Difficulty transitioning to 4-3 Defense? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Difficulty transitioning to 4-3 Defense?

The thing is, Odrick is not a natural 4-3 end and he's not the solution there. He's a defensive tackle. Whether it's Vernon or someone else, the Dolphins need a true pass rusher opposite Wake and Odrick isn't that guy.
 
They didn't give Soliai all that money to play 2 downs only.

I think they will rotate the rookie with Odrick or mcDaniels
 
Cam Wake has played a lot of downs as a down lineman for us when we were in the Dime or Nickel and I'm sure the teams we played did run a few times out of those formations.

Ad why would you say that they pass 90% of the time in the CFL when everyone knows that is not true.
They may have run a few times but the defense alignment we sent in with Wake at DE was designed to rush the passer, they were intended to be used on obvious passing downs. I'm sure when teams lined up against us in 3rd and long they were intending to sack the QB two years ago with Henning calling the plays...not their fault Henning was stupid to call play action or a delayed handoff on 3rd and 6+ yards.

As for passing 90%, you know as well as everyone else that they pass more often than run in the CFL, they only get 3 downs to get a first. It's was an exaggeration but they still pass 63 - 68% of the time, a much higher percentage than the NFL. We also know that the CFLs players are no match for NFL players.

This is my concern, you don't have to agree with me and I'm not trying to say Wake will be a failure. I think he's going to struggle and having to go against a LT all game, trying to shed blocks will take a lot out of him and could effect him as a pass rusher as he wears down over the course of the game/season. I'm interested in seeing how it plays out.
 
The "transition" won't be much of an issue.

-Jared Odrick played as a gap penetrating Under Tackle in a 4-3 at Penn State
-Randy Starks played similarly in Tennessee before coming to Miami
-Cameron Wake is a glorified defensive end by trade anyway and that's how he makes his name
-There won't be a big difference in what Paul Soliai is asked to do
-Transition from the position Burnett's played to Will backer is pretty easy
-Koa Misi is probably best suited to be a Sam in a 4-3 anyway
-The only "transition" issue would be Dansby at Mike because he's not played it before in a 4-3

The problem won't be transition. The problem is the roster. I keep saying this, the Dolphins don't have the defensive ends to run this scheme. They need to work on that in the next draft or free agency. It's imperative. They have a whole mess defensive tackles (Soliai, Starks, Odrick, McDaniel, Randle, Baker). That's fine. But they have THREE true defensive end types, all three of whom are under-sized. Cam Wake is 6'3" and 250 lbs, Olivier Vernon is 6'2" and 261 lbs, and Jamaal Westerman is 6'2" and 257 lbs, runs a 4.78. Jacquies Smith, Derrick Shelby and Jarrell Root are all undrafted free agent rookies. By rights none of them should even make the team.

And what sucks is that only in Cameron Wake's case do you find consistent pass rush from those defensive ends. Westerman certainly never proved a good pass rusher in New York. He looked pretty good as an early down run protector as an outside linebacker...sort of a poor man's Jarret Johnson. No coincidence the Jets replaced him with the real Jarret Johnson this off season.

The key to all this is Olivier Vernon. I don't know how the Dolphins watched him play for the Hurricanes and came to think of him as a 2012 nickel pass rusher. That just isn't how I'd see him. My *hope* would have been that he would have the *potential* to grow into that role, eventually. He is only 21 years old and he's pretty athletic, after all. But that's not what he is right now. Right now he's a hellishly strong run defender that can reduce on pass rushing downs and isolate against a guard in pass rush, use his strong hands to prevent the guard from bullying him with strength, and then use his significant speed advantage to blow by him and consistently get after the passer. This is how I hoped Miami would use him, until he continues to develop as an outside rusher. But to toss him right in as a nickel edge rusher in 2012...that's a leap of faith. Maybe they're right. Maybe they're that confident in their ability to coach him during training camp, to coax more consistent ability out of him.

But it's a leap to me, and it's something that will in my opinion drag down TWO positions in the nickel defense. I say that because I really do believe Vernon could've been excellent as a sort of Wallace Gilberry/Pernell McPhee type pass rusher over the guard on passing downs, but instead we're going to have Jared Odrick do that and I doubt he'll be more effective.

