Doesn't anyone get it? Systems and Surrounding Talent make good QB's

[Cobra84]

How has that system done w/o Brady? Manning has had elite talent around him his entire career, so much so when he "only" has reggie Wayne and Pierre Garcon the "experts" start throwing him a pity party. The talent Peyton had around him this year was better than what Brady had yet Brady had one of the best seasons ever for a QB while Peyton won a weak division and is one and done AGAIN.

Quinn and Clausen looked good in college with Weis, Cassel looked good in NE and KC, and Orton looked good in Denver with McDaniels.

What elite talent? Edgerrin James was crap outside the Colts. I don't think the receivers or offensive line were as good as Manning made them look.

Brady has worse talent? He has a better offensive line and running game. Brady isn't throwing to a never used 2nd string tight end, some random fan with a custom jersey he bought with "White" printed on it or a division 3 receiver with stone hands.

Like Mike Said...Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. Chiefs got punched in the mouth.

They got punched in the mouth because they changed their offense. They had an effective run game that they just stopped using.

 

[nyjunc]

Quinn and Clausen looked good in college with Weis, Cassel looked good in NE and KC, and Orton looked good in Denver with McDaniels.

What elite talent? Edgerrin James was crap outside the Colts. I don't think the receivers or offensive line were as good as Manning made them look.

Brady has worse talent? He has a better offensive line and running game. Brady isn't throwing to a never used 2nd string tight end, some random fan with a custom jersey he bought with "White" printed on it or a division 3 receiver with stone hands.


The got punched in the mouth because they changed their offense. They had an effective run game they they just stopped using.

Quinn and Clausen never won a big game in college and both have looked pretty bad in the NFL(Clausen was justa rookie to be fair).

Orton had almost identical #s from 2008 w/ Chi to 2009 w/ den, his #s got better this year but they weren't helping his team win.

Cassel looked great yesterday and in 2008 they won 6 LESS games w/ cassel as their starter compared w/ the year. SIX games is a HUGE amount and they faced a MUCH weaker sched in 2008.


Edge was done when he left Indy. he was one of the best RBs in the game in his prime. yes, did you notice how good peyton made Harrison, Wayne and compnay look? How many other QBs could take 1st rd picks and win w/ them?

A good example of making someone would be Brady w/ Deion Branch. Branch played w/ a good QB in Seattle but was never as effective as he was in NE and became this year again in NE.

Brady is winning w/ BenJarvus Green-Ellis and Danny Woodhead running the footbal and w/ Welker, Branch as his WRs. His TEs are the only elite talent level position on the O and those guys were ROOKIES.

Brady once led an offense w/ jabar gaffney and reche Caldwell as his main weapons to the title game.


Manning does not compare to Brady. As a reg season fantasy QB manning wins, as a real QB that plays his best when it matters most? It's not close.

 

[RayStinkle]

Brady has been winning in this offense for a long time. He knows his players and they execute for him every down. That is why they are still there. It makes a big difference.

 

[trojanma]

Junc you and I are on the same page here.
Look at the Patriots record for the last few years. The only one that they didn't make the playoffs(except for the awful 9-7 team that had Brady + a bunch of practice squad people) was the year he was hurt.

If there is anything that proves our point it is this year.
Manning loses a couple playmakers Rb and Clark and he is immediately much worse. 17 picks this year.
Brady 4 interceptions all season! If you think that the Patriots are loaded with elite playmakers except for Welker you are delusional. The only reason that Woodhead and BJE are relevant is that no one respects the run against the Patriots.

That is the thing about the Patriots offense. It has changed year in and year out. It has not been the same.
Name one offensive player that went to the Patriots that Brady didn't make better.

Do you guys think Bellicheck is some sort of Wizard? The patriots have had to replace an OC every two years. Belicheck won the lotto with Brady.

 

[PAfinfan63069]

could not agree more ... there are so many examples of QB's moving o another team and failing due to the system or a bad team around him. Henne was counted on throwing the ball WAY too much in many of the games and when you have a mediocre line and virtually no threat of a running game with any explosiveness defenses can crowd the line of scrimmage also knowing that we just dinked and dunked short passes 90% of the time with hardly any deep passes. I see stat comparisons between Sancheese and Henne and Henne is right there with him in almost every category. One MAJOR difference though is look at the line that Sancheese has to protect him and also how much his running game has helped take the pressure off of him. He has had a few games where he looked good when he had to throw alot but he also had some horrible games when the pressure was on him. A QB in his second year as a starter with a below average line, fair running game, and pathetic play calling is going to fail almost every time !!! How did Peyton look this year when his line was just average, had a fair running game, and had no real threats at receiver ??? H e still had a decent season but he looked BAD in 4 straight games and never looked like possibly the best QB in the NFL !!! Those factors DO make a difference and it is almost impossible to analyze a guy who has been in the league just two years as a starter with very little help around him.

 

[napsndreds]

So anyone can be good at qb with a good system? So the qb himself doesn't have to have any talents? I think you need a smart talented athlete to be successful as well.

 

[Cobra84]

Quinn and Clausen never won a big game in college and both have looked pretty bad in the NFL(Clausen was justa rookie to be fair).

Orton had almost identical #s from 2008 w/ Chi to 2009 w/ den, his #s got better this year but they weren't helping his team win.

Cassel looked great yesterday and in 2008 they won 6 LESS games w/ cassel as their starter compared w/ the year. SIX games is a HUGE amount and they faced a MUCH weaker sched in 2008.


Edge was done when he left Indy. he was one of the best RBs in the game in his prime. yes, did you notice how good peyton made Harrison, Wayne and compnay look? How many other QBs could take 1st rd picks and win w/ them?

