Dave Hyde: Chris Grier is the Liam Eichenberg of general managers | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Dave Hyde: Chris Grier is the Liam Eichenberg of general managers

...because Ross is (and aims to remain) the one in control.

He's looking for a GM in name only, a subordinate to assist in the carrying out of his own vision.



If Ross is the one controlling the HC hiring (which I believe he is based on his adoration of these guys at the time of their hirings), why would he ever welcome any new GM candidate who asked for control over the HC hiring process?

Ross treats it like it's his team...which it is.



And why are they required to?

Because Ross controls everything...who goes, who stays, who gets hired, etc.

These aren't pre-conditions as much as they're simply Ross' preferences!

You act like rich people with the money to treat an NFL franchise as their play-thing want to collaborate. Do you honestly believe that or is the simplest answer not the most likely, which is that a rich guy calls all the shots and hires only those who allow him to continue doing so?

Is it really all that surprising that a powerful, wealthy elite bought the team and sees fit to do as he pleases?



Exactly!

There hasn't been a clean slate....since Ross took over!

Ross is the ceo of a multi-billion dollar commercial real estate business
The Dolphins are his toy that turn a profit regardless of the on-field product for him, he doesn't even live in South Florida most of the year.
If you think he's spending most of his time scouting and barking orders about the football operations side of the team then we can agree to disagree.
 
If anyone on this blog is CONFIDENT in Chris Grier getting us to sniff a SuperBowl, please stand up and reveal yourself!

Being that it's been 40 years now since the Dolphins last played in a Super Bowl and 33 years since they sniffed a SB (AFC Championship), I'm not confident ANY GM can come in and sniff a Super Bowl so easily. This time period included 2 HOF coaches and multiple HOF players (Marino, JT, Zach).

Disclaimer: I feel Grier should be fired. Just pointing out I won't be confident in anything until I see it on the field.
 
Ross is the ceo of a multi-billion dollar commercial real estate business
The Dolphins are his toy that turn a profit regardless of the on-field product for him, he doesn't even live in South Florida most of the year.
If you think he's spending most of his time scouting and barking orders about the football operations side of the team then we can agree to disagree.

I think he's very hands-on.

He's tampered with multiple people, flown cross-county to chase people down and gotten himself suspended by the NFL!

That's pretty hands-on, LOL.

Heck, he's always in the locker room after the game high-fiving players and he's literally taken those moments of jubilation to announce his support for the HC, tossing game-balls and going so far as to announce Philbin's extension / return.

Is he scouting the FA market and finding Jonnu Smith? Of course not, but that's why you hire a GM like Grier who's competent enough to run the ship in your absence and work with the HC and Scouting department in order to flesh out the roster.

I don't see any GM in the world constantly flip-flopping though: hiring & firing HCs, tanking one year and trading all the picks away the next, extending Tua when very few football people saw it as a good move.

You have to have a pretty low opinion of Chris Grier to think he somehow knows less / acts less rationally than people on YouTube, Finheaven, etc.

A billionaire Owner who wants total control and has historically acted as such?

That's pretty much par for the course though, LOL.

Riddle me this...what experienced Coach, Player or Exec has left Miami with good things to say about the leadership? Has anyone said good things about Ross? All I see is a long line of scorned personnel...heck, Flores filed a lawsuit against the guy, LOL.
 
