Culture of Losing?

[krobmay]

Unfortunately, I think these Dolphins are a beaten bunch. Mentally, that is. And by these, I mean team leaders like Z. Thomas, J. Taylor, C. Chambers and the newly acquired team leaders like Harrington, V. Holliday, M. Booker, J. James, et. al. I know this will upset a lot of people, but watch how they play. They play with fear. Fear of losing, fear of things going wrong at any moment. Everytime Harrington drops back, it's like AJ Feely all over again, I cringe because I think he's going to throw a pick. And if you think it's just me, a viewer, who's sensing this, you're crazy. The other players can feel this too. That's one reason why there's so many dropped passes. Guys are trying sooo hard to make a play because they can sense that at any moment the ship is going down. So they try to do too much and they take their eye off the ball. It's why the d-backs get caught looking into the backfield on a third and long and a receiver runs right by them. They're desperate to be the one to make the tackle and get off the field so they try to do too much and end up not covering their responsibility.

Plus, years of colossal regular season collapses to the Pats and Jets, not to mention the Jacksonville playoff debacle with Jimmy Johnson, plus their tendency to swoon in December, have eroded pretty much any confidence that they're ever going to win. Hearing their discouraged comments, their "we're the worst team in the league" frustration after every loss only seems to confirm this diagnosis. I wonder if a total house cleaning is not the best way to change the culture of losing this current group of veterans has adopted. Get what we can for Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas and Chris Chambers and let's start over with players that believe they can win and aren't just playing not to lose.

 

[TampaFinsFan01]

All true. And now with Saban, we can conclude that since 1993, there have been 4 head coaches that contributed to that culture. Shula in his old lackadaisical ways, JJs phony psychology, DWs total ineptitude, and Saban's New Age BS that is a proven failure. We need to get a head coach that is going to start over with this team. There is nothing worth holding on to minus four or five players. Everything else needs to go...we need new players, new coaches, new attitudes.

 

[Fin D]

First you say this:

All true. And now with Saban, we can conclude that since 1993, there have been 4 head coaches that contributed to that culture. Shula in his old lackadaisical ways, JJs phony psychology, DWs total ineptitude, and Saban's New Age BS that is a proven failure. We need to get a head coach that is going to start over with this team. There is nothing worth holding on to minus four or five players. Everything else needs to go...we need new players, new coaches, new attitudes.

And your sig say's this:
"I'd rather lose with Saban than win with any other coach."

a TRUE FAN, 2006

 

[columbuslarry]

What is scary is I live in Ohio and follow the Dolphins we are slowly starting to look, sound and act like the Clowns and Bungles Fans. The excuses I read on this board are unreal. 9-7 first round playoff loss used to be unacceptable. 1-6 is now defended. It's all Wanny's fault. I got news for ya it started before Wanny and is going on after he is gone.

 

[NawlinsBucFan]

I don't know about the "Culture Of Losing" just yet. Trust me, as a Bucs fan who grew up in Saints country, I know something about the subject.

When people talk about a Culture of Losing, they are talking about years and years of failure. The Fins are possibly on thier way to just the 2nd losing season in the past 15 years!!!!!

Do you have any idea how many teams would LOVE to have that record?

It's about time you guys get to feel what it means to suffer through a couple rebuilding years. And when those 2 or 3 years are done, you'll be back to complaining that you aren't winning games by a large enough margin.

Just like the Colts fans are doing right now.:shakeno:

 

[TampaFinsFan01]

First you say this:


And your sig say's this:
"I'd rather lose with Saban than win with any other coach."

a TRUE FAN, 2006

shhhh...its a joke. Its the way the Sabanites talk and act about Saban. But you didn't hear this from me.

 

[DolphinzD]

There is nothing worth holding on to minus four or five players.

Out of curiosity, who are the players you would want to keep?

 

[TampaFinsFan01]

Out of curiosity, who are the players you would want to keep?

