phinzfan21
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Really this thread probably just needs to ride into the sunset now. =)
Debate for the best CB tandem
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The New Guy
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I think we have debated this to the bone, but I could not help but respond to that. I fully understand that numbers are not black and white. You however, seem to only use your rules when they benefit your arguments. You argue that the Dolphins were a weak team because they had an easy schedule, but you don't apply that to SD, or your own team. The 09 Jets beat 1 playoff bound team, and 2 playoff teams that clearly had no desire to win. The Dolphins beat 11-5 NE, 8-8 SD, 8-8 Den, 9-7 NYJ, and a lot of bad teams to go 11-5. You say that only one of those teams is a playoff team, but don't apply those same rules to 09 Cincy. You claim that the only reason Pitt did not make the playoffs in 09 was because Cincy beat them. That does not apply to the teams the Dolphins beat? The 09 Jets beat 9-7 Hou, 10-6 NE, and 8-8 Tenn. The 09 Jets also lost 6 games against non playoff teams. The 08 Dolphins only lost 3 to non playoff teams (11-5 NE, 9-7 NYJ 8-8 Hou)
The only reason Stevie Wonder sees the 09 Jets as better than the 08 Dolphins is because he is blind.
SD beat multiple playoff bound teams, the '09 jets sched wasn't a duanting one but it was much more difficutl than the 2008 phins who beat one playoff bound team that was 8-8.
11-5 NE was 11-5 b/c of the weak sched, 9-7 NYJ won 9 games b/c of the weak sched. You beat nobody that year and we NE and won TWO road playoff games.
'08 Miami was humiliated at home in postseason, '09 NYJ won two road playoff games and held a lead in the 2nd half of the title game. '09 NYJ was better than '08 Miami despite winning 2 less reg season games.
The New Guy
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SD beat 11-5 Dal, 11-5 Philly 10-6 Cincy. All of those teams are 1 and done if not for Dal and Philly playing each other in round 1. Outside of those 3 overrated teams, SD did not win a single game against a team with a winning record.
The Jets lost 6 games against teams that did not make the playoffs. That is all you need to know to tell you that the 09 Jets were not as good as the 08 Dolphins.
Here we go again applying your rules only when they benefit your argument. You laud 09 Cincy for beating 9-7 Pitt and 9-7 Bal, but look at Pitt and Bal Schedule that year. Outside there own div, the only teams on Pitt schedule with a winning record were GB, SD, and Minny.
Outside of the div 08 NE had to play the Cards (NFC Champs), Pitt (Super Bowl winner), Indy, and SD.
I guess were just going to have to agree to disagree on this. I think people are sick of this thread, so I am going to let it go.
So outside of THREE playoff teams they didn't beat anyone yet you are crowing about Miami beating ONE playoff team who was 8-8?:lol2:
'09 Jets won 2 road playoff games, played for right to represent AFC in the Super Bowl
'08 dolphins humiliated at home in WC.
Debate over.
The '08 Cardinals came to the EC 3 times to play NYJ, Philly and NE. They lost by a combined scored of 151-62, an average of 50-21.
The Steelers & Chargers embarrassed the Pats and they lost to Indy. It's nice that they played these teams but how about winning some of those games?
I give you the fact, and you look at it as homerism, really? Please tell me what I wrote that is false.....yea, I think the homerism belongs to Ruby2....anong with a bit of pathetic, being on a rivals message board.
Wow dlockz, you seem to be more sensitive when something is said about the Jets or Patriots then when a rival says something about the Dolphins. When the Dolphins win multiple games in a row, are you extremely upset? I fear if Miami reaches the playoffs or worse, the superbowl, you may become suicidal.
The New Guy
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No, you are crowing over Cincy beating 9-7 Pitt (Who didn't make the playoffs) and claiming that the only reason they did not was because of Cincy beating them. You refuse to see that Pitt also lost to teams like 7-9 CHi, 4-12 KC, 5-11 Oak, and 5-11 Cle. You also refuse to see that Cincy lost to non playoff teams like 9-7 Hou, 8-8 Den, and 5-11 Oak. The only non playoff teams the 08 Dolphins lost against were 9-7 NYJ, 11-5 NE, and 9-7 Hou. Yes, the 08 Dolphins had some bad teams on the schedule, but they won those games. The same can not be said about the 09 Jets who lost to 6 non playoff teams.
You can keep crowing about the Jets 2 road playoff wins, but you fail to see them for what they really were. There is no doubt in my mind that the 08 Dolphins could have done the same thing. Cincy was not tough to beat, and the Jets benefited from an overrated SD team missing 2 easy field goals.
So that terrible non playoff 9-7 Jets team (That you give no credit for the Dolphins beating) put a whooping on the eventual NFC champs? Hmm.
