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Defensive MVP debate

Breed

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Pass defended: A pass defended results in a loss of down without any yards gained. While a pass defended isn't as great as a tackle for loss/sack/FF/INT, it is usually more significant than a tackle. A pass defended is equal to a tackle for no gain; most tackles however are past the line of scrimmage. IMO, a pass defended can be equated to 2 or 3 tackles.

Tackle: Most tackles occur several yards past the line of scrimmage; a tackle is the most common statistic on the defensive side of the ball.

Defensive TD>INT>FF>sack>tackle for loss>pass defended>tackle

Jason Taylor vs. Julius Peppers

Jason Taylor: 50 total tackles, 11.5 sacks, 4.5 tackles for loss, 8 forced fumbles, 2 interceptions (71 yards returned), 10 passes defended, 2 defensive touchdowns.

Julius Peppers: 54 total tackles, 11 sacks, 5.5 tackles for loss, 3 forced fumbles, 0 interceptions, 6 passes defended, 0 defensive touchdowns.

Statistical advantages (Taylor): .5 sack, 5 forced fumbles, 2 interceptions (71 yards returned), 4 passes defended and 2 defensive touchdowns.

Statistical advantages (Peppers): 4 total tackles and 1 tackle for loss

4 total tackles, 1 tackle for loss<.5 sack, 5 forced fumbles, 4 passes defended, 2 interceptions and 2 defensive touchdowns.

The 4 extra passes defended make up for the 4 fewer total tackles and 1 tackle for loss, the rest is just the icing on the cake. Edge: Jason Taylor by a landslide

Jason Taylor vs. Adalius Thomas

Jason Taylor: 50 total tackles, 11.5 sacks, 4.5 tackles for loss, 8 forced fumbles, 2 interceptions (71 yards returned), 10 passes defended, 2 defensive touchdowns.

Adalius Thomas: 67 total tackles, 10 sacks, 3 tackles for loss, 0 forced fumbles, 1 interception (7 yards returned), 4 passes defended, 1 defensive touchdown.

Statistical advantages (Taylor): 1.5 sacks, 1.5 tackles for loss, 8 forced fumbles, 1 interceptions (64 yards returned), 6 passes defended and 1 defensive touchdown.

Statistical advantages (Thomas): 17 total tackles

1.5 sacks, 1.5 tackles for loss, 8 forced fumbles, 1 interception (64 more yards returned), 6 passes defended and 1 defensive touchdown>17 total tackles. Again, this isn't even close. Taylor by a landslide

Jason Taylor vs. Bart Scott

Jason Taylor: 50 total tackles, 11.5 sacks, 4.5 tackles for loss, 8 forced fumbles, 2 interceptions (71 yards returned), 10 passes defended, 2 defensive touchdowns.

Bart Scott: 89 total tackles, 8.5 sacks, 3.5 tackles for loss, 0 forced fumbles, 2 interceptions (31 yards returned), 8 passes defended, 0 defensive touchdowns.

Statistical advantages (Taylor): 3 sacks, 1 tackle for loss, 8 forced fumbles, 40 yards returned (off interceptions), 2 passes defended and 2 defensive touchdowns.

Statistical advantages (Scott): 39 total tackles

The 2 extra defensive touchdowns more than make up for the extra 39 total tackles, this one isn't even close. Jason Taylor again wins by a landslide.

Jason Taylor vs. Brian Urlacher

As great as Urlacher has been, has he been the best linebacker in the NFL? Urlacher is 6th in the NFL in total tackles, 12 tackles behind the NFL leader (DeMeco Ryans).

Here's how Urlacher compares to some of the other leading tacklers (among linebackers) in the NFL this year:

DeMeco Ryans: 128 total tackles, 3.5 sacks, 6.5 tackles for loss, 1 forced fumble, I interception (16 yards returned), 6 passes defended, 0 defensive touchdowns.

Zach Thomas: 123 total tackles, 3 sacks, 1.5 tackles for loss, 0 forced fumbles, 1 interception (-4 returned yards), 7 passes defended, 0 defensive touchdowns.

London Fletcher: 121 total tackles, 2 sacks, 3.5 tackles for loss, 0 forced fumbles, 3 interceptions (30 returned yards), 12 passes defended, 2 defensive touchdowns.

Donnie Edwards: 118 total tackles, 1 sack, 0 tackles for loss, 1 forced fumble, 2 interceptions (3 returned yards), 4 passes defended, 0 defensive touchdowns.

Keith Bulluck: 118 total tackles, 1.5 sacks, 1 tackle for loss, 2 forced fumbles, 1 interception (0 yards returned), 8 passes defended, 0 defensive touchdowns.

Fletcher and Ryans stand out in that group.

Statistical advantages (Ryans): 7 tackles, 1.5 sacks, 3 tackles for loss and 1 forced fumble.

Statistical advantages (Fletcher): 2 interceptions (14 more yards returned), 6 passes defended and 2 defensive touchdowns.

The 2 interceptions pretty much make up for the statistical advantages Ryans had over Fletcher; throw in the 6 extra passes defended and the 2 defensive touchdowns and the edge goes to Fletcher.

