DE Marquise Hill, perfect replacement for Ogunleye? | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

DE Marquise Hill, perfect replacement for Ogunleye?

ckparrothead

ckparrothead

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Alright guys I'll admit it I'm bored. Just takin shots in the dark.

Lets say we get rid of Ogun. Would this guy seem like a perfect replacement?

DE | (6'6", 305, 4.95) | LSU | COLLEGE STATS
Data from Scouts, Inc.


Grade: 83
Alerts: (S: SPEED) Player lacks ideal speed at position

Comments: Hill has exceptional size. Plays high at times, lets blockers get into his pads. Must use hands better, use leverage. Biggest end prospect in 2004 class, could develop into best run defender of group. Quick, powerful. Very good recognition. Can hold ground, disengage, locate ball, pursue. Good closing burst for size, powerful, reliable tackler. Lacks ideal speed. Will not turn corner on a consistent basis as pass rusher. Very good quickness, excellent power as pass rusher. Athletic, changes directions smoothly. Will work outside-in as pass rusher. Great potential as bull rusher. Must learn to play lower and with leverage. Continues to improve run/pass recognition skills. Tall, seems to see thing well. Great at sniffing out screens. Otherwise lacks savvy. Late recognizing run at times. Occasionally takes himself out of plays by not reading blocks/ taking easy way out. Adequate in pursuit. Good motor, good closing burst, not a great athlete. Below-average speed. Very good in short area. Closes quickly, great power as tackler, does fine job of tackling in space, especially for a big, tall end. Hill started 13 of 14 games in his final season at LSU and finished with 10.5 tackles for loss and six sacks. Hill is one of the most intriguing prospects in this draft. He should have returned to school because he needs to improve his technique and is still developing, but he's worth drafting at a higher spot than his grades indicate because of his upside. Some teams might move him to tackle, but we think his best fit is at end. He has terrific height, wingspan and strength to stop the run at end. He lacks ideal speed for a pass rusher, but he is quick and powerful enough to create penetration off the edge in a power-end role
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That, according to Scouts Inc.

Boomer also did a nice write-up that focuses on Hill's potential.

4. Marquise Hill - LSU
6-6 1/2 | 305 | 23 | 29" | N/A | 5.22

Hill is a fascinating character. Huge for a DE at 305 and almost 6-7, he is a tremendously difficult player to block because of his size, his great wingspan and his power. He’s a great fit at LDE and I think the LSU junior will come off the board somewhere in the late-first, early-second round area. He came to Baton Rouge as a prep football superstar and rated by a number of publications as the number one defensive lineman in the nation (including Tom Lemming, who also awarded him National Lineman of the Year honours). He was rated as high as the seventh overall prospect in the country by SuperPrep when he left De La Salle in New Orleans after a senior season that saw him record 92 tackles and eight sacks as well as force five fumbles and block a punt. He looks like your archetypal LDE at the next level, who could, at 305, play DT in a lot of schemes.

When you watch him on film, you are blown away first off by his size – the kid is massive. He has what scouts refer to as a ‘huge bubble,’ which is a massive backside. He ****s his backside way up in the air at the line of scrimmage, almost like a jockey and it takes him a while to unfurl his frame and get up into his stride. He lacks explosion off the ball and isn’t a natural pass rusher, but he has a relentless nature about him. Considering his much-hyped status, he was a disappointment his first two years, struggling to get on the field as a freshman and then as a sophomore he had 58 total tackles, but only 4.5 for losses and just three sacks. But he really played his best football as a junior, starting 13 of 14 games for the Bayou Bengals in 2003, registering 40 tackles, including 10.5 for losses. Hill added six sacks and a team-best 24 quarterback hurries for a squad that finished national champs and #1 in the nation in scoring defense and total defense. He strongly considered leaving for the pros but initially turned down the chance after his mum made an announcement on a local New Orleans station that he was returning for his senior year at Baton Rouge. But his involvement with an agent put his eligibility as a collegiate player in question, and rather than go through an appeal process to regain his eligibility, he decided to declare.

