Coaches overrated on a team? | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Coaches overrated on a team?

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Marc790

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I don't mean to start another war after the last few posts I started, but, really, why are we putting such an emphasis on getting a coach? Perhaps it's just my opinion, but any coach will do ...

How much, in the grand scheme of things, can a coach influence? What's the difference between, say, Nick Saban and a Lovey S., Marty S., Mike H., Brian B., Bill C., or any other successful coaches?

The answer? The players. In Chicago, they have a top-notched defense. The Chargers are winning because of LT. Seattle went to the Super Bowl last year because of Alexander's break-out year, the Ravens won a few years ago because of a punishing defense and running game, and the Patriots constantly win because of Tom Brady.

In the end, put DW or Saban on a team like those and they can win, too. Really, how can a sweep left or a slant or any play be that different from one coach to another? It can't. What it comes down to, then, is the players we have.

So, why not focus on getting better players rather than hiring a top-notch coach? Would Mike Martz have won anything without Warner and Faulk and the greatest show on turf? No! Would Pete C. have won at USC without guys like Palmer and Leinart? Probably not? The same thing applies with the Dolphins.

Right now, I'd be happy with Art Shell being our coach. Just give me Manning, Alexander, and Steve Smith on offense and a few key players on defense.

Thoughts?
 
I dont know I think the Patsys would fall on there face if they did not have Bellichek.
Although I do agree that some coach's are overated like Brian Billick.
 
So glad you're not in charge of picking our coach, Art Shell? Took a bad Raiders team and made them twice as bad.

Coaching is key to winning games, the talent level in the NFL is so high that it is not as much about the talent as it is about the schemes, play calling, motivation, and game planning. Last time I heard, no player has anything to do with those aspects of the game.

1 star
 
PhinsRDbest said:
I dont know I think the Patsys would fall on there face if they did not have Bellichek.
Although I do agree that some coach's are overated like Brian Billick.
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Speaking of Billichick, remember when he was supposed to take over the Jets but bolted to New England? I don't think the Jets fans reaction was ever as harsh as ours.

Give Billichick that piece-of-crap Browns or Raiders team and see what he could do.
 
PhinsRock said:
So glad you're not in charge of picking our coach, Art Shell? Took a bad Raiders team and made them twice as bad.

Coaching is key to winning games, the talent level in the NFL is so high that it is not as much about the talent as it is about the schemes, play calling, motivation, and game planning. Last time I heard, no player has anything to do with those aspects of the game.

1 star
Click to expand...

On that note, if I were in charge, I might just bring back Bobby Ross.
 
Coaching is key to winning games, the talent level in the NFL is so high that it is not as much about the talent as it is about the schemes, play calling, motivation, and game planning. Last time I heard, no player has anything to do with those aspects of the game
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.

He hit the nail on the head. Coaching in the NFL is the great equalizer in the NFL. The personnel process is absolutely important, but the salary cap and free agency tend to eventually equal out the talent pool. That's why you see coaches like Belichik have long-lasting success without the most talented players. Sean Payton and Eric Mangini also found success by maximizing there schemes to fit the talent available. If it was all about talent, more college coaches could come in and have success.
 
Woah Im not even touching this one.....you sure you dont have baseball and football mixed up or something? Because what your saying is absolutely insane.
 
PBFloyd said:
:sidelol:
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:boohoo: Hey now, at least Ross took a bum quarterback to the Super Bowl. Which is more than I can say with Pete Carroll.

I don't want Carroll. What did he ever do with the Patsies?
 
Marc790 said:
I don't mean to start another war after the last few posts I started, but, really, why are we putting such an emphasis on getting a coach? Perhaps it's just my opinion, but any coach will do ...

How much, in the grand scheme of things, can a coach influence? What's the difference between, say, Nick Saban and a Lovey S., Marty S., Mike H., Brian B., Bill C., or any other successful coaches?

The answer? The players. In Chicago, they have a top-notched defense. The Chargers are winning because of LT. Seattle went to the Super Bowl last year because of Alexander's break-out year, the Ravens won a few years ago because of a punishing defense and running game, and the Patriots constantly win because of Tom Brady.

In the end, put DW or Saban on a team like those and they can win, too. Really, how can a sweep left or a slant or any play be that different from one coach to another? It can't. What it comes down to, then, is the players we have.

