Darlington explaining more on Aponte & the good opportunity the new GM has

[phinasota]

Is today opposite day with all these good reports??

 

[BIG_FISH_RI]

IF, IF, IF there is a chance that you can get a big time GM candidate, I would not allow anyone currently with this team to stand in the way. Nobody is that valuable.

---------- Post added at 11:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 AM ----------



Hypothetically, if Eric DeCosta told you as the owner...I will come as long as you jettison Dawn Aponte...you would tell him "no"? Unreal.

Agree BUT, you have to see things from Ross view. He had Jeff and he has no confidence in allowing another person to come in and make all decisions. I dont blame him. The effects of Jeff still lingering around here.

To be honest with you, I think Ross is prepared to do the right thing. This is why he reached out to a guy like Dacosta. If you sit back and watch what he is doing he is linign up the up and coming GM's then he will reach out to the more established names. He will then see how things fit and see what makes sense. Ross is a business man and you must understand that. He is not a NFL owner first. That is second. he will make a business decision on what fits for his team. Unlike many here I like Ross. he will do what is right, Just watch. I would not count anyone out in this search. Big name or up and comings. I'm backing Ross for once.

 

[Hayden Fox]

Of course you disagree.

You mention Gamble? You like the way the Eagles do it and bring new GM talent out?

I am not sure what you are asking...

I am stunned that so many are defending the idea of keeping anyone around with this organization even it meant possibly losing out on Grand Slam GM candidate. Stunned.

FYI, Dawn Aponte has not been around for one...count them...one winning season. For that matter, Joe has never been above .500. Nobody...executive, coach or player is that important to the team. I would not let anything stop me for getting a talented executive to chart the course for my team's future.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

I am not sure what you are asking...

I am stunned that so many are defending the idea of keeping anyone around with this organization even it meant possibly losing out on Grand Slam GM candidate. Stunned.

FYI, Dawn Aponte has not been around for one...count them...one winning season. For that matter, Joe has never been above .500. Nobody...executive, coach or player is that important to the team. I would not let anything stop me for getting a talented executive to chart the course for my team's future.

Dude, she literally handles contracts and stuff like overseeing the locker room renovations. She isn't responsible for the product on the field outside of the team's cap health.

Let's see how this plays out. I don't think she will be the dealbreaker that you think she is.

 

[ronnienchambers]

Agree BUT, you have to see things from Ross view. He had Jeff and he has no confidence in allowing another person to come in and make all decisions. I dont blame him. The effects of Jeff still lingering around here.

To be honest with you, I think Ross is prepared to do the right thing. This is why he reached out to a guy like Dacosta. If you sit back and watch what he is doing he is linign up the up and coming GM's then he will reach out to the more established names. He will then see how things fit and see what makes sense. Ross is a business man and you must understand that. He is not a NFL owner first. That is second. he will make a business decision on what fits for his team. Unlike many here I like Ross. he will do what is right, Just watch. I would not count anyone out in this search. Big name or up and comings. I'm backing Ross for once.

Good post. I don't think Ross has committed to a management structure yet (I could be wrong but didn't think it was specifically stated in his announcement), all he has said is the new GM will report to him. This means he is going to assess his confidence in the new GM and keep his options open which makes good business sense.

 

[roy_miami]

There are actually fewer than 32 of these final say GM jobs in the NFL. They don't open up that frequently -- in fact, this is the only one open this year.

I'm not terribly concerned about the team's ability to find a great candidate.

Plus, Philbin being in place already basically ensures the GM will have a stay of execution (for lack of a better phrase) beyond what he'd normally have with a total rebuild. The candidate should realize his tenure will last for at least 2 head coaches, so if anything, Philbin being on staff should make the offer even more enticing.

 

[Hayden Fox]

Dude, she literally handles contracts and stuff like overseeing the locker room renovations. She isn't responsible for the product on the field outside of the team's cap health.

Let's see how this plays out. I don't think she will be the dealbreaker that you think she is.

However, the idea that she and Joe are close....allies bothers me. If Ross is insisting on Joe staying put, Aponte is the odd woman out.

Look, if the guy I loved for GM did not care about having her around, I would keep her. However, I would let her go soooo fast if I could get the dream candidate. You would, right? Or would you turn down Tom Gamble or Eric DeCosta simply to keep a person does contracts? What universe am I living in?

