Comparing Ted Ginn's first year to former high draft picks at his position.

[dlockz]

For the sake of arguement will not compare him to any receivers taken before the 5th pick or after the 14th pick. Will look at thier circumstances and thier results. I will start with the year 1995.

Joey Galloway(ohio st) 1995 8th overall pick by seattle 5-11,197
67 catches 1039 yards 7 tds also averaged over 10 yards a return and a td on pr started 16 games

Next year had 57 catches 987 yards 7 tds

Had awful Qb play with Rick Mirer 53 Percent completions 13 td's 20 int
Had a good WR on other side in Brian Blades and a bunch of scrubs below him. Team went 8-8

Went on to have 4 very strong years in seattle before injury bug hit
has been pretty good the last three years with Tampa Bay.
Lifetime has 669 catches for 10,572 yards 77 tds
Currently ranks in top 10 in active receiving yards and 23rd among alltime.
Although Galloway has never been a dominant receiver has had a great career.
Has never been a pro bowler
Best Season 2005 83 for 1287 with 10 td's




JJ Stokes (UCLA) 1995 10th pick by Sf 6-4,218
appeared in 12 games started 4
38 catches 517 yards 4 tds
Next season
had 18 cathes for 249 yards

Team went 11-5 Had Steve Young at Qb with Jerry Rice in prime with John Taylor Still on team.Was Taylor's last year on team and Stoke was third option behind Rice and brent Jones.

Was a servicable receiver during his 8 seasons in SF
and put up respectable career numbers of 342 rec for 4293 yards and 30 td's

Best season was 1998 63 rec for 770 yards 8 td's

Terry Glenn(ohio St) 1996 8th pick overall by NE 5-11,195
started and played in 15 games
90 cathes for 1132 yards 6 td's

Next season had 27 cathes for 431 yards 2 td's

Team went 11-5 had Bledsoe had his best, SHawn Jefferson and Ben Coates
Had nobody really to keep him on bench
HAs had a pretty good career including a pro bowl in 99 and all pro his rookie year.
Career 593 rec for 8823 yards with 44 td's

Best Season his rookie year 90 catches 1132 yards and 6 tds


Ike Hilliard (Fl) 1997 7th overall pick by NYG 5'11 210
started and played in 2 games
2 catches 42 yards injured and put on IR after 2 games

Next season had 51 catches for 715 yards 2 tds

Team went 10-5-1 with Danny Kannel at QB, Had chris Calloway at other receiver team also had Amani Toomer and David patten. So even though the end result was not much was impressive that he won a stariting job right out of the gate. Injuries basically take him out of comparism.

Has had an underrated and unspectacular career but 499 rec for 5973 yards is nothing to sneeze at. Played at a very high level this year for the Bucs with 62 catches.

Best season 1999 72 rec for 996 yards 3 td's



Tory Holt (NC St) 1999 6th overall pick by ST L 6'0 190
started 15 out of 16 games
52 catches 788 yards

Next season 82 rec for 1635 and 6 td's pro bowl

Team went 13-3 and won super bowl
Played in probably one of the best offenses ever with Kurt warner as QB
Bruce on other side and 3rd rec Az hakim along with Ricky proel.

Probably now one of the best receivers in the league. Has not had one bad season since he came into league and a 7 time pro bowler.Already top 20 in career rec and yards with 805 rec for 11864 and 71 td's.

Best season 2003 117 catches 1696 yards 12 td's

David Boston (ohios St) 1999 8th pick by Arizona 6'2 240
started 8 games played in 16
40 catches 473 yards 2 td's

Next season 71 rec for 1156 yards 7 td's

Team went 6-10 Jake Plummer was god awful that season with 9 tds and 24 int. Team had Frank Sanders and Rob Moore so he had talented guys around him.

David Boston has been quite an enigma seeming all the size and talent but has only had two really good seasons and a solid season in San Diego before we traded for him. Was a probowler one season in 2001.

Career has 315 rec for 4699 25 tds

Best season 2001 98 catches 1598 yards and 8 td's.

Troy Edwards (La Tech) 1999 13th pick by Pittsburgh 5'10 191
started 6 games played in 16
61 catches for 714 yards 5 td's

Next season had 18 catches for 215 yards

Dissapointingly his best season was his rookie season and with a couple of minor seasons with Jax later in his career never was a factor as a receiver.