Given that Buffalo is 19th in total defense and 14th in scoring defense, the edge should automatically go to Urlacher. But let's see how they match up statistically.

Brian Urlacher: 116 total tackles, 0 sacks, 9 tackles for loss, 1 forced fumble, 3 interceptions (38 yards returned), 7 passes defended, 0 defensive touchdowns.

London Fletcher: 121 total tackles, 2 sacks, 3.5 tackles for loss, 0 forced fumbles, 3 interceptions (30 returned yards), 12 passes defended, 2 defensive touchdowns.

Statistical advantages (Urlacher): 5.5 tackles for loss, 1 forced fumble, 8 more yards returned on interceptions.

Statistical advantages (Fletcher): 5 total tackles, 2 sacks, 5 passes defended and 2 defensive touchdowns. Sacks often result in a larger loss of yardage than the average 'tackle for loss'; statistically the two are very close. I'd give the slight edge to Fletcher, but Buffalo's defense isn't close to what Chicago's is. Chicago has an elite defense, Buffalo has an average defense.

Jason Taylor: 50 total tackles, 11.5 sacks, 4.5 tackles for loss, 8 forced fumbles, 2 interceptions (71 yards returned), 10 passes defended and 2 defensive touchdowns.

Brian Urlacher: 116 total tackles, 0 sacks, 9 tackles for loss, 1 forced fumble, 3 interceptions (38 yards returned), 7 passes defended and 0 defensive touchdowns.

Statistical advantages (Taylor): 11.5 sacks, 7 forced fumbles, 33 yards returned, 3 passes defended and 2 defensive touchdowns.

Statistical advantages (Urlacher): 66 total tackles and 4.5 tackles for loss and 1 interception.

As a middle linebacker, Urlacher should have far more tackles. The 11.5 sacks and 7 forced fumbles more than make up for the 66 extra tackles, everything else is an added bonus. The 2 defensive touchdowns and 3 passes defended is a huge bonus. Statistically, Taylor has a big advantage.

Take away Jason Taylor from the Dolphins and do the same for the Bears with Brian Urlacher; I don't think anyone would argue the Bears have a lot more talent on defense. Even without Urlacher, the Bears have one of the most talented defenses in the NFL. Without Taylor, the Dolphins have an average at best defense.

Miami is 2nd in total defense, Chicago is 3rd. Miami has given up 3,616 yards, Chicago has given up 3,649 yards. Miami is 5th in scoring defense, Chicago is 2nd in scoring defense. Miami is giving up 17.1 points per game, Chicago is giving up 13.6 points per game. There's no doubt that Chicago has the better defense; it's just amazing Miami is as close as they are. The Dolphins would be a 2-4 win team without Taylor. The Bears would still be a Playoff team without Urlacher (IMO).

Jason Taylor vs. Shawne Merriman

Jason Taylor: 50 total tackles, 11.5 sacks, 4.5 tackles for loss, 8 forced fumbles, 2 interceptions (71 yards returned), 10 passes defended and 2 defensive touchdowns.

Shawne Merriman: 43 total tackles, 12.5 sacks, 3 tackles for loss, 4 forced fumbles, 1 interception (10 yards returned), 5 passes defended and 0 defensive touchdowns.

Statistical advantages (Taylor): 7 total tackles, 1.5 tackles for loss, 4 forced fumbles, 1 interceptions (61 yards returned), 5 passes defended, 2 defensive touchdowns.

Statistical advantages (Merriman): 1 sack

The argument for Merriman is that he's missed 4 games. Merriman can blame himself for that; he got banned 4 games for cheating (steroids). Steroids are a performance enhancing drug. I don't see how Merriman can even be considered for the award: 1. He cheated 2. Even if he plays the 3 remaining games, he's already missed atleast 25% of the season. You can say "think of the stats he would've put up if he played the 4 games he missed due to suspension"; but the fact of the matter is.......he did miss the 4 games. Merriman deserved the suspension and it was his own doing. The award should be based on performance, and right now Taylor has a huge statistical advantage. We don't know how the overall productin Merriman would've had if he played the entire season; either way.......his stats would've been inflated because of the steroids he tested positive for. Merriman shouldn't receive any votes, he should be disqualified.

As for a defensive back competing for the award: There's a reason why many people say "it all starts up front". Put consistant pressure on any QB, and he won't look good. Consistant quarterback hurries can be more valuable than an actual sack; because they create turnovers. That's not to say that a single QB hurry is equivalent to a single QB sack. In the case of Jason Taylor, not only has he indircetly caused turnovers by putting pressure on the QB, but he's also goten his share of turnovers that were directly because of him.

Unless there's a shutdown corner out there that has 10 or more turnovers and 2 defensive touchdowns, there isn't a Defensive MVP in the secondary. How many turnovers has Taylor caused by himself? He's forced 8 fumbles and has 2 interceptions; most of those fumbles were recovered by the Dolphins. Taylor also has 2 defensive toucdowns.

The name I've heard most is Champ Bailey. Bailey may be the most respected defensive back in the game; he's also regarded as the best 'cover corner' in the game.