 

[phins_4_ever]

I am not sure what you are asking...

I am stunned that so many are defending the idea of keeping anyone around with this organization even it meant possibly losing out on Grand Slam GM candidate. Stunned.

FYI, Dawn Aponte has not been around for one...count them...one winning season. For that matter, Joe has never been above .500. Nobody...executive, coach or player is that important to the team. I would not let anything stop me for getting a talented executive to chart the course for my team's future.

Honestly, your chitter-chatter means nothing. Aponte has nothing to do and never had anything to do with building the team. So your rah-rah about no winning season with Aponte is totally absurd.

The reason why I ask about Phildadelphia is simple. Here is your quote:

I disagree with Darlington. Allow the GM to build the franchise with people he wants. If you can get a DeCosta or Gamble, allow them to have the keys, kitchen sink, bath water etc. I would not allow anyone...VP, HC, QB etc. get in they way of a great personnel guy.

You are listing a person (Gamble) from an organization (Eagles) who has a structure like this:

The young GM Howie Roseman has a) a Czar in an advisory role and b) is only advising the Head Coach Chip Kelly. Kelly has final say in all personal matters.

You are willing to give the key to someone who is growing in an environment in which the entire personal office is in an advisory function to the HC.

You really do not know how this league works.

Roseman was hired by the Philadelphia Eagles as an unpaid intern to work on salary cap issues in 2000. He was promoted to director of football administration in 2003. He was promoted to vice president of football administration in 2006. He was promoted to vice president of player personnel on May 30, 2008. He was promoted to general manager on January 29, 2010 after Tom Heckert was hired by the Cleveland Browns in the same role.[4]

Although Roseman has the title of general manager, he works mainly in an advisory role to head coach Chip Kelly, who has the final say in football matters.[5] This was also the case under Kelly's predecessor, Andy Reid.[6]

On November 6, 2012, Roseman was given a contract extension. The contract was extended at least four years.[7]

 

[MD]

However, the idea that she and Joe are close....allies bothers me. If Ross is insisting on Joe staying put, Aponte is the odd woman out.

Look, if the guy I loved for GM did not care about having her around, I would keep her. However, I would let her go soooo fast if I could get the dream candidate. You would, right? Or would you turn down Tom Gamble or Eric DeCosta simply to keep a person does contracts? What universe am I living in?

Dawn Aponte is not the reason why Tom Gamble or Eric DeCosta are not coming to Miami. Your taking a page from the Salguero playbook with that one.

 

[rent this space]

Having complete control over the franchise is too much for most. Guys with one expertise like scouting can get lost in the other aspects of running the team like coaching personnel and player contracts. There are very few that I would give total power

 

[phinasota]

However, the idea that she and Joe are close....allies bothers me. If Ross is insisting on Joe staying put, Aponte is the odd woman out.

Look, if the guy I loved for GM did not care about having her around, I would keep her. However, I would let her go soooo fast if I could get the dream candidate. You would, right? Or would you turn down Tom Gamble or Eric DeCosta simply to keep a person does contracts? What universe am I living in?

Damn dude stop listening to armando already. Your gonna go gray, fast

 

[Hayden Fox]

Honestly, your chitter-chatter means nothing. Aponte has nothing to do and never had anything to do with building the team. So your rah-rah about no winning season with Aponte is totally absurd.

The reason why I ask about Phildadelphia is simple. Here is your quote:


You are listing a person (Gamble) from an organization (Eagles) who has a structure like this:

The young GM Howie Roseman has a) a Czar in an advisory role and b) is only advising the Head Coach Chip Kelly. Kelly has final say in all personal matters.

You are willing to give the key to someone who is growing in an environment in which the entire personal office is in an advisory function to the HC.

You really do not know how this league works.

Ok...if she has nothing to do with building a winner on the field, then she is obviously not that valuable to keep around. IF the guy I want, wanted her out...she is gone. Easy enough.

As for the Eagles, you are the first person to describe Howie Roseman as a czar. He in fact is not...he is the GM. Kelly DOES have say on final personnel matters (I think that you meant personnel not personal matters...I would assume that Kelly has the final say as well in his personal life too). However, if Roseman was czar as you stated, he would not be an "advisor". A czar does not advise. ALL things football go through him.

