Coaching Vs Talent?

[Perfect72]

Do the Dolphins have the TALENT to be a contending team and simply bad coaching?
Or
The Dolphins have decent coaches and poor talent base?

Some here are saying clean house completely and start all over again.
Then, the Dolphins are basically an expansion team again looking at 4-5 years to contend.

Also, some of the coaches are highly regarded (e.g. Mike Nolan). Look how many coaches have stunk in Miami; then are great at their next stop (e.g. Dom Capers wins SB w/ Packers).
Players: Brandon Marshall tearing up the league, then comes to Miami and can't catch a cold. Do you trade him? If so, for what?

Are the Dolphins close talent-wise? Do they change coaches and look for the few missing pieces (Nip/Tuck) or blow it up?

 

[hightempo]

Do the Dolphins have the TALENT to be a contending team and simply bad coaching?
Or
The Dolphins have decent coaches and poor talent base?

Some here are saying clean house completely and start all over again.
Then, the Dolphins are basically an expansion team again looking at 4-5 years to contend.

Also, some of the coaches are highly regarded (e.g. Mike Nolan). Look how many coaches have stunk in Miami; then are great at their next stop (e.g. Dom Capers wins SB w/ Packers).
Players: Brandon Marshall tearing up the league, then comes to Miami and can't catch a cold. Do you trade him? If so, for what?

Are the Dolphins close talent-wise? Do they change coaches and look for the few missing pieces (Nip/Tuck) or blow it up?

well what does contending mean EXACTLY? good enough to beat the patriots 51 out of 100 times if the season were played 100 times? then no we arent good enough, and we never will be until we have a Quarterback that is at least good enough to be on the same field as brady.

this team is good enough to win with good coaching. depth is a huge problem. there are positions on the field that we have holes that cant be filled with the current roster. we could be a very very good team if we brought in maybe 15 players that werent bottom of the roster type guys. we need very good players at key positions to compete. QB, OLB, CB. right now we have a huge hole at RT, NDB, FS - positions that are being filled by guys that shouldnt even be playing in the NFL right now with their level of development - they should never be counted on to see the field. those 3 holes alone have already cost us wins.

so the gap is tremendous if you look at it one way, and really not that big if you look at it another. its a matter of perspective. we find a franchise QB, and EVERYTHING changes. those holes wont look nearly the same. we need a QB, and a guy that knows how to coach - a guy that knows how to build a TEAM, knows how to bring 53 guys together

 

[gdiaz0358]

Its def bad coaching... theres a reason EVERY SINGLE PERSON that plays/works for Miami becomes garbage. Have you not noticed the trend of players the come to Miami and suck? Marshall being the most recent, Dansby, Burnett, and Bush...WE can not develop talent, and the coaches are either not utilizing the players correctly and/or not training the players correctly. Bush is not a every down back no matter what anyone says, he is a great weapon on any offense ala Danny Woodhead in NE, or Brad Smith in Buffalo. These players are to be used a specific way and ONLY that way!! Dansby looks worst the Crowder now and same for Burnett, and these 2 guys were supposed to be the 2 best "cover" LBers in the league and they make Colt Mccoy and Ben Watson look like pro-bowlers. Do you blame the dline? I dont...they should be able to cover guys like this, if you told me it was Gates, Finley, or even Dallas Clark then id say its not bad, but Watson?? Thats like Fasano burning you!! We have not developed our draft picks or FAs. All of the players on this roster are at a plateau...Davis has the talent and potential to be a top tier CB, but he looks like a rookie out there because of lack of coaching...Inconsistency and terrible coaching has us in this hole....