Career 203 catches 2404 yards 11 td's

Best season 1999 61 catches 714 yards 5 td's

Plaxico Burress (mich ST) 8th pick by Pittsburgh 6,5 226
played in 12 games 8 starts
22 cathes for 273 yards

Next season 66 for 1008 6 tds

team went 9-7 with Slash Stewart and Kent Graham Qbing. Team had Hines Ward, Troy Edwards ,Cournet Hawkins along with Bobby Wade.

At times Burress has been a very good receiver and seems to be at the top of his game now. Never been a probowler but lifetime stats of 470 catches 7391 51 td's.

Best Season 2002 78 for 1325 and 7 td's

Travis Taylor(Fl) 2000 19th pick by Balt 6'1 210
Played in 9 games started 8
28 cathes for 276 yards

next season 42 rec for 560


Team had a record of 12-4 with Tony Banks and Trent Difer splitting QB duties. shannon sharpe was TE. No wr's to really keep him on bench Quadry Ismail and Jermaine Lewis and yet to develop Brandon Stokley.

Taylor never lived up to his draft position but was a usable NFL receiver at times. Had a minor resurgence in Minny. Career stats 313 rec 4021 yds 22 tds

Best season 2002 61 rec 869 yards 6 td's.

David Terrel (Mich) 2001 8th pick by chicago 6'3 215
played in 16 games started 6
34 cathes for 415 yards 4 tds

Next season 9 rec 127 yards

team went 13-3 had Jim Miller at Qb Marty Booker, Marcus Robinson, Dez White and Dwayne Bates at Wr.

A very dissapointing career and was recently cut by Denver last season.
Seemed to have all the tools but never could stay healthy.
Career numbers of 128 catches 1602 yards 9 td's

Best season 2004 42 rec 699 yards 1td, no catches since.


Koren Robinson (NC St) 2001 9th pick by Seattle 6'1 205
started 13 games and played in 16
39 catches for 536 yards 1 td

next season 78 rec for 1240 yards 5tds

Team went 9-7 with Dilfer and Hasselback getting his first action as a starter.Had Darrel Jackson and Bobby Engram at WR.

His second season was such a tease of things never to happen again. Has had numerous off field problems and with the exception of having the one good season and a great special teams season in Minny has been a dissapointment. Career stats 263 rec 3844 yards 14 tds.

Best season 2002 78 rec for 1240 5 td's.

Donte Stallworth (Tenn) 2002 13th pick by NO 6 197
13 games and 7 starts
42 cathes for 594 yards 8 tds

next season 25 for 485 3 tds

That season NO went 9-7 with Aaron Brooks having his best season at Qb.
Had Joe Horn, Jerome Pathon and Jake Reed as other Wr's.


In my opinion one of the most overrated players in the NFL. Has had one good season and was expected to break out in NE. Never been close to a top level receiver. lifetime stats of 279 rec 4213 yards and 31 tds.

Best season 2005 70 rec 945 yards 7 tds.

Roy Williams (Tex) 2004 7th pick by detroit 6'4"' 210
14 games 12 starts
54 catches 817 yards 8 tds

next season 45 rec for 687 8 tds

Team went 6-10 with a solid season at QB by Joey harrington 3000 yards 19 tds and only 12 int. Team had Tai streets and Az hakim as the other receivers.

Best season 2006 82 rec for 1310 yards with 7 tds.


Major talent at receiver that has had injury issues. Has had one really good season but has shown flashes in all years. In 2006 was a pro bowler. Best is probably yet to come if he can stay healthy.

Reggie Williams (Wash ) 2004 9th pick by jack 6'4 225
16 games 15 started
27 cathes 268 yards 1 td

next season 35 rec for 445 yards

Team went 9-7 with Leftwich playing solid Qb with Jimmy Smith, ernest Wilford and Troy Edwards at receiver.

Finally becoming a productive receiver but far from dominant. Career stats
152 rec 1958 yards and 15 tds. Became much more of a deep threat with garrard at Qb.

Best season 2007 38 rec for 629 yards 10 tds.

Lee Evans (Wis) 2004 13th pick by Buff 5'10 202
16 games 11 started
48 catches 843 yards 9 td's

next season 48 for 743 yards 7 tds

Team went 9-7 with Bledoe having an ok year with Eric mould and JosH reed as the other receivers.