I think actually while I am certainly not an expert, I do have a handle on a czar vs. an advisor.

 

[JTC111]

Hayden - I typically agree with you but this is one we disagree on. I wouldnt want 1 person responsible for the building of a "TEAM" it is just that a TEAM and all parts must work together. The GM and HC must see eye to eye and have a plan in place when they don't. That is the only and best way for a team to work. All parts must agree and give here and there. The plan must be clear and you must be accountable for your share.

I think there's an important distinction to be made. I don't think Hayden is saying (and if I'm wrong then this is just my opinion) the GM should make personnel decisions without some idea of what kind of player will fit into a particular system, or without some idea as to what skills the HC prioritizes over other skills. So there's input in that sense. But if you find someone who is a great evaluator of talent, you tell him what your recipe calls for and you let him find the best ingredients he can.

I'm not a fan of the "let the HC have the final say" philosophy because the HC usually doesn't have as much time invested in comprehensive evaluation as do others in the organization. I'm hoping that the GM and whoever in the organizational structure is involved in evaluation are pouring over hundreds of tapes, calling schools and coaches for character evaluations, having meetings where they debate strengths and weaknesses, ranking players, etc. I hope the process is intensive and deliberative, and I can't see how, with all the other duties they're responsible for, a head coach can be as effective in doing that as someone whose main job is doing that unless they're incredibly obsessive and willing to give up any kind of life outside of football.

Good post. I don't think Ross has committed to a management structure yet (I could be wrong but didn't think it was specifically stated in his announcement), all he has said is the new GM will report to him. This means he is going to assess his confidence in the new GM and keep his options open which makes good business sense.

He said the GM will have autonomous power over the roster.

 

[ronnienchambers]

I think there's an important distinction to be made. I don't think Hayden is saying (and if I'm wrong then this is just my opinion) the GM should make personnel decisions without some idea of what kind of player will fit into a particular system, or without some idea as to what skills the HC prioritizes over other skills. So there's input in that sense. But if you find someone who is a great evaluator of talent, you tell him what your recipe calls for and you let him find the best ingredients he can.

I'm not a fan of the "let the HC have the final say" philosophy because the HC usually doesn't have as much time invested in comprehensive evaluation as do others in the organization. I'm hoping that the GM and whoever in the organizational structure is involved in evaluation are pouring over hundreds of tapes, calling schools and coaches for character evaluations, having meetings where they debate strengths and weaknesses, ranking players, etc. I hope the process is intensive and deliberative, and I can't see how, with all the other duties they're responsible for, a head coach can be as effective in doing that as someone whose main job is doing that unless they're incredibly obsessive and willing to give up any kind of life outside of football.



He said the GM will have autonomous power over the roster.

Yes he stated the power the new GM will definitely have but didn't explicitly state that the new GM will not have power to fire the coach. He is leaving the management reporting structure open based on the candidate in my opinion. That is what I read out of his quote below but that is just my interpretation....

"Regardless of reporting structure, the relationship between the General Manager and Coach Philbin must be one of trust, respect, and collaboration, and this will be an area we will look closely at during the process" from Ross

 

[phins_4_ever]

Ok...if she has nothing to do with building a winner on the field, then she is obviously not that valuable to keep around. IF the guy I want, wanted her out...she is gone. Easy enough.

As for the Eagles, you are the first person to describe Howie Roseman as a czar. He in fact is not...he is the GM. Kelly DOES have say on final personnel matters (I think that you meant personnel not personal matters...I would assume that Kelly has the final say as well in his personal life too). However, if Roseman was czar as you stated, he would not be an "advisor". A czar does not advise. ALL things football go through him.

I think actually while I am certainly not an expert, I do have a handle on a czar vs. an advisor.

Dude...can you read?

Aponte is on the business side. She handles the money., No money no players period.
WTF is wrong with you? Don't you get the Dolphins structure.

And I never said that Howie is a czar. He has one. It is Tom Donahue he is the adviser to Howie....and Howie advises Chip on players and Chip makes the final decision.

A czar in the NFL is in an advisory/mentor position.
We are not in friggin old Russia where a czar is the political leader.
Is it that hard to understand?????