,500 bail.
In a South Florida Sun-Sentinel article published on July 30, 2011, it was revealed that Marshall was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder at Boston's McLean Hospital after his incident with Nogami-Campbell.[SUP][74][/SUP] He is currently pursuing treatment for his mental illness and filming a documentary about his struggle.
On early Sunday, March 11, 2012, two days before his trade to the Bears, Marshall was accused of hitting a woman in the face at a New York club and being involved in a melee. The New York Post stated that Marshall, his wife and some friends were at Marquee when a brawl ensued, and Marshall punched the woman below her left eye, although he may have been attempting to hit the woman's friends.

Lets not forget his
suspensions and being benched while a Bronco and these two among other Hi-Lights.



On March 22, 2008, Marshall slipped on an empty McDonald's bag while "wrestling" with family members, and subsequently, fell through a television set at his home in Orlando, Florida - cutting his right forearm.[SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Marshall#cite_note-sliparminjury-21[/SUP][SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Marshall#cite_note-22[/SUP][SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Marshall#cite_note-espnmarshallinjury-23[/SUP] According to Broncos head athletic trainer Steve Antonopulos, Marshall "sustained right forearm lacerations to one artery, one vein, one nerve, two tendons and three muscles. [SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Marshall#cite_note-espnmarshallinjury-23[/SUP]He was treated at a local hospital and later released after needing a cast and several stitches. In early April, Marshall had the cast removed from his surgically repaired right forearm and was in a sling until May.[SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Marshall#cite_note-24[/SUP] He was cleared in late-June to practice with the Broncos.[SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Marshall#cite_note-25[/SUP] He later revealed that his right hand was numb during the entire 2008 season.[SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Marshall#cite_note-26[/SUP]


Marshall officially received a three-game suspension from the NFL on August 5, 2008, due to his off-the-field issues.[SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Marshall#cite_note-27[/SUP] He appealed the decision and won the appeal, reducing the punishment to a one-game suspension and a fine of two combined game checks, which totaled $52,353.[SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Marshall#cite_note-28[/SUP]

Marshall received attention for an attempted touchdown celebration during the Broncos' 34-30 comeback road victory over the Cleveland Browns, as part of a Thursday Night Football matchup on November 6, 2008.[SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Marshall#cite_note-2008broncosbrowns-32[/SUP]With over a minute left in the game, Marshall caught the go-ahead touchdown pass and then began to pull a glove from his pants. Denver wide receiver Brandon Stokley rushed over to Marshall to urge him to put the glove away, as it could be considered a touchdown celebration prop, which is against NFL rules (a 15-yard penalty on the kickoff could be assessed)

Thus suggesting that just maybe his ego is more important to him then his team winning the football game.

Fawn over him as much as you can without throwing up, but IMO, the guy is much more trouble then he is worth.


[SUP]
[/SUP]
 
I decided to also break it down by % distribution to players from 2010 and 2011 the only two years we had brandon marshall.

theres actually 554 pass attempts by qbs in 2010.. http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?season=2010&team=MIA&seasonType=

and theres actually 469 pass attempts by qbs in 2011 http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?season=2011&team=MIA&seasonType=

heres the percentage breakdown of targets to notable players...

brandon marshall 2010.. 146 targets of 554 attempts.. 26%
brandon marshall 2011.. 141 targets of 469 attempts.. 30%

brian hartline 2010.. 73 targets of 554 attempts.. 13%
hartline 2011.. 66 targets of 469 attempts.. 14%

fasano 2010.. 60 of 554.. 10%
fasano 2011... 54 of 469 11%

DT 2011.. 16 of 469 3%

Reggie Bush 2011.. 52 of 469.. 11%

davone bess 2010.. 122 of 554 22%
bess 2011 85 of 469 18%

charles clay 2011.. 25 of 469 5%


it's pretty easy to see that marshall had an increase of 4%, and bess had an decrease of 4%.. while fasano, hartline, basically stayed the same.
whats hard to tell without doing further research is where marshalls increase came from and bess' decrease came from.

if you dig a bit deeper you can see that ronnie brown had 42 targets in 2010 for 7%, and ricky williams had 30 targets for 5%...

i think the wildcard is charles clay...
when comparing runningbacks, reggie bush had 52 targets and dt had 16.. giving the RB 68 targets.. throw in steve slatons 4 and we'll have 72..
in 2010, RW, RB, and Polite had a combined 89 targets..

where do we put clays targets at? with the runningbacks to bump it to 97, or with the Tight ends to bump it to 79 for the TES instead of 54?

theres no denying marshalls % distribution went up.. but I dont think it means that the qbs forced the ball to marshall like everyone says they did..

there were 25 more rushing plays in 2011..

in 2010, marshall and bess combined for 48% of the targets.. in 2011 they combined for 48% of the targets..
in 2010 hartline and fasano had 23% of the targets and in 2011 they had 25% of the targets.

if you only count RW, polite, and RB in 2010, they accounted for 15% of the targets

until we can decide where to put clay at.. we'll go Reggie DT and slaton in 2011 for a tick over 14% of the targets.

anybody know a way to come up with a guess of how many targets everyone else would get if we had 85 more attempts...

i suppose you could use the averages from the 2 years to come up with a number from 85 more pass attempts, but thats not very accurate IMO, as you just have no idea how those next 85 pass attempts may go.. marshall could get 60 of the 85 attempts.. how do you tell?


i did do a little extra work on marshall in denver...

07.. 170 targets 515 attempts.. 33%
08.. 182 targets 620 attempts.. 29%
09.. 154 targets 558 attempts.. 27%

***note that I do not know if these attempts were all by qbs or if there are any RB, or WR who had pass attempts.. just a comparison to how the distributed the targets in comparison to miami.. also i did not include marshalls rookie season... discuss
 
a quick list of brandon marshall vs other 2nd round draft picks for the dolphins...

pat white
john beck
eddie moore
matt roth
samson satele
aj feely..(trade for culpepper)
chad henne
daniel thomas
koa misi
sean smith

can anybody pick out two off that list that contributes more than marshall did? hindsight is 20/20, but I'd rather have marshalls 2 year production than any combo of 2 of gentlemen off that list...
 
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