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In 2014 Hickey was hired because the team had just came out of bullygate and the Philbin Ireland relationship went toxic. Philbin was still here and it can be argued any candidate with career prospects didn't want to be straddled with that. If you look at our GMs under Ross : Ireland, Hickey, Tannenbaum, and then Grier none of them were ever sought out commodities before their hiring. For as much as Ross seems to go after highly sought after HC candidates he doesn't seem to apply that same logic to GMs for whatever reason, none of those guys were sought after before they were GM (or whatever Tannenbaum was) and not after. I doubt Grier ever sniffs another GM job again once his time here is over just like the other 3. It's also worth noting we were Mike McDaniel's only interview request during the coaching cycle and it was between him and Kellen Moore who finally got a HC job this year. It's likely a highly sought after GM candidate is going to want to bring in his own guy and Mike McDaniel might cause these guys to look elsewhere following this year if Grier is gone; i think Champ Kelly is probably the next GM whether we like it or not anyways. I don't think Ross is calling the shots behind the scene, i think the issue is the people that interview are required to take on conditions such as an existing HC or GM leftover from the last regime, if you recall Grier and Ross wanted whoever was hired in 2022 to retain Boyer on top of working with Grier, who just had a nasty divorce with Flores. There has not been a clean slate with the franchise since the team fired Cam Cameron in 2007, at least one person has rolled over, either GM or HC, since Parcells was hired which was also when Ross bought the team in late 2007.
IOW, Ross is an idiot when it comes to football. He's never cleaned house; he always takes half-a$$ measures. And, every single personnel decision that has been made since he took over has been bad for the team. IMO, the Dolphins are screwed until Ross either sells the team, or he gets someone with experience to choose the next GM and HC.
 
IOW, Ross is an idiot when it comes to football. He's never cleaned house; he always takes half-a$$ measures. And, every single personnel decision that has been made since he took over has been bad for the team. IMO, the Dolphins are screwed until Ross either sells the team, or he gets someone with experience to choose the next GM and HC.

I mean...probably?
 
It isn't an all or nothing proposition, as the GM he has input in personnel and the other people that have a considerable amount of input were hired by him (Allen, McKenzie, McDaniel, Flores etc)
This is his front office and scouting department he built, he also got to pick the HC twice.

I don't blame CG for the HCs - Ross has most say. My knock on Grier is his staff. Same crappy scouts for years
 
I don't blame CG for the HCs - Ross has most say. My knock on Grier is his staff. Same crappy scouts for years

Grier got to hire Flores himself, they had been friends for years before he was hired
Ross was not the person behind hiring Flores
It's more gray with McDaniel, but Flores was a Grier hire.
 
Dave Hyde writes negative articles - writers like him Brian Miller of Phin Phanatic, on the national level Colin Cowherd, they say/write things about the Dolphins that makes you wonder if they just can't see what really goes on or just have agendas that they must keep up with. Not too long ago, Dave Hyde was questioning the work that Chris Grier has done. The performance on the field is a teamwork of not only the Front Office but the Coaching Staff as well and Injury luck. The last 3 years, anyone being objective will tell you that the Injuries played a part in either the Dolphins losing in the Playoffs or not get there like last year. Chris Grier's job is to get his Coaches the Players and he does a good job of that. Last year, being cap-strapped, he was able to get Pro Bowl caliber guys like Jonnu S., A. Brewer, J. Brooks, Calais C.! Even this year, with around $20M only in cap space, he has signed 1 starting Safety, re-signed starting ILB, 1 starting G, #3 WR, upgrade at Punter, top 3 blocking TE per Seattle's GM! Just 8-9 months ago, the Players voted Miami with the second most top 100 players! PFF and Fox among others voted Miami as a top 10 talented team last Summer. Grier is not perfect but he does a much better job than some people want you to believe.
it’s concerning you blame injuries without realizing the GM deliberately brings in players with injury histories… and said players follow by getting injured.

It’s concerning because you want to defend something indefensible by not thinking through the WHY.
 
I think he's very hands-on.

He's tampered with multiple people, flown cross-county to chase people down and gotten himself suspended by the NFL!

That's pretty hands-on, LOL.

Heck, he's always in the locker room after the game high-fiving players and he's literally taken those moments of jubilation to announce his support for the HC, tossing game-balls and going so far as to announce Philbin's extension / return.

Is he scouting the FA market and finding Jonnu Smith? Of course not, but that's why you hire a GM like Grier who's competent enough to run the ship in your absence and work with the HC and Scouting department in order to flesh out the roster.

