Digital's take on our draft | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Digital's take on our draft

Digital

Starter
Club Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
11,484
Reaction score
14,704
Everyone has an opinion on our draft, here is mine. I will cover talent, value and team improvement in my assessment. As always, your mileage may vary (ymmv).

Pre-Draft Assessment:
Since last season we have changed a lot. Coaches, players, and even front office personnel. Our approaches changed on offense and defense. Free Agency created almost as many holes as it filled. So, this assessment begins the day of the draft, not before. At the time of the draft, we were building a new football team with two very different parts, a varied approach offense under the control of Head Coach Gase, and an aggressive defense under the control of master DB teacher Defensive Coordinator Vance Joseph. Our new offense stressed more TE's catching the ball downfield and RB's running the ball more often. This means our massive holes at OG would be on display early and often, as well as our general lack of physicality at RT (James) and OC (Pouncey). Our new defense required bigger DE's (e.g. Mario Williams) and much bigger CB's (e.g. Byron Maxwell). Our TE's could use another threat and our LB corps could use 2 new starters. Getting Quidditch (my nickname for Isa Abdul-Quddus) at S, Byron Maxwell at CB, Kiko Alonso at MLB, Mario Williams at DE were adjustments limiting the holes on defense. The holes at RG, LG, and backup LT remained prominent. The additions of Kraig Urbik at OG and Jermon Bushrod at OT provided depth, not starters. We still had massive holes on offense at LG and RG and on defense at CB. Those three positions I classified as needs. A committee RB and insurance WR I did not classify as needs.

Pick Management:
To the extent we traded up to leapfrog other teams and get our guys, that helped us land quality talent. But the prices were not always cheap. One of my biggest gripes with this draft is that we poured a LOT of resources into getting the guys we wanted ... and in some cases, maybe too many resources.

Talent:
I think we ended up with a lot of scheme fit talent. This is the draft's highest achievement. But, when you are moving around the draft board like we did aggressively pursuing your guys ... you expect to draft talent where it provides value, and often we did not.

Value:
Our players are good ... but I do not think the NFL valued the resources we spent to get them. This is a low mark.

Team Improvement:
If Talent is the measure of BPA, then Team Improvement is the measure of need. IMHO, we really dropped the ball a bit on need. If BPA tells you to draft a kicker 7 times in the draft ... you are foolish to do it. We had some of that going on in this draft.

Laremy Tunsil:
Talent is off the charts for the #13 pick. Value is tempered only by his issues with injuries, possible drug use suspensions and most importantly a long history of poor decision making. Our staff needs to take some advice from the Dallas Cowboys and ensure that this kid makes the right decisions or else the value falls through the floor. As far as team improvement goes, this is a good move ... but Myles Jack or William Jackson might have been better for team improvement. Brandon Albert is our best OL. Yes, him getting injured every year is a major reason why our OL goes from terrible to putrid, but he would probably be the 4th OL starter I'd replace, not the 1st. It was the right move to take the talent in Tunsil ... but it is not the slam dunk we like to think it was, and it is not without risk. Regardless, we need to factor in the cost of adjusting the rest of the draft for taking a LT in round 1.

Xavien Howard:
Let me start by saying I love this kid. He is young and was highly effective in college, while also having all the tools. He may not be the prospect that Eli Apple and William Jackson are, but for Vance Joseph's press scheme he is clearly the 3rd best CB option and he's not that far behind those guys. It's obvious why Joseph wanted this kid. Talent is excellent for where he was drafted. Value would be great if not for giving up the picks to leapfrog Chicago. That was only necessary as we deviated from the plan of drafting a CB in round 1 and taking BPA in round 2. By taking BPA in round 1, we exacerbated our need for a starting CB in round 2, thus requiring the wasted value for the trade up. This was our best Team Improvement choice of the night as it was the only pick that actually filled a huge need.