Evans had a breakout year in his third season but suffered somewhat with QB carousal this year. with stability at Qb should remain a dangerous weapon. Career stats 233 rec for 3727 and 29tds

Best season 2006 82 for 1292 yards 8 tds

Troy Williamson (SC) 2005 pick by Minnesota 6'1 203
14 games 3 started
24 catches 372 yards 2 tds

37 for 455 next season

Team went 9-7 with Culpepper and Johnson at Qb. Injury plagued year for Culpper was just the start of his troubles. Team had Marcus Robinson, Koren robinson, Travis Taylor and Nate Burlson.

Williamson came into the league as a raw player with alot of raw talent but has done little to earn his high draft pick. Career stats 79 rec 1067 yds and 3 tds.

Mike williams (USC) 2005 10th pick by Detroit 6'5 229
14 games 4 started
29 catches 350 yards 1 td

next season 8 rec for 99 yards 1 td

Team went 5-11 with Joey Harrington and Jeff Garcia having mediocre years.

Mike williams who had the misfortune of being screwed by the NFL so he had to sit out and wait a season to be drafted. Roy Williams, Charles Rogers and Scottie Vines were the other receivers. Vines never played again after that season.

williams was awesome as a college receiver but has never out it together in the pros. Traded to the Raiders in a draft day trade.Dropped a crucial pass from Daunte Culpepper in the red zone and was cut a few days later then picked up by Tennesee. Career stats of 51 rec for 629 yards 2 tds not very special for a three year career.

Best season 2005 29 catches 350 yards 1 td

Ted Ginn Rookie season drafted by us at 9
34 rec for 420 yards 2 tds

started 9 games and played in 16



I will take Ike Hilliard out of the discussion because he was injured most of his rookie season but was good enough to be the starter from game 1.

I bring this discussion up because so many talk about rookie receivers dont do very well and figured I would study the truth in this statement with guys of similar draft status as Ted Ginn.


Since 1995, 18 receivers have been drafted from pick 5 to 14.
Of these only one in my opinion has been an elite receiver and that would be Tory Holt 7 time pro bowler.

One receiver out of that group I would say has played at a consistently high level during his career and has been extremely productive and that would be
Joey Galloway who has been on the cusp of the elite.

Two receivers out of this group have had more than one very good season followed with consistent success for most of career and that would be Terry Glenn and Plaxico Burress.

Two receivers out the group had at least one outstanding season to be followed with suspensions and dissapointment in later seasons in Boston and Robinson.

Lee Evans and Roy williams have both had one really excellent season in thier three year career and have shown they should be good players.

JJ Stokes, Donte Stallworth, Ike Hilliard and Travis Taylor have basically all been servicable NFL receivers that have never had any special seasons.

Mike williams and David Terrel have been busts of major proportions with Troy Williamson not showing much in his three years.

The only player that became a really good player that had a lesser first year than Ted Ginn was Plaxico Burress.


Of those only one basically missed the majority of the season and thats Hilliard.

Ranking of rookie years rec yards avg tds starts games
1-Terry Glenn 90 1132 12.6 6 15 15
2-Joey Galloway 67 1039 15.5 7 16 16
3-Roy williams 54 817 15.1 8 12 14
4-Tory Holt 52 788 15.2 6 15 16
5-Lee Evans 48 843 17.6 9 11 16
6-Troy Edwards 61 714 11.7 5 6 16
7-D Stallworth 42 594 14.1 8 7 13
8-JJ Stokes 38 517 13.6 4 2 12
9-David Boston 40 473 11.8 2 8 16
10-K Robinson 39 536 13.7 1 13 16
11-D Terrel 34 415 12.2 4 6 16
12-T Ginn 34 420 12.4 2 9 16
13-Troy williamsom 24 372 15.5 2 3 14
14-Mike Williams 29 350 12.4 1 4 14
15-T Taylor 28 276 9.9 3 8 9
16-Reggie Williams 27 268 9.9 1 15 16
17-P Burress 22 273 12.4 0 8 12

 

[JBinSD]

So... Whaddya think about all that? LOL

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

Even if this was entirely useless, you deserve thanks for the work you put it. Nice job, man. :up:

Ted Ginn last year got better each week he stepped on the field. Anyone that had incredibly high expectations for him was simply just wishful thinking. (And by high I mean more then 50 catches and 1000 yards.) He needed to become more acclimated to the NFL game and I think he's well on his way to doing that; but he still has a lot of work to do.