Personally when I watch him, I think it’s a mistake, technique-wise. But his huge frame and the way he plays make me think he’s going to be a bright player in the NFL. And I’m not sure I know why. He’s still immensely raw and despite working under Nick Saban, has a long way to go til he’s the finished article. But the upside is massive and he can really be anything he wants. When you watch him at RDE he’s at least half a step slower off the ball than anyone else on the LSU line and at least a step behind Marcus Spears and Chad Lavalais. He has excellent hands, understands leverage and is relentless in his movement. He also shows a decent ability as a pass rusher to change direction in a hurry, either overpowering OTs or using an immensely strong swim move to get to the passer. His favourite move though seems to be the old grab-and-yank manoeuvre. He seems to play at the same pace the entire game, but his last two steps to the QB are very quick and whilst he doesn’t pursue with any great speed, he does a nice job of following the play and picking up the tackle when the runner cuts back. Hill also moves well laterally, although he plays with his head up and is susceptible to cut blocks. That said, unless he’s being cut, he’s rarely off his feet. As a pure edge rusher, if a tackle gets his hands on him and can work him to the outside then it’s usually a done deal because he doesn’t have the speed to get around. But if he can get his hands up first and get his pads low, then he has excellent balance for a big man. He is an overpowering-type rush end rather than a moves guy and his bull rush is pretty stunning. When I watch him, I’m surprised he just ripped 29 on the bench press.

As a run defender, he’s strong at the point, anchoring well, although he can get blown out of the lane by the double-team. He has a huge wingspan which allows him to get up and block balls or reach over or around his tackle and grab ball carriers. A solid tackler, he plays inside at DT on 3rd downs for Nick Saban’s men and is a very good stunter. I don’t think he got anywhere near the limits of his potential at LSU and was heavily criticised because of this, but when I watch him, I think he’s going to be a solid lineman down the line. I don’t think he’s a Miami-type player, as he’s too small for T and too slow for what we do at end, but I like him nonetheless. Should be a first-rounder on long-term potential alone. One major footnote with him is his injury status; he has had shoulder and ankle problems during his career, but more worrying is that seemingly a number of teams have backed off a little because he has a bipolar condition similar to that of Dimitrius Underwood.

He has all the physical tools you look for but those tools need harnessing if he is to fulfil his huge potential.
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Here is the link of course to Boomers writeups please read them all they are fantastic.

http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/de/de2/index.php#hill


So anyway, note at the end of Hill's eval with Boomer, Marquise Hill has great potential but has a bipolar condition. The only two guys I know in the NFL who had bipolar conditions are Alonzo Spellman and Dimitrius Underwood.

Neither panned out very well. This leads me to believe that when we are sitting there at our 3rd round pick, Marquise Hill probably WILL be there IMO.

To me as a player Hill seems like another Kenny Mixon type (even come from the same school I think)...really good against the run, will struggle to get great passrush skills out of him. He seems like a Mixon type but seems to have more potential than Mixon for getting sacks opposite Taylor. My honest opinion of Ogunleye, and Trace Armstrong before him, is they were good bull rushers and very disciplined passrushers in general able to take advantage of some of the havoc that Jason Taylor stirs up at RDE. Not that they are/were incapable of getting sacks on their own, I'm just saying that without Taylor opposite them, Ogun and Armstrong are/were likely 7 or 8 sack guys, but with JT there they have the ability to be 10 to 15 sack guys. Hill seems like a good run defender at DE with the physical tools (other than speed) to be maybe a 5, 6, or 7 sack guy....but opposite JT if he stays disciplined, maybe he could be a 10-12 sack guy.


Just thinkin out loud.
 
I don't know about Hill, but anyone else think we'll pick Will Smith (DE) if he's there with our 1st round pick, as a potential replacement for O-Gun if he leaves, this year or the next? He has amazing speed for a DE, reminds me of Taylor but bigger, does anyone know what Taylor runs, is it near 4.53?
 
I hate it everytime anyone says "get rid of Ogun".

Ozzy rules!!
 
Originally posted by ckparrothead
And I never said "get rid of Ogun"
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OMG, Yes you did. You said...."lets say we get rid of Ogun"
But I'm hoping you didn't really mean it that way.

Ozzy rules!!
 
I'm not sold on Andrews, however I do think if he's there our F/O could pick him depending on who's on the board at the time. By signing a DE high that puts all the cards in the hand of RS when it comes to negotiating with O-Gun. He could say "look if you don't want to play for us then find someone to trade two high picks for you, if not play for something reasonable for this year and get your money next year"
 
Even for a college player, he's obviously very raw. I sure hope the fins replace the no.1 AFC sack leader with a raw rookie who may pan out in 3 years.
 
Well we wouldn't be replacing him this year, because no one's going to give him the money he wants or the draft picks we want. The question is, if he's really "great" then why is no one jumping to give him Wistrom money? IMO Wistrom is a good player but not "great."
 