Aw geez...come on now...But I'll play. (Why am I the only one that gets required to detail my objections):goof:

No one who was on the team before 04. We don't need them. I might keep Carey, if the price is right. I would probably keep Ronnie, Crowder, and Daniels. But I would certainly see what else is out there. Of this past draft, hard to tell. I would probably bring them all back next year and see how they fare in competition for their jobs. And I would try to bring in other undrafted and players that got cut for whatever reason who don't require alot of upfront investment. I would make this team younger and tougher. I would want safeties that are in the mold of John Lynch. Hard hitting and physical. Susceptible to pass, maybe, but if you came across the middle, you did so at your own risk. I would try to do what Parcells did when he coached the Jets and had the #1 pick. He parlayed that into about 5 picks.

After probably two years of not being very good, I would keep the young players who have shown they can play and start signing selective FAs who are need players and who don't cost much. Then, in probably the third year, I would start spending top notch money on FAs who can come in a be impact players. Hopefully, some of them would be your own young players who are due FA contracts, but for sure some of them would be FAs from other teams that are cap strapped. And then I would constantly try to trade away aging players for fifth and six round draft picks. If you have 2 fifths and 2 sixths every year, hopefully you can get a player or two every year that can play that can keep you out of cap hell when the time comes.

This is easier said than done, to be sure. But at least it would be a measurable plan. As it is, we have no plan. No benchmarks. No nothing.

 

[phinphanforever]

Aw geez...come on now...But I'll play. (Why am I the only one that gets required to detail my objections):goof:

No one who was on the team before 04. We don't need them. I might keep Carey, if the price is right. I would probably keep Ronnie, Crowder, and Daniels. But I would certainly see what else is out there. Of this past draft, hard to tell. I would probably bring them all back next year and see how they fare in competition for their jobs. And I would try to bring in other undrafted and players that got cut for whatever reason who don't require alot of upfront investment. I would make this team younger and tougher. I would want safeties that are in the mold of John Lynch. Hard hitting and physical. Susceptible to pass, maybe, but if you came across the middle, you did so at your own risk. I would try to do what Parcells did when he coached the Jets and had the #1 pick. He parlayed that into about 5 picks.

After probably two years of not being very good, I would keep the young players who have shown they can play and start signing selective FAs who are need players and who don't cost much. Then, in probably the third year, I would start spending top notch money on FAs who can come in a be impact players. Hopefully, some of them would be your own young players who are due FA contracts, but for sure some of them would be FAs from other teams that are cap strapped. And then I would constantly try to trade away aging players for fifth and six round draft picks. If you have 2 fifths and 2 sixths every year, hopefully you can get a player or two every year that can play that can keep you out of cap hell when the time comes.

This is easier said than done, to be sure. But at least it would be a measurable plan. As it is, we have no plan. No benchmarks. No nothing.

Aw geez...come on now...But I'll play. (Why am I the only one that gets required to detail my objections):goof:

No one who was on the team before 04. We don't need them. I might keep Carey, if the price is right. I would probably keep Ronnie, Crowder, and Daniels. But I would certainly see what else is out there. Of this past draft, hard to tell. I would probably bring them all back next year and see how they fare in competition for their jobs. And I would try to bring in other undrafted and players that got cut for whatever reason who don't require alot of upfront investment. I would make this team younger and tougher. I would want safeties that are in the mold of John Lynch. Hard hitting and physical. Susceptible to pass, maybe, but if you came across the middle, you did so at your own risk. I would try to do what Parcells did when he coached the Jets and had the #1 pick. He parlayed that into about 5 picks.

After probably two years of not being very good, I would keep the young players who have shown they can play and start signing selective FAs who are need players and who don't cost much. Then, in probably the third year, I would start spending top notch money on FAs who can come in a be impact players. Hopefully, some of them would be your own young players who are due FA contracts, but for sure some of them would be FAs from other teams that are cap strapped. And then I would constantly try to trade away aging players for fifth and six round draft picks. If you have 2 fifths and 2 sixths every year, hopefully you can get a player or two every year that can play that can keep you out of cap hell when the time comes.

