Do you guys remember Tom Brady's rookie year?

[InMyChambers]

He was getting killed...including a disastrous performance against the Dolphins.....Then something clicked in Charlie Weis's mind....He started calling max protect plays with 2 and three guys in the pattern and allowed Brady to complete "playground" type routes.......

That NE line absolutely sucked at that point and it slowly got better as they improved their passing game...

Are you listening Chris Foerester?

i just took a dump on a peetry dish. in 2 weeks i'm going to have somethin g as good as gold, just like Tom Brady. :)

 

[hwc]

Guys:

The Pats 2001 season should actually be the model for the Dolphins this year. The Pats had absolutely nothing on offense. Brady was a rookie. Terry Glenn was suspended. They had one veteran receiver (Troy Brown), a no-name David Patten, and some stiff named Charles Johnson at the other WR spot. TEs were Rod Rutledge and Jermaine Wiggins. They had a rookie LT (Matt Light) and a bunch of stiffs on the O-line and Antwoin "Pokey" Smith at running back.

Their entire offensive philosophy was to not lose games. They were mostly happy with a nice safe 3 and out as a solid offensive series. The defense was very opportunistic, forcing a lot of turnovers and scoring points. Tom Brady's contribution was protecting the football and leading some spectacular game-winning drives with the 2-minute offense, following 58 minutes of just trying to keep the game close. They nickle and dimed their way to the Super Bowl on the back of a great defense and superb game-planning.

It was in 2002, that Weis surprised everyone by coming out of the gate with the pass-happy, quick-release, short passing game. They blew out their first two opponents and the short passing attack worked OK for a while. However, defenses started loading up on the short passing game and the Pats didn't have a downfield passing game or a running attack to capitalize.

In 2003, with Brady in his third season as a starter and with some serious speed with young WR they had been drafting, Weis took the shackles off Brady and started throwing the ball downfield -- you might remember a game winning long-ball in overtime in Miami last fall. The deep ball served to loosen up defenses. But remember, Weis didn't turn Brady loose until his third season, following a LOT of off-season work on the deep passing game. We've seen this downfield passing game continue so far this year; in fact, we've seen very little of the dink 'n dunk screen passes in the first two games. It's been mostly Corey Dillon moving the chains on the ground, interspersed with passes 15 to 25 yards downfield. Brady leads the AFC in touchdown passes at the two-week mark, with 5 notches in his belt. I do expect to see the Pats dust off the dink n' dunk screen pass game at some point, probably against a blitz-happy, over-pursuing defense.

What Wanny needs to do is look at the Pats in 2001. He has a solid, opportunistic defense and an offense that can't punch its way out of a wet paper bag. For him to be calling lots of downfield passes with that O-line and Feeley's first start the other night was truly criminal. That's how you kill a young QB. Wanny should be playing pure field position football and the goal of every offensive series should be to avoid taking loses and turnovers, with a good series scratching and clawing to a first down or two. Punt the ball deep and play defense.

 

[InMyChambers]

by the way as long as we are talking about rookies i'm excited because we drafted vernon carey (next Jonathan Ogden) and Will Poole (next Champ Bailey.)

I mean as long as we are living in friggin' insane, i must be on PCP land, how about Wannestadt shaves his stache, adds 60lbs of gut and morphs into Bill Parcells twin?


c'mon people, get your head on straight. we SUCK SUCK SUCK.

 

[InMyChambers]

Guys:

The Pats 2001 season should actually be the model for the Dolphins this year. The Pats had absolutely nothing on offense. Brady was a rookie. Terry Glenn was suspended. They had one veteran receiver (Troy Brown), a no-name David Patten, and some stiff named Charles Johnson at the other WR spot. TEs were Rod Rutledge and Jermaine Wiggins. They had a rookie LT (Matt Light) and a bunch of stiffs on the O-line and Antwoin "Pokey" Smith at running back.

Their entire offensive philosophy was to not lose games. They were mostly happy with a nice safe 3 and out as a solid offensive series. The defense was very opportunistic, forcing a lot of turnovers and scoring points. Tom Brady's contribution was protecting the football and leading some spectacular game-winning drives with the 2-minute offense, following 58 minutes of just trying to keep the game close. They nickle and dimed their way to the Super Bowl on the back of a great defense and superb game-planning.