I don't see any GM in the world constantly flip-flopping though: hiring & firing HCs, tanking one year and trading all the picks away the next, extending Tua when very few football people saw it as a good move.

You have to have a pretty low opinion of Chris Grier to think he somehow knows less / acts less rationally than people on YouTube, Finheaven, etc.

A billionaire Owner who wants total control and has historically acted as such?

That's pretty much par for the course though, LOL.

Riddle me this...what experienced Coach, Player or Exec has left Miami with good things to say about the leadership? Has anyone said good things about Ross? All I see is a long line of scorned personnel...heck, Flores filed a lawsuit against the guy, LOL.

When did I ever say Grier knows less than people on youtube or here? I missed that one.
We're getting lost in the weeds here, I'm not happy with how Ross has approached the football operations side of the team since he got here.
Particularly I'm dissatisfied with regard to who he continues to allow to run the team's personnel department from Ireland, Tannenbaum, and Grier. The only one that ever showed proficiency was Tannenbaum with the Jets and he made such a mess there he was out of the NFL before Ross brought him aboard.
I've seen multiple deflections on the issue of Grier's job performance ranging from lack of agency for personnel decisions and now it's Ross behind the scenes calling the shots, what the evidence does exhibit is Grier is an average GM, but a great behind the scenes lobbyist, no matter who he gets to work with pertaining to Head Coach.
If Ross put as much effort into finding a credentialed GM, such as getting on a plane to get Harbaugh or trying to hire Sean Payton, as he did in finding a head coach the team might have won a playoff game or division title at this point in his ownership.
Hindsight is 20/20, but expecting Grier to master a re-build in 2019 was probably Ross's biggest mistake as an owner that continues to compound.
 
So all the defendants of Dave Hydes that have posted here and who knows may be one is Dave Hyde himself, please list the accomplishments that you believe makes a successful GM. Remember success or failure in Playoffs is a teamwork thing (GM, Coaches, even Owner) so no one person/position can take the credit or blame for that. I contend fielding a top 10 talented team is a reasonable measure of a GM and Grier has done that the last 3 years with the present regime. But talent alone does not make a successful team otherwise 49ers wouldn't win only 6 games last year and looked overmatched against your Dolphins! Is it their GM's fault that their keys guys got hurt? I will say Grier has not done too well in the Drafts - hits and misses - but he does very well in Free Agency and Trades and handling of the Salary Cap. We did lose a first round pick a couple of years ago for tampering so that did hurt some. The Tunsil trade and 3rd overall pick for Trey Lance were major hits that makes up this team the last 3 years.
 
Chris Grier fcking sucks. Debatably the worst GM in the league. Nothing personal but I have no idea how some can still defend this guy.
He's putrid.

The one thing he did well, for the most part, was get value when tearing down the roster.

That and acquiring Tyreek were legit.

I'm still furious at the trade back up for Waddle.
 
I can understand the frustration with the Dolphins as a whole. They're finding a way to F up as they make questionable long-term commitments, as they let home-grown talent walk, as they hemorrhage picks, etc.

I just don't know where Chris Grier fits into the equation.

He's not behind every decision.

We have one of the boldest Owners in the NFL. Ross spends like crazy. He runs off qualified people. He tampers. He gets himself suspended. He goes behind the back of his own people while negotiating in private with players, coaches and agents from around the NFL...

...to say this is 'Chris Grier's team' takes a lot of balls.



I mean, not that long ago the Dolphins tried to hire a new GM and despite interviewing several people and reportedly making offers to many of them, no one would take the job. Dennis Hickey was like, what, the 5th guy offered the job or something crazy like that?

Broadly speaking, what exactly has changed about the Dolphins since Grier became GM? Do you not remember the coming and going of HCs prior to Grier? Do you not remember the questionable extensions prior to Grier? Do you not remember the splashy moves for players who cost and arm and a leg?

Everything people complain about predates Chris Grier. To blame Chris Grier is to think only about his tenure and to forget basically all this extends back to '09 when Parcells first quit when Ross took power.