This is easier said than done, to be sure. But at least it would be a measurable plan. As it is, we have no plan. No benchmarks. No nothing.

Sorry, but you are wrong on several accounts. To suggest that Saban has no plan is ridiculous. I can assure you he has a plan, and I can also assure you that he's not about to come forth with the details any time soon. He has, however, expressed several times that he needs to make this team younger, but balance it with veteran leadership. Of course it is a general statement, but at least it is one that makes some sense.
Your plan seems more of a fantasy than anything else. Teams can't just dump all their players. That's only for Madden and Fantasy football. Remember, there are 53 roster spots available. The average NFL team gets about 7 picks each year. You are suggesting that we keep roughly 10 of our players from this year's squad and use draft picks (7), undrafted FAs, and cuts to fill all the spots. We would be the laughingstock of the league.
As bad as things are right now, they would never approach the damage you are proposing to infllict on the team. We wouldn't win a single game. For two or three years! Fans would lose all interest and the financial losses would be horrendous. The lost revenue could hurt this team for extended periods.
I am very surprised at the media's -and some fans- attacks against Saban this year. Surprised by the volume and the nature. Of course Miami has had a disapointing season so far, yet to hear some of the garbage that is floating out there in 'hater' land, you'd think Saban is the anti-christ.

 

[FIN-IN-RI]

All true. And now with Saban, we can conclude that since 1993, there have been 4 head coaches that contributed to that culture. Shula in his old lackadaisical ways, JJs phony psychology, DWs total ineptitude, and Saban's New Age BS that is a proven failure. We need to get a head coach that is going to start over with this team. There is nothing worth holding on to minus four or five players. Everything else needs to go...we need new players, new coaches, new attitudes.

Pathetic point of view.

 

[TampaFinsFan01]

Sorry, but you are wrong on several accounts. To suggest that Saban has no plan is ridiculous. I can assure you he has a plan, and I can also assure you that he's not about to come forth with the details any time soon. He has, however, expressed several times that he needs to make this team younger, but balance it with veteran leadership. Of course it is a general statement, but at least it is one that makes some sense.
Your plan seems more of a fantasy than anything else. Teams can't just dump all their players. That's only for Madden and Fantasy football. Remember, there are 53 roster spots available. The average NFL team gets about 7 picks each year. You are suggesting that we keep roughly 10 of our players from this year's squad and use draft picks (7), undrafted FAs, and cuts to fill all the spots. We would be the laughingstock of the league.
As bad as things are right now, they would never approach the damage you are proposing to infllict on the team. We wouldn't win a single game. For two or three years! Fans would lose all interest and the financial losses would be horrendous. The lost revenue could hurt this team for extended periods.
I am very surprised at the media's -and some fans- attacks against Saban this year. Surprised by the volume and the nature. Of course Miami has had a disapointing season so far, yet to hear some of the garbage that is floating out there in 'hater' land, you'd think Saban is the anti-christ.

Saban has a plan alright..and the fruits of that plan have us at 1-6. Whoo-hoo. I know teams can't dump all their players. Thats why I said start with dumping the ones who've been here since before 2004. I'm talking about ZT, JT, Rmac...losers like that. Keep your young players. Find young players who haven't worked out for other teams who you can get cheap. If you can get vets cheap, its ok, but what you don't want to do is hit the out-years with cap money that will be dead. Thats what happened to us since 2002 and look at us. And Saban's not discontinuing it...he perpetuating it.

As for being the laughing stock of the league, I suggest you go to an NFL town. I live in one...and even though its bad here in Tampa, the mantra is "We're better than Miami"....And the damage that is being done is far worse than what I propose, because at least fans would see young players getting better and getting valuable experience. Its what JJ did in Dallas. The first year, 1-15. Second year, 7-9. The third 11-5 and then that team who had gotten the **** kicked out of them for three years (including the 1988 3-13 year) was ready to start making a difference. And evenutally that team won 3-4 SuperBowls. So don't tell me my plan is fantasy. I am borrowing my game plan from a team that won SBs. Saban doesn't even have a plan. Hence, we are 1-6...and 8 days from being 1-7.