It was in 2002, that Weis surprised everyone by coming out of the gate with the pass-happy, quick-release, short passing game. They blew out their first two opponents and the short passing attack worked OK for a while. However, defenses started loading up on the short passing game and the Pats didn't have a downfield passing game or a running attack to capitalize.

In 2003, with Brady in his third season as a starter and with some serious speed with young WR they had been drafting, Weis took the shackles off Brady and started throwing the ball downfield -- you might remember a game winning long-ball in overtime in Miami last fall. The deep ball served to loosen up defenses. But remember, Weis didn't turn Brady loose until his third season, following a LOT of off-season work on the deep passing game. We've seen this downfield passing game continue so far this year; in fact, we've seen very little of the dink 'n dunk screen passes in the first two games. It's been mostly Corey Dillon moving the chains on the ground, interspersed with passes 15 to 25 yards downfield. I do expect to see the Pats dust off the dink n' dunk screen pass game at some point, probably against a blitz-happy, over-pursuing defense.

What Wanny needs to do is look at the Pats in 2001. He has a solid, opportunistic defense and an offense that can't punch its way out of a wet paper bag. For him to be calling lots of downfield passes with that O-line and Feeley's first start the other night was truly criminal. That's how you kill a young QB. Wanny should be playing pure field position football and the goal of every offensive series should be to avoid taking loses and turnovers, with a good series scratching and clawing to a first down or two. Punt the ball deep and play defense.

what makes our team different. this team is in complete disarray and is getting WORSE week by week.

1) our coach has been getting worse each week, why would he all of a sudden be able to to crap into a contender?

2) our defense is good yes, but they NEVER make the big play a team needs to win. We never get the key stop, never get the key turnover. We are just solidly good and plenty good enough for a average offense to have a good team. But they aren't a sexy defense.

3) the coaching staff is a joke

4) I mean watch these games, people don't know who to block, which way to run a route, how to hit a hole.

these aren't things that are fixed over night or done by a coach who has lost his team.

 

[Mr Yu]

Steve Goldstein, for what it's worth, said this after Brady came to town and the Dolphins beat the Pats that year, in 2001. He said, "Tom Brady is not meant to be an NFL Quarterback and the Dolphins showed him he needs to find another profession", Low and Behold what people see and say.

-What drive thru is Goldy working these days?:roflmao:

 

[hwc]

I agree. The Dolphins are in disarray and it all flows from the coach.

The downfield passing game Wanny talked about on Monday might have made sense with Ricky Williams rushing for 150 yards. That's the classic Air Coryell, Ernie Zampesi/Cowboys, Colts/Manning offense. Pound the ball successfully with a young Emmit Smith or a healthy E. James and you put the defense on its heels. Not only can't they afford to pin their ears back with a pass rush, but they bite on the play action like a hungry fish going after a piece of bait. QB has plenty of time to heave the ball downfield to receivers who are wide open because the safeties bit on the run.

Makes sense. But, I guess Wanny forgot to rethink that equation when Ricky Williams decided to retire to Jamaica! To even think of a long-ball game plan with totally inexperienced QB, no O-line, and nothing to keep the defense from blitzing an army on every down is insane.

I think you sell your defense short. From seeing the Pats go up against them for years, I would say that defense is plenty good enough to win ball games.

 

[DoLpHiNz34]

what makes our team different. this team is in complete disarray and is getting WORSE week by week.

1) our coach has been getting worse each week, why would he all of a sudden be able to to crap into a contender?

2) our defense is good yes, but they NEVER make the big play a team needs to win. We never get the key stop, never get the key turnover. We are just solidly good and plenty good enough for a average offense to have a good team. But they aren't a sexy defense.

3) the coaching staff is a joke

4) I mean watch these games, people don't know who to block, which way to run a route, how to hit a hole.

these aren't things that are fixed over night or done by a coach who has lost his team.

#4 is the one that really scares me. What have they been doing all off season?

 

[Section126]

You mean the game where A. Smith ran for a carrer best 152 yards. Brady threw 2 td passes and no inteceptions and Lamar smith coughed up the ball on the 3 yard line? I wonder what Steve Goldstein said after the Pats locked up a playoff bearth in that game. Oh you mean the first game.... right.... remember this-- (this is good advice, momma done told me) Its not how you start the season, its how you Phinish.