Kenyan Drake:
This one gets a lot of mixed opinions. Personally, I really do not like this year's RB crop. Outside of Elliott, I simply do not see great RB's. Sure, there are decent RB's to be had everywhere, and we probably got one of those ... but I completely understand why we went so hard after all those veteran RB's. Our biggest hole at RB is in pass protection. Typically, rookies are poor at pass pro. I don't see Drake as being the answer here. Our RB position begins with Jay Ajayi, whom I love. He is a poor man's beastmode. Quicks, vision, power, jump-cut in the hole to help our OL, ability to follow his blocks downfield, dead-leg, stiff-arm, good pad level, and general elusiveness consistently gets him more yardage after contact than any RB since Ricky Williams. Drake's value is in being that chess piece movable weapon with speed and hands for Gase to move around the formation and cause headaches for DC's preparing for us. That gimmicry should get us one of two big plays every couple of games. It also makes preparing for Gase's offense on a short week very difficult. I see first-game effectiveness in the division, and after that Drake being a really effective weapon against non-division teams. He provides health insurance for Ajayi and a change of pace ... but he doesn't solve the primary problem of pass protection ... so I'm a little mixed in my feelings on Drake. He is not Reggie Bush, but he seems somewhere between Bush and Lamar Miller in terms of what he can do. Not a bad pick, but not a true solution either. Talent, good, not great ... but mainly because it's a down year for RB's. Value, decent, but nothing special. Other RB's would have been available several rounds later. Team Improvement, minimal, he doesn't have good pass pro, but he provides a moveable chess piece freeing up Landry to play WR.

Leonte Caroo:
OK, first let me explain our front office's awesome philosophy here. We have recognized that Tannehill is a very accurate QB. So, we are building a WR corps that runs good routes and has great hands. Jarvis Landry is the mold, excellent hands and runs great routes. DeVante Parker has that fantastic length and awesome hands with enough speed to make plays deep. Tannehilll can put the ball in the right places and these guys make the plays. That is an awesome plan and I'm very happy that we have remade our WR corps in that mold. Kenny Stills is on the last year of his rookie contract. So, either he gets re-signed or replaced. If he plays well and fits in, he becomes expensive. If he doesn't adjust in year two, he probably doesn't get re-signed. Enter Leonte Caroo. This is another guy who reminds people of a young Anquan Boldin, physical, sorta fast, very good route runner, excellent hands, and he does a great job of not alerting the DB of an incoming ball. Caroo fits what we do perfectly. So there's a lot to like here. Talent, good, but he's not DeVante Parker so I'd say a good choice and addition, but not a gem. Value, we way overpaid for this pick. Two 3rds and a 4th???????? Horrible value for the draft slot, but somewhat mitigated by the fact he was a good value selection at that slot. Still, bad value unless he actually becomes an Anquan Boldin type receiver. Team Improvement, minimal, we had stills as our 3rd and Hagan as our 4th. If we wanted a guy like this, why not save the draft picks and re-sign Matthews? This pick looks very forced ... and it did not fill a true need.

Jakeem Grant:
Redundancy. Well this definitely is redundancy after a good WR pick in Caroo and an offensive chess piece/returner in Kenyan Drake. Buuuuuuuuuuuuut, this is round 6, so take any talent you can find at that point IMHO. Talent, good. Value, good. Team Improvement, mediocre because of redundancy, but he provides insurance to Drake's health and something different for Gase to scheme. Practice squad until needed possibly, but eventually this guy should see the field. Good pick.

Jordan Lucas:
This is a project. Nice guy, but not a good football player. High SPARQ guy, but this guy may not be good enough of a football player to develop under Vance Joseph. Practice squad for sure IMHO. Talent, low. Value, low. Team Improvement, none. I do not like this pick, but it is purely a flyer on physical ability.

Brandon Doughty:
There is a valid draft philosophy that suggests you always draft a QB, try to develop him, groom him as a backup, then spin him off for draft picks before he "graduates." Doughty has the tools to do that. I have no problem with the guy. But, I don't really see the benefit. Talent, mediocre. Value, poor, this guy probably could have been an UDFA and we could have easily gotten him. Talent Improvement, zero. He doesn't help our team, but he may eventually bring higher draft picks if developed.

Thomas Duarte:
This guy is somewhere between Dusten Keller and Jake Stoneburner. He is a rocked up WR like Keller, but without the athletic ability or speed. He is a very small move TE that can't block. Personally, I don't see this guy beating out Stoneburner, but at least I can see the appeal. As a TE he may be fast enough, but if teams put a DB on him, he probably disappears. Talent, mediocre. Value, mediocre. Team Improvement, low.

My problems with this draft is that we had a lot of good OG's we could have had ... should have had ... and utterly ignored for vanity picks. The 5th round alone had Christian Westerman, Spencer Drango and Joe Dahl who would all have been good additions and instant starters improving over Dallas Thomas, Kenny Turner and Jamil Douglas. We frittered away 3rd, 4th and 5th round draft picks this and next year just as trade up fodder. We traded down to get virtually no talent in rounds 6 and 7. We completely missed the boat on OG's. Tunsil is a LT ... and even if he does an OK job at LG, he is at best a one year stop-gap at LG. We still need to start our backup Kraig Urbik at RG and are only a snap away from the Dallas Thomas type players. IMHO, that's not good enough and simply poor decision making from our front office. If our run-based offense has problems opening holes ... we will all know why. If we don't fix our porous pass protection, we have only ourselves to blame. No matter how much you like Kenyan Drake, Leonte Caroo, Jakeem Grant, and the rest of the offensive players, our only real team improvement on offense was Tunsil.