Everything I've heard about his work ethic has been positive. He and John Beck stay after practice and work on routes together and they're already working out right now. His speed and understanding of routes will make him a very dangerous receiver one day.

I know it's not anything extradordinary, but I took a lot from that final game vs. Cincinnati. We were all led to believe that Ginn is a guy that can only run downfield and catch fly patterns. Well in the Cincy game he caught 7 balls for 54 yards and was running his routes to the sticks. He caught the ball in traffic, illuded some tacklers and lunged forward for first downs. I absolutely loved the way he played that game and if he can combine it with the lightning quick homerun ability, he's got Steve Smith writen all over him.

 

[Padfoot]

People put too much emphasis on stats. There are a lot of variables that can change a recievers stats that the reciever himself has zero control over, such as QB quality, o-line quality, play selection, how often the QB targets him, penalties, etc.

Ginn was in such a unique situation, you can't campare his stats to anyone. First, he barely played offense until we traded Chambers. Second, we had 3 different quarterbacks play throughout the season. Third, the quality of the quarterback play in general was sub-par. Fourth, the quality of the pass protection was sub-par. Fifth, Cameron's scheme was rediculously conservative and redundant. Sixth, he played for a 1-15 team.

If you just watch Ginn play. You can see he's special. He's very fast, he has great hands, he gets good separation, he finds open areas of the field.

Ted Ginn is a very good reciever, and I expect him to become one of the NFL's elite wide outs.

 

[dlockz]

People put too much emphasis on stats. There are a lot of variables that can change a recievers stats that the reciever himself has zero control over, such as QB quality, o-line quality, play selection, how often the QB targets him, penalties, etc.

Ginn was in such a unique situation, you can't campare his stats to anyone. First, he barely played offense until we traded Chambers. Second, we had 3 different quarterbacks play throughout the season. Third, the quality of the quarterback play in general was sub-par. Fourth, the quality of the pass protection was sub-par. Fifth, Cameron's scheme was rediculously conservative and redundant. Sixth, he played for a 1-15 team.

If you just watch Ginn play. You can see he's special. He's very fast, he has great hands, he gets good separation, he finds open areas of the field.

Ted Ginn is a very good reciever, and I expect him to become one of the NFL's elite wide outs.

Ginn's situation was hardly so unique that he is incomparable to other players. I only showed the cold hard facts that no matter what anyone feels about any player that is drafted there are no sure things. There were alot more misses than hits in those draft picks and no player in those spots is a cant miss.You could have said the same thing about alot of these players early in thier career. I personally see potential in Ginn but he really was nothing special at WR last year. Dwayne Bowe,James Jones, Dwayne Gonzales and Laurent Robinson all out performed him. Sidney Rice who only started 4 games basically put up identical stats to him and please don't tell me that Tavaris Jackson is a good Qb. Laurent Robinson went to a team with as many problems as we have and did every bit as good as a third round pick. I did not show the stats as an indictment of Ginn but I personally did not see one game where I was just amazed by what I saw of Ginn.

 

[dlockz]

Even if this was entirely useless, you deserve thanks for the work you put it. Nice job, man. :up:

Ted Ginn last year got better each week he stepped on the field. Anyone that had incredibly high expectations for him was simply just wishful thinking. (And by high I mean more then 50 catches and 1000 yards.) He needed to become more acclimated to the NFL game and I think he's well on his way to doing that; but he still has a lot of work to do.

Everything I've heard about his work ethic has been positive. He and John Beck stay after practice and work on routes together and they're already working out right now. His speed and understanding of routes will make him a very dangerous receiver one day.

I know it's not anything extradordinary, but I took a lot from that final game vs. Cincinnati. We were all led to believe that Ginn is a guy that can only run downfield and catch fly patterns. Well in the Cincy game he caught 7 balls for 54 yards and was running his routes to the sticks. He caught the ball in traffic, illuded some tacklers and lunged forward for first downs. I absolutely loved the way he played that game and if he can combine it with the lightning quick homerun ability, he's got Steve Smith writen all over him.