Jason Taylor vs. Champ Bailey

Jason Taylor: 50 total tackles, 11.5 sacks, 4.5 tackles for loss, 8 forced fumbles, 2 interceptions (71 yards returned), 10 passes defended and 2 defensive touchdowns.

Champ Bailey: 71 total tackles, 0 sacks, 2 tackles for loss, 0 forced fumbles, 6 interceptions (35 yards returned), 17 passes defended and 0 defensive touchdowns.

Statistical advantages (Taylor): 11.5 sacks, 2.5 tackles for loss, 8 forced fumbles, 36 yards returned and 2 defensive touchdowns.

Statistical advantages: (Bailey): 21 total tackles, 4 interceptions and 7 passes defended.

I"m not so sure the 21 extra tackles Bailey has is a good thing, considering he's a cornerback. But even if you do treat it as a positive, Taylor has created more turnovers by himself than Bailey. It's very rare for a defensive lineman (or a linebacker for that matter) to force more turnovers than a defensive back. Taylor also has 36 more yards returned off of interceptions; another rare feat. More turnovers, more yardage off of turnovers, 11.5 more sacks, 2.5 more tackles for loss and 2 more defensive touchdows......the edge goes to Taylor.

Jason Taylor vs. Rashean Mathis

Rashean Mathis isn't as big of a name as Champ Bailey is, but he is having a better season (IMO).

Rashean Mathis: 52 total tackles, 0 sacks, 1 tackle for loss, 0 forced fumbles, 7 interceptions (146 yards returned) and 19 passes defended.

Jason Taylor: 50 total tackles, 11.5 sacks, 4.5 tackles for loss, 8 forced fumbles, 2 interceptions (71 yards returned), 10 passes defended and 2 defensive touchdowns.

Statistical advantages (Taylor): 11.5 sacks, 3.5 tackles for loss, 8 forced fumbles and 2 defensive touchdowns.

Statistical advantages (Mathis): 2 total tackles, 5 interceptions (75 yards returned) and 9 passes defended.

As a cornerback, Mathis should have interceptions (and return yardage) and more passes defended.

Again, this is an incredible year......but it doesn't top the year Taylor is having. Taylor has created more turnovers despite being a defensive lineman; Taylor also has 2 more defensive touchdowns. The Jaguars would still have a very good defense without Mathis, the Dolphins would not.

I'd have to look it up, but I'm pretty sure that the Dolphins have recovered 6 or 7 of the 8 forced fumbles that Taylor has created. So Taylor has created 8 or 9 turnovers directly; compared to the 7 turnovers Mathis has created. This doesn't even count the turnovers Taylor has caused indirectly by QB hurries.

Taylor should be the clear cut Defensive MVP....
 
Good post, I think it depends on if Miami gets some press these last few games other than this crap with NE.
 
Great work Breed.

Peppers, A. Thomas (who I hope we sign this off season), Champ & Urlacher are all playmakers in their own right.

JT is, has always been a difference maker. :dolphins:
 
great info, but fletcher has 2 defensive TDs. one INT TD and one fumble return for a TD.

yall should remember the fumble return it was on the first possession of the opening drive of the opening game vs the pats. Brady got killed by TKO, fumbled, recoved by Fletcher, and returned for a TD.

his stat page is misleading since that stat is under fumble recoveries.
 
In my opinion, only Jason Taylor and Brian Urlacher have the ability to really take over and dominate a game.

Urlacher almost singlehandedly brought the Bears back against Arizona, which might be the best defensive performance of the entire year.

Taylor can do similar things, which is special considering the double teams he routinely draws. It should be a close vote between the two of them for defense MVP

PS. I had no idea Ryans was doing that well. It's really incredible how far along he's come in such a short amount of time
 
ch19079 said:
great info, but fletcher has 2 defensive TDs. one INT TD and one fumble return for a TD.

yall should remember the fumble return it was on the first possession of the opening drive of the opening game vs the pats. Brady got killed by TKO, fumbled, recoved by Fletcher, and returned for a TD.

his stat page is misleading since that stat is under fumble recoveries.

I forgot about that......consider it fixed.
 
By the numbers, JT is on pace to have a better year this year, than any Defensive lineman since at least 2003 (last year NFL.com has full stats for DL). His season is also on pace to best Michael Strahan's Defensive POY season and his 22.5 sacks.

Also, JT's 13-game numbers are better than all other D-Lineman's 16-game season since '03 except for Strahan in '03, Peppers in '04 and himself in '05. In each of those seasons, those listed were the only players to have better 16-game numbers than JT has through 13 this year.....and as I mentioned, he's on pace to shatter all of those.
 
Peppers lost it last week, they needed that game against a banged up Giant team, and he had no impact plays.
 
from msn.foxsports.com

What’d Patriots coach Bill Belichick think of the performance? “He's the best player we've played against all year.”
Being that he's played Chicago and Urlacher and Denver and Champ Bailey.....that sounds like a nice endorsement for Defensive Player of the Year.
 
Adelius Thomas does have one touchdown...you forgot to mention that....JT is clearly Defensive player of the year in my eyes.
 
who votes for this, fans, coaches, players I guess...
 
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