 

[islandah]

It's coaching and the lack of a franchise qb, both of which should be addressed next year. It's an easy argument to indict the coaching, for several reasons:
- These raw,talented players are not improving under this coaching staff, they are regressing. You have only to look at their #1 pick, Jake Long. He started out dominant, and has slowly regressed every year, doubling his sacks given up from the previous year each year he's been here. Vontae Davis, Sean Smith, Koa Misi - all played better coming off their college coaching and have gotten worse while here.
- Proven top players taken in FA have also not performed in a way that they've proven they can elsewhere - Dansby, Marshall, Bush, Burnett - all proven commodoties, all underperforming their past play.
- The insistence on taking Dallas free agents, years after they've had any experience with them. Colombo- 'nuff said.
- Their absolute inability to see the obvious and insistence on not using the strengths of their players - Bush between the tackles rather than getting him the ball in space, not enough jump balls to Marshall when single covered or in the red zone, Carey to guard (should have traded him while he still had the reputation as a good RT), not enough deep passes to Gates to back the safeties off
- their blind faith in Henne (who they benched twice last season), not allowing any competition for the position, and lack of foresight going into the season with just one 3rd string cast-off back-up; even if they felt Henne was the answer at qb, did they not consider the possibility of injury!!?
- and, although not their fault, the lame duck culture on this team, which contributes to ackluster play on both sides of the ball.

IMO, we have enough talent to at least compete, but we need a new HC and certain staff, and they need to hand pick their franchise qb with our high first round pick. Then we will start to get more out of the talent we have here. Unfortunately, this year seems to be a waste. I'd shut down Long and any other proven players with nagging injuries, and get the rookies as much experience as possible, and be ready for next year.

 

[Etuoo33]

It's coaching and the lack of a franchise qb, both of which should be addressed next year. It's an easy argument to indict the coaching, for several reasons:
- These raw,talented players are not improving under this coaching staff, they are regressing. You have only to look at their #1 pick, Jake Long. He started out dominant, and has slowly regressed every year, doubling his sacks given up from the previous year each year he's been here. Vontae Davis, Sean Smith, Koa Misi - all played better coming off their college coaching and have gotten worse while here.
- Proven top players taken in FA have also not performed in a way that they've proven they can elsewhere - Dansby, Marshall, Bush, Burnett - all proven commodoties, all underperforming their past play.
- The insistence on taking Dallas free agents, years after they've had any experience with them. Colombo- 'nuff said.
- Their absolute inability to see the obvious and insistence on not using the strengths of their players - Bush between the tackles rather than getting him the ball in space, not enough jump balls to Marshall when single covered or in the red zone, Carey to guard (should have traded him while he still had the reputation as a good RT), not enough deep passes to Gates to back the safeties off
- their blind faith in Henne (who they benched twice last season), not allowing any competition for the position, and lack of foresight going into the season with just one 3rd string cast-off back-up; even if they felt Henne was the answer at qb, did they not consider the possibility of injury!!?
- and, although not their fault, the lame duck culture on this team, which contributes to ackluster play on both sides of the ball.

IMO, we have enough talent to at least compete, but we need a new HC and certain staff, and they need to hand pick their franchise qb with our high first round pick. Then we will start to get more out of the talent we have here. Unfortunately, this year seems to be a waste. I'd shut down Long and any other proven players with nagging injuries, and get the rookies as much experience as possible, and be ready for next year.

What he said. Simply put the talent that IS here, has regressed. Although I would not shut down anybody for lack of warm bodies to play, somebody needs to kick some @$$ and get some life in this team. Who thinks Reggie Bush is a 'between the tackles' runner? Why do we wait until the final 45 seconds at Cleveland to throw deep to Gates? How about jump balls to butterfingers?

 

[phinfan2003]

I think it's funny how many of the coaches who were crucified in Miami and were thought of as bad coaches (Chan Gailey, George Edwards, Mike Mularkey, Dave Wannstedt, Keith Armstrong, etc.) are thriving in other places like Atlanta and Buffalo. As much as he sucked as a talent evaluator, playing with a lead, making game-time adjustments on the fly, and is blamed by most fans for the current state of the franchise etc., Wannstedt was the best coach we've had not named Shula. When you consider we consistently won 10-11 games year in and year out with no real QB, no real WR, and guys like Lamar Smith running the ball. We weren't going to win a SB with him because he was the worst talent evaluator ever but from a coaching "standpoint", he was the best we've had and I would give anything to go back to those 10-11 win seasons because I can't take losing this much!