Best Player Available works if you move up and down to get need players at positions of need. Taking a gift like Tunsil dropping to you is one thing, but trading a 3rd and 4th to get Caroo, when the position is not a need, simply not a great decision. Drafting Drake makes sense if you shore up your OL, and we didn't. We still didn't get a LB or DE, two positions we should be looking to upgrade. This draft brought in some talent, so I'm pleased. But consistent failure to address obvious needs like OG is not acceptable. Do we honestly still think Dallas Thomas is the answer?
 
I agree with most of that, but we did get 5 new defensive starters in FA and the draft- the team basically gave the draft to Gase to fix the offense, that gift a de facto sign of faith in the new coach to get the job done asap. Urbik, Bushrod, Tunsil and I think Anthony Steen there to solve the ongoing OG dilemma, if Dallas Thomas makes the team I'll consider Gase suspect, until then he gets the benefit of the doubt.

Defense restocked, offensive weapons/mismatch players restocked, would have been nice to get at least one LB and one OG, could have been easily done. Draft DT Javone Hargrave in the 3rd or Kentrell Brothers in 5th rd- or one of the good Guards sitting there- could have had a RB later in the draft. Would have loved to not to have trade up in the 2nd rd for Howard but I do like the player and we needed him, Gase must have been convinced that the Bears were targeting him, the fact that they traded down after we made the move speaks volumes. I'm pretty happy with the draft, but a bit too much trading up by Tannenbaum to fritter away picks, would have been oh so easy to pick up another LB and OG in the draft. Still, between FA and the draft we made a lot of progress, at least one Guard problem solved and next year we can attack OG and LB positions in draft and FA. Very aggressive draft philosophy to get alpha/mismatch players the FO wanted, great draft if the players pan out, but that's always the case. B+ draft, could have been more if Myles Jack move panned out and OG/LB addressed.
 
Everyone has an opinion on our draft, here is mine. I will cover talent, value and team improvement in my assessment. As always, your mileage may vary (ymmv).



Leonte Caroo:
OK, first let me explain our front office's awesome philosophy here. We have recognized that Tannehill is a very accurate QB. So, we are building a WR corps that runs good routes and has great hands. Jarvis Landry is the mold, excellent hands and runs great routes. DeVante Parker has that fantastic length and awesome hands with enough speed to make plays deep. Tannehilll can put the ball in the right places and these guys make the plays. That is an awesome plan and I'm very happy that we have remade our WR corps in that mold. Kenny Stills is on the last year of his rookie contract. So, either he gets re-signed or replaced. If he plays well and fits in, he becomes expensive. If he doesn't adjust in year two, he probably doesn't get re-signed. Enter Leonte Caroo. This is another guy who reminds people of a young Anquan Boldin, physical, sorta fast, very good route runner, excellent hands, and he does a great job of not alerting the DB of an incoming ball. Caroo fits what we do perfectly. So there's a lot to like here. Talent, good, but he's not DeVante Parker so I'd say a good choice and addition, but not a gem. Value, we way overpaid for this pick. Two 3rds and a 4th???????? Horrible value for the draft slot, but somewhat mitigated by the fact he was a good value selection at that slot. Still, bad value unless he actually becomes an Anquan Boldin type receiver. Team Improvement, minimal, we had stills as our 3rd and Hagan as our 4th. If we wanted a guy like this, why not save the draft picks and re-sign Matthews? This pick looks very forced ... and it did not fill a true need.


We traded a 3rd a 4th and a sixth to pick him. Since we got him in the third the real extra cost to draft him was a future fourth and a sixth round pick. Great evaluation by the way. Always appreciate your insights.
 
Do we honestly still think Dallas Thomas is the answer?

"Yes, Dallas Thomas is the answer.".... Said no one ever.
 
One point that hasn't been emphasized (at least from what I've read) is the point of getting both Drake and Jakeem Grant to make sure Landry never has to return a punt or kick-off. I see these picks to keep Landry healthy and not get beat up in Special Teams. That is worth a couple of picks to protect, in my opinion, top 3 talent and importance to the team. Drake does give us a change of pace back and because of his limited playing at Alabama, he should have much mileage and possible untapped potential. I am rooting for Jakeem Grant if for no other reason than because of his physical limitations. I'd love to see hidden behind the line getting quick shuffle passes and mis-direction plays to outrun the secondary.
 