So, why not focus on getting better players rather than hiring a top-notch coach? Would Mike Martz have won anything without Warner and Faulk and the greatest show on turf? No! Would Pete C. have won at USC without guys like Palmer and Leinart? Probably not? The same thing applies with the Dolphins.

Right now, I'd be happy with Art Shell being our coach. Just give me Manning, Alexander, and Steve Smith on offense and a few key players on defense.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

My thoughts are, that not you personally, but that notion, is insane.

Look book through history. It was no accident that Tom Landry continuously won with different QBs, different RBs, different defenses. Same with Shula here and Bud Grant in Minnesota.

Its no accident that Parcells has won everywhere hes gone.

Marty Shottenheimer also is a good example.

Dave Wannstedt failed everywhere he went. So did Rich Kotite. So did Dennis Erickson.

Great players are an important piece..but to underestimate coaching is to ignore very obvious results.
 
Marc790 said:
I don't mean to start another war after the last few posts I started, but, really, why are we putting such an emphasis on getting a coach? Perhaps it's just my opinion, but any coach will do ...

How much, in the grand scheme of things, can a coach influence? What's the difference between, say, Nick Saban and a Lovey S., Marty S., Mike H., Brian B., Bill C., or any other successful coaches?

The answer? The players. In Chicago, they have a top-notched defense. The Chargers are winning because of LT. Seattle went to the Super Bowl last year because of Alexander's break-out year, the Ravens won a few years ago because of a punishing defense and running game, and the Patriots constantly win because of Tom Brady.

In the end, put DW or Saban on a team like those and they can win, too. Really, how can a sweep left or a slant or any play be that different from one coach to another? It can't. What it comes down to, then, is the players we have.

So, why not focus on getting better players rather than hiring a top-notch coach? Would Mike Martz have won anything without Warner and Faulk and the greatest show on turf? No! Would Pete C. have won at USC without guys like Palmer and Leinart? Probably not? The same thing applies with the Dolphins.

Right now, I'd be happy with Art Shell being our coach. Just give me Manning, Alexander, and Steve Smith on offense and a few key players on defense.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

You're exactly right. Belichick wasn't considered a genius until Tom Brady ascended as his QB. I honestly think that our focus should be to find a top shelf GM, or let Mueller get some more power. Much of our offense needs to be rebuilt. Less an X's and O's thing and more a job for a top personnel man...
 
PhinsRock said:
Coaching is key to winning games, the talent level in the NFL is so high that it is not as much about the talent as it is about the schemes, play calling, motivation, and game planning. Last time I heard, no player has anything to do with those aspects of the game.
Click to expand...

Bingo.
 
YES! Coaching is vastly overrated in every sport at every level.

Below is a response I posted in another thread yesterday about this subject:
------------------

Coaching is so overrated it's ridiculous. Great players make "great coaches."

The most important we have to do is get a great personnel department in place and hire a great leader for the head coaching position.

Probably the most important qualities a head coach needs are intelligence, great leadership skills, and great organizational ability. Nobody fits that bill better than Mike Singletary. The man is a football legend and was as smart a defensive player as there ever was. Plus, he's as classy as they come off the field. What other candidate out there could come close to garnering the respect from the players that he would??

Does anyone really think that someone like Tomlin who is 34 has more knowledge of the game just because he made the defensive calls for the Vikings for one season?? Give me a break...

And what about Cameron, the guy did nothing at IU and is only being mentioned for jobs now because he's been lucky enough to have LT, Gates, Brees, Rivers, etc. playing for him. Does anyone think either of those guys, or anyone else out there for that matter, would provide the presence and generate the tremendous respect that Mike Singletary would?? I sure don't.

I believe we've got a chance to make an historic hire here with MS. Let's don't blow this and go hire some flavor-of-the-week coordinator or college bum who only have names because of the talented players under them. If we don't hire him now someone else will real soon and I guarantee we'll regret it in the future.

Let's combine an extremely intelligent, classy, respected LEADER with a great personnel dept. and get this organization back where it belongs...on top!!

HIRE MIKE SINGLETARY!!!
 
Let's look at losing teams and winning teams. Losing teams usually have crappy coaches. Winning teams usually have good coaches. SOmetimes a good coach isn't given the time or talent needed to make a losing team good.

It's like movies. A bad director can really screw a great script, big budget and quality actors. A good director can make a great masterpiece with crap to work with, no name actors and limited budget.
 
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