I think Grier builds out the roster (particularly the middle and deeper portions of it). I can believe for that same reason that he runs the drafts, but I think he does that along with input from coaches he doesn't hire. I think he's trying to work with who Ross tells him he has to work with: Gase, Flores, McDaniel, etc.

A GM wouldn't hire & fire HCs like that. He would execute according to a single vision year after year. Yet Ross has talked up every one of those hires. I think that all points to Ross being behind those hires. After all, it's his team. Why would Ross not be making those big decisions?

I think Grier is in Miami because the money & job security is good. I have no faith the next guy won't be even more a shill for the Owner letting Ross get even more involved and doing so without finding the good, cheap players that Grier occasionally turns up.

If we fire Chris Grier, he'll be instantly picked up and integrated into another organization and if that next organization has a more reasonable Ownership, it's very likely Grier's abilities will lead to that organization having success.



Some people will also blame Grier for not changing Ross' attitude but I remind you that we've already crossed this bridge. Ross took power from Bill Parcells and ran him out. He's had no problem pushing away veteran coaches who wanted out after just a single year within the organization (eg. Gailey, Fangio). He wanted no part in Dan Campbell when he was here.

Ross tried to hire a GM and nobody wanted to serve him and thus he promoted a guy from within who had marginal qualifications who he knew would take the paycheck and be subordinate.

If we fired Grier, I'm pretty sure the line for GM would be short and we'd very likely end up with someone even worse.

Last year, Grier did nothing to offend us instead bringing us long-term developmental players on cheap deals at Edge, LT, WR and RB alongside valuable contributors at TE, C and MLB on modest FA contracts. That's hardly driving the team into the ground!

What Ross gave us was an uncomfortable, $200M extension to a QB who I'm pretty sure any GM in the world would've agreed was a huge liability / risk and who very much needed to play out his 5th year extension. Keep in mind, $200M deal's like that don't get done without Ownership being completely onboard.


To blame Grier is to forget how much Ross controls this team. Grier has his mistakes and I really wonder about the exodus of good talent: Minkah, Wilkins, AVG, Hunt, etc. Why don't these players show interest in sticking around? It's not just money. These players generally find Miami is toxic. It's not a winning organization because leadership is a mess and yes, Grier needs to be held accountable as much as anyone else.

But I sincerely doubt any GM would've made the '09-'24 Ross era make sense.
Well if losing Grier is actually going to make us worse I’m all for it. A couple years of top 3 draft picks and maybe even the Dolphins with an owner like Ross can win. 20 years of Grier’s genius counterbalancing Ross to mediocre and less results just isn’t doing it for me.
 
So all the defendants of Dave Hydes that have posted here and who knows may be one is Dave Hyde himself, please list the accomplishments that you believe makes a successful GM. Remember success or failure in Playoffs is a teamwork thing (GM, Coaches, even Owner) so no one person/position can take the credit or blame for that. I contend fielding a top 10 talented team is a reasonable measure of a GM and Grier has done that the last 3 years with the present regime. But talent alone does not make a successful team otherwise 49ers wouldn't win only 6 games last year and looked overmatched against your Dolphins! Is it their GM's fault that their keys guys got hurt? I will say Grier has not done too well in the Drafts - hits and misses - but he does very well in Free Agency and Trades and handling of the Salary Cap. We did lose a first round pick a couple of years ago for tampering so that did hurt some. The Tunsil trade and 3rd overall pick for Trey Lance were major hits that makes up this team the last 3 years.
You seem to be a poster who knows top 10 talent and..

No, sorry I can’t, was going to make a joke but obviously just kidding.
 
He's putrid.

The one thing he did well, for the most part, was get value when tearing down the roster.

That and acquiring Tyreek were legit.

I'm still furious at the trade back up for Waddle.
He got a gift on that tunsil trade and that’s about it. I remember when ppl would say “the gift that keeps on giving” but only a few years later and it didn’t really give shitt 😂
 
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