Thanks it did actually take a little while. I am not as big a fan of Ginn as a receiver but I was pretty curious since alot of people just make statements about how first year receivers do and about thier development.

 

[Padfoot]

Ginn's situation was hardly so unique that he is incomparable to other players. I only showed the cold hard facts that no matter what anyone feels about any player that is drafted there are no sure things. There were alot more misses than hits in those draft picks and no player in those spots is a cant miss.You could have said the same thing about alot of these players early in thier career. I personally see potential in Ginn but he really was nothing special at WR last year. Dwayne Bowe,James Jones, Dwayne Gonzales and Laurent Robinson all out performed him. Sidney Rice who only started 4 games basically put up identical stats to him and please don't tell me that Tavaris Jackson is a good Qb. Laurent Robinson went to a team with as many problems as we have and did every bit as good as a third round pick. I did not show the stats as an indictment of Ginn but I personally did not see one game where I was just amazed by what I saw of Ginn.

All of those players were higher on the depth chart than Ginn, except James Jones and Sidney Rice. And Jones had the Green Bay spread 5 wide offense so he was on the field as much as a number 1.

Ginn only had 5 more starts than Sidney Rice, and 3 of those starts were with Beck who had dismal showings cuz he was blitzed to no end and the o-line couldn't block for him, and Cameron was calling the same little flat routes and comeback routes all game, never letting Beck through the ball deep. Tavaris Jackson had a great o-line protecting him, an amazing rushing attack to fall back on, and most importantly he didn't have the idiot play caller Cam Cameron running his offense into the ground.

And that goes for all of these recievers that had better stats than Ginn. They were all in much better situations, whether they were higher on the depth chart, had a better QB, had at least the same QB for the whole season, had a competent play-caller, was not on a 1-15 team, or had an o-line capable of giving their QB time to throw the ball.

And if you didn't see anything impressive out of Ginn while watching the games, then you weren't watching very closely.

 

[Alex44]

IMO 34 receptions in his rookie year with the offensive play we had all across the board is pretty damn good. Especially since he was a third option most the season.

 

[dlockz]

IMO 34 receptions in his rookie year with the offensive play we had all across the board is pretty damn good. Especially since he was a third option most the season.

I guess its all about perception but I dont really see anything that positive or negative about it. KInd of just makes you shrug you shoulders and go hmm. I just dont see anything about his performance that makes me think he is better than Sidney Rice, James Jones, Dwayne Bowe or Laurent Robinson.
Dwayne Bowe clearly looked like the best receiver by far in the draft and his offense was just as bad as ours. Many receivers dont break out thier rookie year and do real good down the line but I think he gets a little too much credit on this board for a season that he was basically handed the job to and performed no more than average.

 

[jason8er]

Ginn did very well considering the disaster that was. If he could excel in that environment, then that's saying something more.

 

[vafin72]

I think people should also keep in mind Ginn's performance in relation to other rookie receivers. Outside of Calvin Johnson who was a full time starter, he more than held his own. Granted he was a top 10 pick, I believe his performance numbers exceeded all first year WR's other than Johnson who was of course the 2nd pick.

 

[JepheryRoss]

I think Ted Ginn Jr could be a healthier Terry Glenn . Some might think that isnt much to look forward to, but if Glenn had stayed on the field he would've had much better numbers.

Best comparison on this list is Terry Glenn (same school, same intials too haha)

 

[popularwar]

I can't and don't want to take anything away from your post (lot of hard work and research there, thanks) but I guess there are other things should be taken to consideration. The numbers don't tell the whole story.
An easy one comes to mind: Ginn was on a 1-15 team that started three different quarterbacks. You expect his stats to suffer a bit since it's rare to have a solid (let alone pro bowl) performance on an awful team.
Again, great job putting all this together.

 

[HybridPHIN 23]

I think people should also keep in mind Ginn's performance in relation to other rookie receivers. Outside of Calvin Johnson who was a full time starter, he more than held his own. Granted he was a top 10 pick, I believe his performance numbers exceeded all first year WR's other than Johnson who was of course the 2nd pick.

Dwayne Bowe was the WR rookie of the year.... he had better numbers than Johnson and Ginn combined !!

 

[Stringer Bell]

dwayne bowe > ted ginn

even though I hate Bowe for screwing over the U