Just don't give up halfway through:) .

Wrong game dude....we are talking about the game in Miami.

 

[TorontoFin]

well when he played the dolphins I was very unimpressed and I did not think the Patriots were going to make the playoffs.

the point I am trying to make is the team improved greatly as the year went on. They were not super dominating from start to finish like so many people are saying they were.

They also turned around an 0-2 start last year. what you're all forgetting is they have Bill billichick, perhaps the greatest coach around at hiding his team's weaknesses through matchups that exploit his opponents. That's why Tom Brady looks so good with no star WR or RB (before this year). On the other side we have "pornstache." yeah I see a billichick type-of turn-aropund coming right up.

 

[TorontoFin]

If we had a coach innovative enough to bring the best out of what he has, and who's players actually believed in, you would be on to something. But your theory won't fly with wanny as coach

 

[dolfan87]

#4 is the one that really scares me. What have they been doing all off season?

Exactly. What HAVE they been doing? Mini-camps, training camp, pre-season games and scrimmages. It actually looks like they allowed a bunch of high school kids come in and run these camps!

How hard is it to grab your players by the nuts, kick some butts, and tell them enough is enough already.

Wannstedt appears to have grown a pair this week, but what was his excuse last week when he gave the players Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday off?! Last time I looked, Hurricane Ivan didn't even sniff Miami, so I sure hope he didn't use that excuse.

I seriously cannot wait for this entire coaching staff to go. I wouldn't be to terribly upset to hear of Wayne selling the team.

I say, Marino for owner, Saban for coach, and let's win some ball games.

87

 

[Gator Mike]

For what it's worth... Tom Brady's first four NFL starts in 2001:

9/30/01 (Indianapolis W 44-13) 13-23, 168 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 79.6 Rate

10/7/01 (@Miami L 10-30) 12-24, 86 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 58.7 Rate

10/14/01 (San Diego W 29-26) 33-54, 364 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT, 93.4 Rate

10/21/01 (@Indianapolis W 38-17) 16-20, 202 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT, 148.3 Rate

 

[InMyChambers]

For what it's worth... Tom Brady's first four NFL starts in 2001:

9/30/01 (Indianapolis W 44-13) 13-23, 168 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 79.6 Rate

10/7/01 (@Miami L 10-30) 12-24, 86 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 58.7 Rate

10/14/01 (San Diego W 29-26) 33-54, 364 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT, 93.4 Rate

10/21/01 (@Indianapolis W 38-17) 16-20, 202 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT, 148.3 Rate

not to be a dck but it's worth nothing

 

[finfan54]

To me, Konrad being out is a large part of protection problems. But yes, we could use an extra TE to help the left side but lets see what mcCintosh does.

 

[inFINSible]

I agree. The Dolphins are in disarray and it all flows from the coach.

The downfield passing game Wanny talked about on Monday might have made sense with Ricky Williams rushing for 150 yards. That's the classic Air Coryell, Ernie Zampesi/Cowboys, Colts/Manning offense. Pound the ball successfully with a young Emmit Smith or a healthy E. James and you put the defense on its heels. Not only can't they afford to pin their ears back with a pass rush, but they bite on the play action like a hungry fish going after a piece of bait. QB has plenty of time to heave the ball downfield to receivers who are wide open because the safeties bit on the run.

Makes sense. But, I guess Wanny forgot to rethink that equation when Ricky Williams decided to retire to Jamaica! To even think of a long-ball game plan with totally inexperienced QB, no O-line, and nothing to keep the defense from blitzing an army on every down is insane.

I think you sell your defense short. From seeing the Pats go up against them for years, I would say that defense is plenty good enough to win ball games.

I respect your knowledge. You really have a great understanding of what needs to be done but, I haven't seen ONE deep ball from this team YET this year.

As a matter of fact, Our offense is trying to run EXACTLY as you described....quick passes, short drops....3 and out is fine....win it in the final minutes with the two minute offense.

The problem is TOs....plain and simple.....without those turnovers were 2-0 running the offense you described.