Nice job, Digital. I think Lucas is better than you give him credit. If he wasn't moved to S in 2015, I expect that he would have been drafted on Day 2 or early on Day 3.
 
Carroo was supposedly the #2 WR on their board so, if they are correct in their evaluation, getting him in the late 3rd is excellent value. Also, WR2 was a need. Stills showed last year he wasn't the answer.
 
One thing people overlook with the Carroo pick is not only does he provide immediate service and insurance against Stills leaving but if Stills leaves, Miami may be able to recoup some of that compensation they gave up to acquire the third round pick through the compensatory pick process. This regime is thinking now and ahead.
 
Carroo was supposedly the #2 WR on their board so, if they are correct in their evaluation, getting him in the late 3rd is excellent value. Also, WR2 was a need. Stills showed last year he wasn't the answer.

I agree with most of the write up also Digital good effort as always.

I agree about Stills, we can't say we didnt really improve at the WR position until we see how Caroo perfoms on the filed. I think it is possible that we have and I still think it was somewhat of a need. We are one injury away from questions at WR. Think about the fact that Parker and Rishard both missed time last year - we need someone else unless Hazel blows up.

I already stated my feelings on Drake not really a fan of that pick - will see how it plays out - its important as you point not to just look at who was drafted but opportunity cost. I think we could have managed it a little better as others have pointed out.
 
I also disagree that WR was not a need. Less pressing need, sure.
 
Carroo was supposedly the #2 WR on their board so, if they are correct in their evaluation, getting him in the late 3rd is excellent value. Also, WR2 was a need. Stills showed last year he wasn't the answer.

Does anyone really believe that Caroo was the #2 rated WR on Miami's board? I know these types of stories always come out after each draft but I find it hard to believe Miami would have taken Caroo if a guy like Fuller, Doctson, Coleman was available at that pick. I like Caroo but Miami would be a fool if they wouldn't trade him if Houston called up offering William Fuller right now. I suspect Miami liked Caroo better than some other teams but I seriously doubt they had him as the 2nd best WR in the draft.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Does anyone really believe that Caroo was really the #2 rated WR on Miami's board? I know these types of stories always come out after each draft but I find it hard to believe Miami would have taken Caroo if a guy like Fuller, Doctson, Coleman was available at that pick. I like Caroo but Miami would be a fool if they wouldn't trade him if Houston called up offering William Fuller right now. I suspect Miami liked Caroo better than some other teams but I seriously doubt they had him as the 2nd best WR in the draft.

I don't think they are lying. At least one the the resident FH talent guru's said he was at the top of his WR big board as well before the draft. And the fact that the Fins traded back into the 3rd round to get him giving up so much says they valued him this highly. They were NEVER going to take a WR in the 1st or 2nd round, and clearly they wanted the best RB on their board at the top of the 3rd. He was too much for them to turn down by the time he slipped to the middle of the 3rd.
 
Everyone has an opinion on our draft, here is mine. I will cover talent, value and team improvement in my assessment. As always, your mileage may vary (ymmv).

Best Player Available works if you move up and down to get need players at positions of need. Taking a gift like Tunsil dropping to you is one thing, but trading a 3rd and 4th to get Caroo, when the position is not a need, simply not a great decision. Drafting Drake makes sense if you shore up your OL, and we didn't. We still didn't get a LB or DE, two positions we should be looking to upgrade. This draft brought in some talent, so I'm pleased. But consistent failure to address obvious needs like OG is not acceptable. Do we honestly still think Dallas Thomas is the answer?

Hope you're wrong about Caroo. You're not alone with your concerns, but I feel the front office did a good job explaining why they did what they did. They singled about specific players that had a specific profile, and got aggressive when they got close to them. That's how it's supposed to be done. Hopefully this infusion of "Alpha" players will improve the team in such a way that they can follow your idea of a draft next year. As for the redundancy in draft picks and undrafted free agents, it only makes sense if you're trying to shore up certain areas. It obviously looks like they want receiver depth and multiple options for kick and punt returns.
 
Does anyone really believe that Caroo was the #2 rated WR on Miami's board? I know these types of stories always come out after each draft but I find it hard to believe Miami would have taken Caroo if a guy like Fuller, Doctson, Coleman was available at that pick. I like Caroo but Miami would be a fool if they wouldn't trade him if Houston called up offering William Fuller right now. I suspect Miami liked Caroo better than some other teams but I seriously doubt they had him as the 2nd best WR in the draft.

Carroo matches our WR needs very well, sure hands, tough, productive, efficient, alpha type to mesh with Parker and Landry.
 
Back
Top Bottom