cafinfan408
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Zach thomas is a player you tell your kids about not quite hof
Does Zach Thomas belong in the Pro Football Hall Of Fame?
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truedolfan57
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I don't understand the whole Ray Lewis argument. It's like you guys are saying that if a linebacker isn't like ray lewis, then they shouldn't be in the HOF. That would be like saying if a QB isn't as good, or better than Joe Montana or Dan Marino, then they shouldn't be in the HOF. Well, Troy Aikman is in the HOF, and he is nowhere near as good as Joe or Dan. Ray Lewis is arguably the best defensive player to ever play the game. If Ray Lewis is the determining factor in getting into the HOF, then we may never see a MLB ever get inducted into the HOF ever again. Comparing ZT to ray ray is just retarded. Zack Thomas will be in the HOF, one day.
hoops
Tua time!
i've been around as much miami football during that time period as you have...i can pretty much guarantee that...
To even consider Zach Thomas being HOF worthy is awesome for him though b/c he was a late draft pick which if Twitter and Facebook existed heavily back then people would've hated the pick.
where's th'fish
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Are you being sarcastic? I'd be surprised if anyone thought what you are saying here is true. The HoF voters suck through and through. They love rings and they certainly aren't nerds, unless they are nerds who don't know football very well.
johngarryvo
The Voice
hella playa.. just not hall numbers.. JT imo has the HOF pedigree: sacks, ints/td's, forced fums, ff/td's, hurries.. but I would still build a D around that 'square-headed-block of granite' every damn season!
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I wouldn't go that far about his playing ability, but he's certainly a better human being. By far.
100% Dolphins
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Zach Thomas was a fierce competitor on the field and had a nose for the football.
He belongs in the Dolphins Hall of Fame, and if I had a vote he would have my vote for Canton- but that's just because I'm a fin fan and he always gave us the best chance to win or make a play on defense. Never had any off the field trouble either...
Thomas is one of the best players the Fins ever had.
He belongs in the Dolphins Hall of Fame, and if I had a vote he would have my vote for Canton- but that's just because I'm a fin fan and he always gave us the best chance to win or make a play on defense. Never had any off the field trouble either...
Thomas is one of the best players the Fins ever had.
The defense went away when Marino showed up becasue the offense could not stay on the field that was the bottom line. Their was not running game until Jimmy Johnson brought it back and then magic the defense suddenly was back in top half of the stats again. We are seeing the same trend again with Philbin and his system. Its the system more than the players a good running game rest the defense allowing them to make more impact plays. The Killer Bees defense carried the team just prior to 83 and Dan the Man for example. Zach Thomas is just a great example of hard work and dedication and just wanting it more you have to respect that. Lots of good players in every round and Jimmy Johnson traded back every year basically adding additional draft picks increasing his odds of landing a superior player. Bill Beicheat does that now and its pretty amazing with all the picks he has had to work with he has missed on a ton of them winning just covers it up,
I don't think he's Hall of Fame caliber. There are certainly better players in Dolphin history who have not made it. Somebody already mentioned Bob Keuchenberg and Dick Anderson. The other I would name is Bill Stanfill. Keuchenberg played a full career but was always a second tier guard in terms of reputation around the league. That's what kept him out. Larry Little and several others were slotted above him. Anderson and Stanfill were terrific players who were somewhat understated during their prime. They had a chance to gain ground later in their careers but both suffered injuries that shortened their tenure.
IMO, Thomas is a notch below those guys but he has a terrific chance to make it two or three decades down the road. His numbers stack up well in regard to Hall of Fame criteria. Voters like to look at Pro Bowl and first team All-Pro numbers. Thomas fares well. He won't be an early selection but by the time the young pro football writers and broadcasters who are from Thomas' generation are in positions of influence in their 50s and 60s, Thomas has an excellent opportunity.
Jason Taylor was a superior player, IMO. I don't understand the determination to knock or slight him here. My dad followed the Dolphins from inception and basically didn't pay close attention to the players from later years. They weren't special enough for him to care. But he raved about Jason Taylor, saying he reminded him of the early '70s guys. I completely agree. Taylor's sack numbers and special qualities will get him in. Bellichick hugged Taylor and said he'll be in the Hall. Brady, as already mentioned, has long touted Jason's abilities. He called his left tackle and celebrated when Taylor was traded to the Redskins and out of the division, as I recall.
Taylor does have fewer first team All-Pro nods than Thomas. Middle linebacker was not as strong as defensive end during their careers, other than Ray Lewis. That's another variable in Thomas' path, how many rare inside linebackers show up. When I was a kid there were a ton of them, like Butkus, Nitschke, Nobis, Lambert, Lanier and so forth. Thomas needs mediocrity to reign, and not talented kids like Luke Keuchly. If several of that type enter the league, Thomas' opportunity dwindles. Roger Goodell's determination to neuter NFL defenses helps Thomas. We may see Hall of Fame rosters with 75% offensive players once Goodell's era are the guys up for nomination.
