i got a great laugh out of this one - so its all good.
Coaching Vs Talent?
- Thread starter Perfect72
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i got a great laugh out of this one - so its all good.
Ya he should have never been in charge of personnel. He sucked at that.
sucked doesnt even begin to describe how awful wandstedt was. with sam madison, pat surtain, and terrell buckley on the roster. wandstedt decided to take jamar fletcher over drew brees in spite of the fact his very own personal department was lobbying for brees. wanny IS the reason we have failed to draft a franchise QB EVERY SINGLE TIME we had the opportunity. HE started this curse!!
drew brees
aaron rodgers
matt ryan
josh freeman
ryan mallett
ok the last 2 are a reach. but we EASILY could have had Freeman, and mallett has talent
JerryD
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True that!! Wannstedt kept saying he had to have Total Control to be successful as did his mentor Jimmy Johnson ... was a great controversy at the time.
Because Wannstedt had pretty good teams ... he kept saying he was Only missing the Final Pieces, but his drafts failed ... that's what led to his desperate-wacky trades ... Wannstedt let emotions/panic over-ride good sense.
phinfan2003
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You can say all you want about how Wannstedt blows but the facts are the facts. His COACHING record was better than any other coach we've ever had not named Shula. HE SUCKED AS A PERSONNEL GUY. I REPEAT HE SUCKED AS A PERSONNEL GUY but to say that he wasn't the 2nd best coach in our history just because "he blows" is just ridiculous. That being said, it's not like we're comparing Wannstedt to the likes of Bill Belichick or Vince Lombardi. If we don't include George Wilson, take a look for yourself:
Jimmy Johnson: In 4 years, he went 8-8, 9-7, 10-6 and 9-7 with 3 playoff appearances with no division titles
Dave Wannstedt: In 4 full seasons, he went 11-5, 11-5, 9-7, and 10-6 with 2 playoff appearances and 1 division title. He had the awful 1-8 season but those 4 years he won with the likes of Jay Fiedler at QB and no real threat at WR. If you argue that he won with Jimmy's players, then you are proving my point that Dave was a better coach than Jimmy because Jimmy (who was a great talent evaluator/personnel guy), won less with his own players and even had a decent Marino for the first 2 years (the last 2, Marino was a shell of himself).
Nick Saban: 9-7, and 6-10 no need to go further
Cam Cameron: 1-15
Tony Sparano: 11-5, 7-9, and 7-9 and an 0-4 start this year with 1 division title and 1 playoff appearance.
Jimmy Johnson: In 4 years, he went 8-8, 9-7, 10-6 and 9-7 with 3 playoff appearances with no division titles
Dave Wannstedt: In 4 full seasons, he went 11-5, 11-5, 9-7, and 10-6 with 2 playoff appearances and 1 division title. He had the awful 1-8 season but those 4 years he won with the likes of Jay Fiedler at QB and no real threat at WR. If you argue that he won with Jimmy's players, then you are proving my point that Dave was a better coach than Jimmy because Jimmy (who was a great talent evaluator/personnel guy), won less with his own players and even had a decent Marino for the first 2 years (the last 2, Marino was a shell of himself).
Nick Saban: 9-7, and 6-10 no need to go further
Cam Cameron: 1-15
Tony Sparano: 11-5, 7-9, and 7-9 and an 0-4 start this year with 1 division title and 1 playoff appearance.
Kinzua
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Generally, talent levels aren't all that different in the NFL, at least not like they are in the colleges, or the way they were pre-salary cap. Teams simply can't afford to collect and keep all the talented guys the way they used to. That makes coaching all the more important, and I think that's where Miami is failing.
Compare the Bills and the Eagles. On paper, the Bills shouldn't even be on the same field as the Dream Team, but Gailey's done a better job coaching his team than Reid has done his, and not just the records but the entire atmospheres surrounding these two teams reflect that.
Compare the Bills and the Eagles. On paper, the Bills shouldn't even be on the same field as the Dream Team, but Gailey's done a better job coaching his team than Reid has done his, and not just the records but the entire atmospheres surrounding these two teams reflect that.
A great QB like Manning, Brady, or Brees can make system look good. That being said, New England and New Orleans have systems that anybody could thrive him. Hell, even the Colts have looked better with Painter in the game knowing the system rather than Collins.
While our drafts in recent years have been unspectacular to say the least, our talent level isn't bad. Our coaching this year has been poor. A good scheme can make anybody look good, and a good motivator can get anybody to play for them.