Does it really make much difference if you beat the bad teams and lose to the good teams or if you beat the good teams but lose to the bad teams? If you beat the good teams, but lose to the bad teams, you are still not very good. The 7-9 Dolphins beat GB, Pitt (if it were not for a blown call) and NYJ, but they lost to the bad teams to end up 7-9. You are trying to argue that 9-7 Pitt was better than the 11-5 pats, and it just does not wash. NE lost 5 games to the 9-7 NYJ, 11-5 Mia, 12-4 Colts, 8-8 SD, and the 12-4 super bowl champs. A lot of good teams lost to those opponents as well.
09 Pitt beating GB and an overated SD team does not mean much when they lose to 7-9 CHi, 4-12 KC, 5-11 Oak, and 5-11 Cle.
Any road playoff win is something to crow about, it's not easy to win them. Cincy was not a great team but they won arguably the toughest div in the league that year and deserve respect for it.
It's great that Pitt lost some bad games, it happens sometimes. They were still 9-7 and would have been 10-6 or 11-5 if not for cincy. How come it is ok to talk about the year before and year after w/ Cincy and not w/ Pitt? The year before they won the SB, the year after they won the AFC title.
The only truly bad team we lost to in 2009 was Buffalo and that was b/c a rookie QB threw 5 INTs and the game still went to OT.
The '08 dolphins wouldn't have beaten the '09 Bengals on the road. We followed that up by beating the hottest team in the league and the team many considered the favorite heading into the postseason.
Arizona was awful on the road especially on the EC.Ari at home was a different astory, you should remember as they throttled the eventual AFC East champs that year.
9-7 is different than 7-9? Pitt was a game out of the playoffs, Miami would have needed FOUR more wins to make the playoffs last year.
The bottom line is we made the title game, you got humiliated in the WC round. You can make all the excuses you want but the facts won't change.
THE 08 fins would have so beaten the 09 Bengals, who hadn't beaten a .500 team in 6 weeks anywhere, home or on the road. The Fins carried the toughest division where 3 teams were over .500 that year.. they were on a 5 game winning streak, including beating SF who won all of their last 5 games excepting the Fins. On the other hand, a team which lost 6 out of 7 games, from games 2-14 beat teams they faced with a sub .300 record at the time they played them, couldn't even hold serve when it counted on their own court against the Falcons in a division where there was only one legitimate .500 team in 09, definitely wouldn't have beaten the 09 Ravens. If Pennington was befuddled, how dazed and confused would Tacoboy have ended up being? Baltimore closed out the season 9-2 outscoring those opponents by about 140pts. They'd have pulverized the Jests.. even more so than Peyton Manning's 24- zip humiliation over the last 31 playoff minutes in 09. And that's as close to a sure bet as there is.
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The New Guy
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Just like the 08 Jets would have been 10-6, or the 08 NE would have been 12-4 had the Dolphins not beat them right? You can't make excuses for 1 team just because the Jets faced them in the playoffs and you want them to appear better than they really were.
We can look at the year before and the year after for Pitt. It proves that they are a good team, that had a bad year. Pitt always has a bad year after a SP win. This is the 3rd straight time that they have missed the playoffs after a Super Bowl win. looking at Cincy shows the same thing. (That they were a bad team, that had a good year.)
Sometimes the facts don't reflect reality. Just ask Detroit Tigers pitcher Armando Galarraga. You won't find that he pitched a perfect game in the facts, but in reality, he did.
We've debated this to the bone, and I feel like we are just repeating the same stuff over and over again. You can look at the Jets 09 run however you like. I will never see it the way you do. I am ready for the season to start so we can look forward to debating some more about the Dolphins and the Jets. :up:
The toughest division:lol2: The only reason 3 teams were over .500 was b/c the scheds were so weak. We saw waht happend when they played a touhg team in the WC round.
I have never seen a person make more excuses than you.
I have never seen a person make more excuses than you.
We should have been 12-4 or 13-3 if we hadn't lost to teams like Oakland, SF, Seattle, ...
I don't want Cincy to appear better than they were, I know they were a good team. yes they were down the list of playoff teams w/ such teams like Miami '08 and KC '10 but they still were a div champ in a top division.
What does 1980 have to do w/ today's Steelers?
It's all in fun, I don't ever take anything personal and you shouldn't either. Good luck.
So by just making the SuperBowl you would call that season a success? Why not just come out and say that winning the SuperBowl is a success and everything else is a failure. That makes a lot more sense than just making the SB. Ask the Bills about their 4 "success" seasons by your logic.
Frankly, I'd take deep post season runs even if it doesn't result in the Lombardi. That's hell of a lot more exciting as a fan than the pieces of crap performances our teams have put together. Last time we won a playoff game I was in college broke as a joke, now I own a home and have kids. I'm hoping they win a damn playoff game before I make it to the retirement home.