***
This won't be popular, but Marino ruined Shula. I saw both versions. Shula violated every principal he held and trumpeted once he acquired Marino. It was absolutely sickening to witness. Luckily I moved to Las Vegas almost simultaneously so at least I was able to take advantage of the pantyhose frailty by betting against the Dolphins when they faced a legit opponent.
Older coaches generally become lazier and more pass happy, especially if they have been head coaches for many decades. It was extremely predictable with Bobby Bowden. But Shula was in his early 50s when the Dolphins drafted Marino. There was no reason for him to succumb to a pantyhose style for another decade or so. Yet it happened with stunning swiftness. Pathetic. I've mentioned the low numbers of rushing attempts beginning in late 1984, and highlighted by examples like 9 rushes in the Super Bowl debacle against the 49ers. From that point we had no chance. I'll always wonder how Shula's late stage career would have unfolded if he had drafted a smart functional quarterback, and not a pin ball goof like Dan Marino. Too many temptations that Shula wasn't strong enough to avoid.
I don't have much faith in anyone who became a Dolphin fan during the Marino era, and somehow cherishes those years. They have already demonstrated flawed priorities. Big picture gaffes are inevitable. Stephen Ross pointed to the direction of his term when he lauded the Marino era immediately upon buying the Dolphins. That's a patch mentality. So he patched, and the community suffers. At least I was well prepared for it.
Actually there are a few fans here who are obviously of Marino-era disturbance, yet have broken free and demonstrate clarity. Bravo. They have overcome far more than I've been asked to.
IMO, Thomas is a notch below those guys but he has a terrific chance to make it two or three decades down the road. His numbers stack up well in regard to Hall of Fame criteria. Voters like to look at Pro Bowl and first team All-Pro numbers. Thomas fares well. He won't be an early selection but by the time the young pro football writers and broadcasters who are from Thomas' generation are in positions of influence in their 50s and 60s, Thomas has an excellent opportunity.
Jason Taylor was a superior player, IMO. I don't understand the determination to knock or slight him here. My dad followed the Dolphins from inception and basically didn't pay close attention to the players from later years. They weren't special enough for him to care. But he raved about Jason Taylor, saying he reminded him of the early '70s guys. I completely agree. Taylor's sack numbers and special qualities will get him in. Bellichick hugged Taylor and said he'll be in the Hall. Brady, as already mentioned, has long touted Jason's abilities. He called his left tackle and celebrated when Taylor was traded to the Redskins and out of the division, as I recall.
Taylor does have fewer first team All-Pro nods than Thomas. Middle linebacker was not as strong as defensive end during their careers, other than Ray Lewis. That's another variable in Thomas' path, how many rare inside linebackers show up. When I was a kid there were a ton of them, like Butkus, Nitschke, Nobis, Lambert, Lanier and so forth. Thomas needs mediocrity to reign, and not talented kids like Luke Keuchly. If several of that type enter the league, Thomas' opportunity dwindles. Roger Goodell's determination to neuter NFL defenses helps Thomas. We may see Hall of Fame rosters with 75% offensive players once Goodell's era are the guys up for nomination.
***
This won't be popular, but Marino ruined Shula. I saw both versions. Shula violated every principal he held and trumpeted once he acquired Marino. It was absolutely sickening to witness. Luckily I moved to Las Vegas almost simultaneously so at least I was able to take advantage of the pantyhose frailty by betting against the Dolphins when they faced a legit opponent.
Older coaches generally become lazier and more pass happy, especially if they have been head coaches for many decades. It was extremely predictable with Bobby Bowden. But Shula was in his early 50s when the Dolphins drafted Marino. There was no reason for him to succumb to a pantyhose style for another decade or so. Yet it happened with stunning swiftness. Pathetic. I've mentioned the low numbers of rushing attempts beginning in late 1984, and highlighted by examples like 9 rushes in the Super Bowl debacle against the 49ers. From that point we had no chance. I'll always wonder how Shula's late stage career would have unfolded if he had drafted a smart functional quarterback, and not a pin ball goof like Dan Marino. Too many temptations that Shula wasn't strong enough to avoid.
I don't have much faith in anyone who became a Dolphin fan during the Marino era, and somehow cherishes those years. They have already demonstrated flawed priorities. Big picture gaffes are inevitable. Stephen Ross pointed to the direction of his term when he lauded the Marino era immediately upon buying the Dolphins. That's a patch mentality. So he patched, and the community suffers. At least I was well prepared for it.
Actually there are a few fans here who are obviously of Marino-era disturbance, yet have broken free and demonstrate clarity. Bravo. They have overcome far more than I've been asked to.
ZT should be in but the HoF is a joke. Joe Namath: 179 TD's 220 INT's. Any organization that considers that to be HoF numbers I have not respect for. It's funny that he's consider the greatest Jets player of all time; it shows what a crap organization they've always been.