 

[mi2cents]

The young players are not progressing and the veterans are re-gressing....can anyone name one coach on this current staff whose charges are playing at or above their god given ability. It all starts with the FO and the fact that they do not seem result driven....for what ever reason

 

[Ryan1973]

A lot of it has to do with coaching. Just look at what the 49ers are doing this year with Harbaugh compared to last year. Alex Smith is still the QB last time I checked. Good coaching can change a culture of a team even with the same players. Now at the end of the day you need talent to go far in the playoffs or win a Super Bowl. But it all starts with coaching.

 

[hightempo]

I think it's funny how many of the coaches who were crucified in Miami and were thought of as bad coaches (Chan Gailey, George Edwards, Mike Mularkey, Dave Wannstedt, Keith Armstrong, etc.) are thriving in other places like Atlanta and Buffalo. As much as he sucked as a talent evaluator, playing with a lead, making game-time adjustments on the fly, and is blamed by most fans for the current state of the franchise etc., Wannstedt was the best coach we've had not named Shula. When you consider we consistently won 10-11 games year in and year out with no real QB, no real WR, and guys like Lamar Smith running the ball. We weren't going to win a SB with him because he was the worst talent evaluator ever but from a coaching "standpoint", he was the best we've had and I would give anything to go back to those 10-11 win seasons because I can't take losing this much!

hold on a minute.... Dave Wandstedt BLOWS. he STILL blows. he will ALWAYS BLOW. Dave Wandstedt blew SO BAD that ALL the other coaches on your list actually blew as well BECAUSE of Wandstedt!

 

[hightempo]

hold on a minute.... Dave Wandstedt BLOWS. he STILL blows. he will ALWAYS BLOW. Dave Wandstedt blew SO BAD that ALL the other coaches on your list actually blew as well BECAUSE of Wandstedt!

except for chan gailey - sorry chan. he was actually pretty good his one year as offensive coordinator. we ran the ball well when he was calling the plays. but he was smart enough to know that IF he would have stuck around another year that he would have BLOWN TOO!!! BECAUSE of wandstedt!! mad props chan - good move

 

[Ryan1973]

hold on a minute.... Dave Wandstedt BLOWS. he STILL blows. he will ALWAYS BLOW. Dave Wandstedt blew SO BAD that ALL the other coaches on your list actually blew as well BECAUSE of Wandstedt!

Wannstedt was Vince Lombardi compared to guys like Cam Cameron and Tony Sparano.

 

[armyphin]

hold on a minute.... Dave Wandstedt BLOWS. he STILL blows. he will ALWAYS BLOW. Dave Wandstedt blew SO BAD that ALL the other coaches on your list actually blew as well BECAUSE of Wandstedt!

Take off your angry fan glasses.

Define blows.

He had a winning record 4 seasons in a row before Ricky went AWOL.

11-5, 11-5, 9-7, 10-6 <-- Shula and Marino never had a better 4 season win streak.

Whoever was drafting (forget the name) is they guy that deserves the blame.

 

[hightempo]

---------- Post added at 11:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 AM ----------

Take off your angry fan glasses.

Define blows.

He had a winning record 4 seasons in a row before Ricky went AWOL.

11-5, 11-5, 9-7, 10-6 <-- Shula and Marino never had a better 4 season win streak.

Whoever was drafting (forget the name) is they guy that deserves the blame.

lol. his name was DAVE WANDSTEDT!!! LMFAO

 

[Ryan1973]

Take off your angry fan glasses.

Define blows.

He had a winning record 4 seasons in a row before Ricky went AWOL.

11-5, 11-5, 9-7, 10-6 <-- Shula and Marino never had a better 4 season win streak.

Whoever was drafting (forget the name) is they guy that deserves the blame.

Well Wannstedt was in charge of the draft for the first three years and then it was Rick Spielman in charge.

 

[armyphin]

Well Wannstedt was in charge of the draft for the first three years and then it was Rick Spielman in charge.

Was he?

Well, that guy can't draft for **** :)

I'll eat some crow on that one.

I thought it was Rick Spielman the whole time.