You've gotta look toward the Giants in my opinion if you want to see how to make this defense work best. They have a ton of players with a certain prototype, that being 6'4" to 6'5" players that range around the 265-275 area with 4.70 speed. Justin Tuck, Jason Pierre-Paul, Osi Umenyiora and Mathias Kiwanuka all fit that mold. Miami doesn't really have a single player in that mold.

Already in the 2013 NFL Draft I'm pegging Miami to grab another TRUE pass rusher/defensive end, that fits that Giants mold. I'm looking at 6'4" and 273 lbs Bjoern Werner of Florida State, who is to me right now the best defensive end prospect that could enter the 2013 NFL Draft. Miami could have the opportunity to get him though even if they don't have a high pick, because I'm not sure yet whether the rest of the NFL will agree with me that he's the best. We'll see. Wouldn't be the 1st or 50th time I've been hot on a guy that nobody seems to like and then soon enough everyone adores him too. I am also looking at 6'6" and 278 lbs William Gholston of Michigan State. I don't have him exceptionally high right now, but he has the ability to get up there and then some. If there's a player that I would be willing to make an exception for on the size standard, it's James Gayle of Virginia Tech. He's not that far off at 6032 and 256 lbs, and he is just an absolute joy to watch play the game of football. Right now he is my second best defensive end that could enter the 2013 NFL Draft, behind only Werner.

I know you're going to hear about Barkevious Mingo, maybe Jarvis Jones. I like them. No doubt about it. But I'm not interested. We just signed Cameron Wake to a long term deal. This is not the kind of 4-3 the Colts ran all those years with Robert Mathis and Dwight Freeney. We have our Cam Wake. Time to get something a little different. Bjoern Werner would be perfect.
 
The thing is, Odrick is not a natural 4-3 end and he's not the solution there. He's a defensive tackle. Whether it's Vernon or someone else, the Dolphins need a true pass rusher opposite Wake and Odrick isn't that guy.

Chances are the base 4-3 will be (Wake, Starks, Soliai, Odrick)

Pass Rush (Downs) front 4 will be (Wake, Starks, Odrick, Vernon) if Vernon proves even a half decent pass rusher, it will force teams to lay off double teaming Wake, HUGE!
 
Chances are the base 4-3 will be (Wake, Starks, Soliai, Odrick)

Pass Rush (Downs) front 4 will be (Wake, Starks, Odrick, Vernon) if Vernon proves even a half decent pass rusher, it will force teams to lay off double teaming Wake, HUGE!

Oh I agree, Odrick is the most logical choice to start at end in 2012. But he's not the long-term answer there because he's a DT.
 
While I know Root, Shelby and Smith have no right to make the team, I actually think one of them could. The most logical choice of the three would be Smith. Smith, Shelby, and the kid from Pitt were all deemed draftable. All the undrafted kids and drafted kids were selected to fit the 4-3. I expect another de or a linebacker next year in a higher round.
 
While I know Root, Shelby and Smith have no right to make the team, I actually think one of them could. The most logical choice of the three would be Smith. Smith, Shelby, and the kid from Pitt were all deemed draftable. All the undrafted kids and drafted kids were selected to fit the 4-3. I expect another de or a linebacker next year in a higher round.

I don't think it's unreasonable to think Shelby and/or Smith could make the team. In fact, I'd be shocked if one did not. We simply do not have the DE depth for them ALL to get cut.
 
Plenty of non-rosterable players make teams because of shortages of talent. That doesn't mean they're players to cite as assets, though...
 
i think it will be a smooth transition. the only one i kinda of worry about is dansby playing mike, thats a different ball game in a 4-3
 
wake will be no different than what JT was when he was End in the 4-3, over pursue the rush sometime and let the RB run underneath him. you never heard me complain about JT's play and you want hear me complaining about wakes play even though you will see a fair share of off guard rushes that go under him, hopefully dansby will be there to pick up the grabage. that or stark and solai turn out to be our timbo's and gardener at DT and we bust the inside 1-3 gap runs in the mouth before they have time to process
 
Back
Top Bottom