 

[DolphinzD]

Aw geez...come on now...But I'll play. (Why am I the only one that gets required to detail my objections):goof:

No one who was on the team before 04. We don't need them. I might keep Carey, if the price is right. I would probably keep Ronnie, Crowder, and Daniels. But I would certainly see what else is out there. Of this past draft, hard to tell. I would probably bring them all back next year and see how they fare in competition for their jobs. And I would try to bring in other undrafted and players that got cut for whatever reason who don't require alot of upfront investment. I would make this team younger and tougher. I would want safeties that are in the mold of John Lynch. Hard hitting and physical. Susceptible to pass, maybe, but if you came across the middle, you did so at your own risk. I would try to do what Parcells did when he coached the Jets and had the #1 pick. He parlayed that into about 5 picks.

After probably two years of not being very good, I would keep the young players who have shown they can play and start signing selective FAs who are need players and who don't cost much. Then, in probably the third year, I would start spending top notch money on FAs who can come in a be impact players. Hopefully, some of them would be your own young players who are due FA contracts, but for sure some of them would be FAs from other teams that are cap strapped. And then I would constantly try to trade away aging players for fifth and six round draft picks. If you have 2 fifths and 2 sixths every year, hopefully you can get a player or two every year that can play that can keep you out of cap hell when the time comes.

This is easier said than done, to be sure. But at least it would be a measurable plan. As it is, we have no plan. No benchmarks. No nothing.

Don't worry, I wasn't trying to make you justify anything. I was honestly just curious about which players you would want to keep. Thanks for responding. I certainly don't have a plan that detailed.

 

[krobmay]

You're misunderstanding me. Saban is not the problem. I like his plan -- a big, smart defense with physically and mentally tough players -- and I think it's going to just take time because he doesn't have enough of those guys on the team now. He had the misfortune to inherit a roster bereft of talent and depth and full of stubborn veterans, who cut their professional teeth with the simplistic defensive systems that JJ and Wanny implemented. Now that things are complicated they get frustrated the moment things don't go right and revert back to their old ways and then we get breakdowns like last week's 70 yard run by Ahman Green. What makes it worse is their old ways never really worked anyway. 9-7, a losing record in December and a first round playoff bounce is not what I consider success. Give Saban a chance to fill the team with tough minded stout players and don't feed into the media's obsession with finding holes in his plan. Those writers are pissed because they no longer have the open door access they were used to under Wanny, even when it undermined the team.

Saban has a plan alright..and the fruits of that plan have us at 1-6. Whoo-hoo. I know teams can't dump all their players. Thats why I said start with dumping the ones who've been here since before 2004. I'm talking about ZT, JT, Rmac...losers like that. Keep your young players. Find young players who haven't worked out for other teams who you can get cheap. If you can get vets cheap, its ok, but what you don't want to do is hit the out-years with cap money that will be dead. Thats what happened to us since 2002 and look at us. And Saban's not discontinuing it...he perpetuating it.

As for being the laughing stock of the league, I suggest you go to an NFL town. I live in one...and even though its bad here in Tampa, the mantra is "We're better than Miami"....And the damage that is being done is far worse than what I propose, because at least fans would see young players getting better and getting valuable experience. Its what JJ did in Dallas. The first year, 1-15. Second year, 7-9. The third 11-5 and then that team who had gotten the **** kicked out of them for three years (including the 1988 3-13 year) was ready to start making a difference. And evenutally that team won 3-4 SuperBowls. So don't tell me my plan is fantasy. I am borrowing my game plan from a team that won SBs. Saban doesn't even have a plan. Hence, we are 1-6...and 8 days from being 1-7.

 

[TampaFinsFan01]

Pathetic point of view.

Pathetic? Perhaps. True. For Certain. The problem with you people is you get angry at people like me who are merely laying out the facts. You should be upset at the Fins and why they suck.

 

[DefensiveEnd#76]

We have an entire team filled with mentally weak players who are undisciplined.