A good example of making someone would be Brady w/ Deion Branch. Branch played w/ a good QB in Seattle but was never as effective as he was in NE and became this year again in NE.

Brady is winning w/ BenJarvus Green-Ellis and Danny Woodhead running the footbal and w/ Welker, Branch as his WRs. His TEs are the only elite talent level position on the O and those guys were ROOKIES.

Brady once led an offense w/ jabar gaffney and reche Caldwell as his main weapons to the title game.


Manning does not compare to Brady. As a reg season fantasy QB manning wins, as a real QB that plays his best when it matters most? It's not close.

Exactly my point. They aren't in the system anymore and now they suck.

Almost 1000 yards passing is almost identical? Its not his fault the team blows.

Everyone has a bad game and he didn't to much worse than Brady did against the Ravens in the playoffs last year. 5 less games and they weren't likely going 16-0 again even with Brady. Cassel won 1 more game in 2008 than Brady did in 2009.

You don't lose a nearly a full yard a carry in just one year.
Who cares about round picked? It doesn't make them good. I could make a great undrafted team and a team of all 1st rounders that couldn't win a game.

Branch never had great stats anywhere. Considering games missed to injury, his Seahawks and Patriots stats aren't too much different.

I don't care about names, just performance. BJE and Woodhead had very good years.
Welker is always open and Branch is a good 2nd receiver. i wouldn't complain too much.
If they are elite, why does it matter if they are rookies?

As long as they could catch they couldn't be worse what the Colts have.

Brady and Manning have nearly the same playoff stats. Brady just has a better team.

 

[Roonnette]

I think Tom Brady would look like sh&t in the Dolphin offense to be honest.

no

 

[Phinatic8u]

The only qbs that were systems are Brady & Marino.

Manning is a great qb, but Brady is leaps and bounds better than him.

Everybody will see when the Patriots destroy the Jets (sorry Junc)

 

[Roonnette]

Manning does not compare to Brady. .

For the purposes of discussion here, yes they do. Both run their offense. Payton calls the plays, and Brady runs the offense in NE. Brady runs the same offense he ran at Michigan. Whatever he learned there, he plays in NFL, the defensive reads are the only difference.

 

[dolpns13]

funny how the OP calls everyone out for "not getting it", but he's the only one that clearly doesn't get it.

 

[Dr. Phin]

Henne has poor accuracy in crossing patterns and the long ball. He also throws high alot on the side patterns. Henne can't seem to just step up into the pocket, even when the protection if good. He bails too soon. (I won't even go into his staring down receivers or poor decisions....) These things have nothing to do with a system...they have to do with the fact that he is a bad QB. Deal with it.

 

[nyjunc]

Exactly my point. They aren't in the system anymore and now they suck.

Almost 1000 yards passing is almost identical? Its not his fault the team blows.

Everyone has a bad game and he didn't to much worse than Brady did against the Ravens in the playoffs last year. 5 less games and they weren't likely going 16-0 again even with Brady. Cassel won 1 more game in 2008 than Brady did in 2009.

You don't lose a nearly a full yard a carry in just one year.
Who cares about round picked? It doesn't make them good.

Branch never had great stats anywhere. Considering games missed to injury, his Seahawks and Patriots stats aren't too much different.

I don't care about names, just performance. BJE and Woodhead had very good years.
Welker is always open and Branch is a good 2nd receiver. i wouldn't complain too much.
If they are elite, why does it matter if they are rookies?

As long as they could catch they couldn't be worse what the Colts have.

Brady and Manning have nearly the same playoff stats. Brady just has a better team.

But neither were great in college and neither won a truly big game in college.


In 2008 Orton threw for 18 TDs & 12 INts and led his team to an 9-6 record
In 2009 Orton threw for 21 TDs & 12 INTs and led his team to an 8-7 record

KC beat one playoff bound team all year(7-9 seattle), #s are great but no one was fooled into believing Cassel was a big time QB b/c his #as looked good. What good are #s if you can't win when it matters most?

Edge went back up to 3.8 and .39 the 2 years after his first year in AZ. Edge did have a 3.6 YPC season in Indy in case you missed it.

Manning has had elite level talent around him since day 1, Brady had it for 1-2 seasons.

2009 in Seattle in 15 games Branch had 45 recs, 437 yds, 9.7 avg. and 2 TDs
2010 in NE in 11 games he had 48 recs, 706 yds, 14.7 avg. and 5 TDs

Woodhead wasn't good enough to stay on our roster, I saw Woodhead play last year. he's not very talented, Brady is making him look much better than he is.

The Colts have top 10 talent on O around Manning WITH all the injuries.


Did you know the Colts D's have allowed LESS points in regulation per game than the "great" NE D's? The difference btw NE in the 00s and Indy has been at QB in big games. Brady has stepped up, Peyton has stepped back.

 

[datruth55]

Did you know the Colts D's have allowed LESS points in regulation per game than the "great" NE D's? The difference btw NE in the 00s and Indy has been at QB in big games. Brady has stepped up, Peyton has stepped back.

Ain't that the truth. Peyton 9-10 in playoff games now. He's gone one-and-done now 7 times in 11 tries.

By the way to the original poster who says it's about scheme and surrounding talent. Was the scheme and talent around Kevin Kolb different than it was around Michael Vick?

 

[JCane]

For the purposes of discussion here, yes they do. Both run their offense. Payton calls the plays, and Brady runs the offense in NE. Brady runs the same offense he ran at Michigan. Whatever he learned there, he plays in NFL, the defensive reads are the only difference.

And of course the other big differences, offensive output, and the big one, WINS.

Peyton Manning does not compare to Tom Brady. And I, for one, am rooting for Tom Brady and the Patriots. I don't see how anyone can not like Tom Brady. And if you don't like him, you're just a hater.