He sounds like a DE for first and second down and then, in our scheme, aguy who would slide inside and allow a speed rusher to come on the field. We have a guy like that in Jay Williams.

Also doesn't he sound like a perfect fit at DE for a team playing a 3-4?
 
Wait who's very raw? Hill or Will Smith? Who's the DE you're talking about playing in a 3-4?
 


My honest opinion of Ogunleye, and Trace Armstrong before him, is they were good bull rushers and very disciplined passrushers in general able to take advantage of some of the havoc that Jason Taylor stirs up at RDE. Not that they are/were incapable of getting sacks on their own, I'm just saying that without Taylor opposite them, Ogun and Armstrong are/were likely 7 or 8 sack guys, but with JT there they have the ability to be 10 to 15 sack guys. Hill seems like a good run defender at DE with the physical tools (other than speed) to be maybe a 5, 6, or 7 sack guy....but opposite JT if he stays disciplined, maybe he could be a 10-12 sack guy.


Just thinkin out loud. [/B]
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I disagree with your analysis of OGUN.

You discredit him and his style by lumping him with Trace. I've noticed OGUN's several moves to get to the QB....he uses a combination of moves that make it very difficult for a lineman to guess right all the time.
Unlike Jason....who speed rushes most of the time....OGUN has developed an awesome rip/swim move....and a sort of up and under move that utilizes his leverage/power that puts the olineman at a disadvantage if they do not have quick feet.
He knows how to get sacks on his own.
I don't think he is finished developing moves yet. I think he will get better.
 
OMG, Yes you did. You said...."lets say we get rid of Ogun"
But I'm hoping you didn't really mean it that way.
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I was speaking very hypothetically. I thought it was rather obvious.

And no Ogunleye would not be replaced by Hill in the short run if we did trade Ogunleye. He would be replaced by a combination of David Bowens, Jay Williams, and Marquise Hill...with Hill being the guy that has the potential in the long run to take hold of the LDE spot full-time like Ogunleye did.

Hill could be a guy that moves inside on 3rd down and if that is the case yes he could eventually replace Jay Williams who is no spring chicken lets face it.

No draft pick outside of Kenechi Udeze or Will Smith would or should be expected to fill Ogunleye's shoes. For that task unless we're talking Smith (who would not make it past Minnesota at #19) or Udeze (who we would have to trade up a lot for), we're talking about a part-time player.

I was just pointing out that of the DEs in the draft Jason Babin to me seems like a light passrushing DE with tremendous athleticism that could end up like a Jason Taylor, or he could end up like a David Bowens...in terms of NFL success, two sides of the same spectrum. Antwan Odom I originally thought was a guy a lot like Ogunleye...and he still might be considered such. But Marquise Hill seems like the type we like at LDE, a guy who is good against the run but can get after the passer every now and then utilizing the havoc that Jason Taylor wreaks...kinda like what we HOPED Kenny Mixon would be.
 
You discredit him and his style by lumping him with Trace. I've noticed OGUN's several moves to get to the QB....he uses a combination of moves that make it very difficult for a lineman to guess right all the time.
Unlike Jason....who speed rushes most of the time....OGUN has developed an awesome rip/swim move....and a sort of up and under move that utilizes his leverage/power that puts the olineman at a disadvantage if they do not have quick feet.
He knows how to get sacks on his own.
I don't think he is finished developing moves yet. I think he will get better.
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I respectfully disagree. I think that if Jason Taylor were 26 or 27 years old and were tendered for a 1st and 3rd, there would be probably like 5 or 6 teams bidding on his services via restricted free agency. Ogunleye is 26 years old and is a restricted free agent and nobody was willing to give up a 1st and 3rd for him, opting instead to overpay guys like Jevon Kearse and Grant Wistrom. I remember one coach during the season I forget exactly which coach it was, at the time Ogunleye had been doing real well while Taylor was in a slump to start out the year, and the coach went on record with a newspaper saying I know people are talking about Ogunleye's production right now but when I look at the tape the guy that still scares me is Jason Taylor...forget what the stats say so far.

What scares me about committing big money to Ogun is that his production reminds me soooo much of Trace Armstrong. In nearly every statistical category I can think of, and have bothered to check on, Ogun's production this year with the 15.5 sacks mirrors Armstrong's with the 16.5 sacks. I'm talking everything, from the total number of sacks gotten by DEs opposite JT, to the way Oguns sacks seem to come 2 or even 3 at a time where Taylors seem to come at a steady stream of 1 sack per game.
 
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