I'll use my Michigan Wolverines as an example. Yeah they haven't had a tough schedule this year, but in past years under Rich Rodriguez and Greg Robinson teams like UMASS and Bowling Green shredded Michigan's defense, and the teams would get destroyed in the second half both on offense and defense. With Brady Hoke, Greg Mattison, and Al Borges in control (as well as a coaching staff that stresses being in position to make a play and using good technique rather than just being faster than the opposition) Michigan not only outplays, but outcoaches their opponents so far this year.
The thing I've noticed now that I think about it for the Fins, is that early on we don't look terrible but Sparano/Daboll/Nolan have really struggled making adjustments. We need a coaching staff that can work on the fly.
While our drafts in recent years have been unspectacular to say the least, our talent level isn't bad. Our coaching this year has been poor. A good scheme can make anybody look good, and a good motivator can get anybody to play for them.
I'll use my Michigan Wolverines as an example. Yeah they haven't had a tough schedule this year, but in past years under Rich Rodriguez and Greg Robinson teams like UMASS and Bowling Green shredded Michigan's defense, and the teams would get destroyed in the second half both on offense and defense. With Brady Hoke, Greg Mattison, and Al Borges in control (as well as a coaching staff that stresses being in position to make a play and using good technique rather than just being faster than the opposition) Michigan not only outplays, but outcoaches their opponents so far this year.
The thing I've noticed now that I think about it for the Fins, is that early on we don't look terrible but Sparano/Daboll/Nolan have really struggled making adjustments. We need a coaching staff that can work on the fly.
Canadianfishfan
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Buffalo fans are pretty happy with gailey and wannstedt right now. Just sayin
Wanny is a great coach to have if he's not the Head Coach. It was weird while he was here with us, and watching him coach Pitt. He let's the DC run their defense (while he's a defensive guy), but he won't let the OC run their defense.
What killed Gailey at Georgia Tech was 1)His love of Reggie Ball as a QB and 2)What many felt was underachieving towards the end of his tenure there. Now everybody made fun of the hire when it happened (including me) because the Bills actually were aiming for bigger name people (Cowher and Gruden, plus some bigger name assistants) and they settled on Gailey not only after he was fired from GTech, but had an awful offense in KC. But what I think helped Gailey is he understood that the Bills were rebuilding so he made moves to help towards the future rather than to win now.
I think that's something that hurt Sparano. I think he came in with a plan to rebuild, but after year 1 was a success I think he changed his plan... Saban did something similar trading picks for Daunte and Joey Harrington.
The 49ers have started out really well in a lot of recent seasons. Until they sustain winning, they've done nothing.
I really don't know what people expect out of the talent, or lack thereoff on this team. There are a lot of good pieces in place, but the secondary is an achilles heel and has been since 2009. These guys give up more big plays than almost anyone in the league, and also make less big plays than nearly anyone in the league. You're only as good as the weakest link in the chain, and they are it.
Coaching may be the problem for failure to recognize that before it lead to our demise, again. I know a lot of people here say they were ranked well last year, but that was a mirage that I know I'm not the only one who saw through. A good NFL staff has some foresight can anticipate the problems and try and solve them before they lead to disaster.
DolfanISS
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This staff just doesn't know what they are doing, even Barbie Carpenter looks good playing on a different team.
Splitting hairs here but I simply disagree.
I remember many years ago when Wannstedt was the coach there was a Bears fan that came over to finheaven and gave us our condolences. He said that Wannstedt will ruin your team.
He gave us a link to a great Chicago Tribune article picking apart Wannstedt's tenure in Chicago. It talked about how Wannstedt always road Jimmy Johnson's coattails from their original days at Pitt. Even in Dallas when Wanny was DC apparantly JJ actually ran the D. In a nutshell Wanny was a likable guy but a terrible coach. And the Bears got worse every year until he was canned.
In Miami
Wannstedt inherited a defense with one of the original shut down corner tandems. Add ZT and JT in their primes and you had an elite defense.
There he quickly began a predictible pattern of wasting picks. Starting with the Ricky trade.
Like in Chicago Miami got worse every year until we were so devoid of talent that the team was an utter wasteland.
If a guy wears both hats then you cannot ignore one.
I would take Nick Saban to coach my team on any level above Wannstedt every day of the week.
He inherited the absolute disaster that was Miami and at least made them competitive.
Cameron was in over his head, but never actually got to see what a good team was like. Miami was a mess at that point.
Wanny who can only get a measly lb coaching job as an olive branch from his former OC despite close to 25 years of experience as a HC or DC in the NFL. Why? Because he is a terrible coach. After you seperate him from Jimmy Johnson(the only time he was ever successful) He was run out of Chicago after ruining the bears, run out of Miami after ruining the dolphins and run out of his alma mater Pitt.
Do you people remember the lobster trap fiasco!?!?!? My friends from Chicago said that the sports radio guys up there were laughing about that **** for years,
Thank you!