Dolphins Depth Chart plus a few questions... | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Dolphins Depth Chart plus a few questions...

DOLFANMIKE

DOLFANMIKE

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Current posted Dolphins Depth Chart:
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Some questions this depth chart creates are:
QB Tua and Bridgewater should team up to be a really good QB room. I'm excited to see Tua in action with a solid OL and WR's in front of him. Add a running attack that McDaniel has had everywhere hre's been and I think Tua has every chance to be great, not just good.
TE Long will likely have a larger role in our offense. I suspect he takes reps from Shaheen and Smythe this season.
FB will be fun to watch this year. Ingold should win out as our FB but Lovett is a really solid player and could surprise.
RB - I love Mostert, but I don't see us trying to force him in as a full season starter. I think his role will be as a change of pace player and when he's hot then we give him starter types of carries. Also - it's pretty well documented that I'm a Doaks fan. He reminds me of Shaun Alexander back in the day, and Doaks is our biggest RB. He can slam it inside and is a serious threat out of the backfield. He also showed some great pass pro blocking in the preseason last year. I think he makes our roster, but understand the doubters. My hope is he gets a long look this preseason. I think he'll be our 'Big Back" guy.
WR Sherfield is one of my favorite new players. I think his potential is great and expect him to make plays for us this year on Special teams and on our offense. Where does he fit? To me, he and Ced Wilson are battling for WR3, maybe along with Bowden.
OL I think Jackson at OG is over. He'll likely be our backup at both OT spots, with Armstead and Eich starting. Hunt stays at RG, Williams at LG. If you haven't seen the thread on Williams that I just posted recently, check it out. You'll be surprised this guy was available. He's played much better then what he gets credit for. Robert Jones will be perfect at OL7. He can play as a solid backup OG and OT on both sides. The only way I don't see him making the roster is if we trade him, which could happen. It's probably not popular to say, but I also see Jackson as a real candidate to get traded to a OT needy team.
DL Maybe our deepest position on the team. Looking better than good here.
LB This is our biggest need position IMO. I'm not happy with Roberts starting. I'm not happy with Baker playing out of position. Move Baker to the weakside Inside and find a legit MLB that can STAR for us in this defense. Right now I see this position as our Achilles heal.
CB What a great time to be a DOLFAN! Amazing room of DB's. X, Holland, Byron and Brandon, Rowe, and Needham! I also really like the potential of Trill Williams. This is probabally the season Iggy moves on from Miami.

Specials - I think Sanders will get his game back on the elite level, and Morstead is a true pro that should thrive in Miami. We added some really good special teams players that can really make this part of the game a real strength. IF they can make the roster. Crossen, Sherfield, Ingold, Lovett, Riley, Trill, Iggy, Redwine, and Fejedelem among others.
 
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DOLFANMIKE said:
A legit MLB is our greatest need now IMO
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What do you mean by a "legit" MLB?

In this scheme a run stuffer is not going to be a 3 down player. Sure, if you can find a guy that can do that, and cover at an elite level, by all means go for it. The problem is that there are only a few of those guys in the league at any given time, and even fewer that are actually ever available.

I've said this before but it bears reinforcing. The "prototypical" MLB that most ppl have in mind is not really a 3-4, DB heavy scheme fit as an every down guy. He would come out of the game almost any time a passing down sub package came on the field. You can't really pay an elite guy for that.

Maybe you can get lucky and draft a guy, but you might draft a half dozen guys with high picks before you find the right one.
 
Mach2 said:
What do you mean by a "legit" MLB?

In this scheme a run stuffer is not going to be a 3 down player. Sure, if you can find a guy that can do that, and cover at an elite level, by all means go for it. The problem is that there are only a few of those guys in the league at any given time, and even fewer that are actually ever available.

I've said this before but it bears reinforcing. The "prototypical" MLB that most ppl have in mind is not really a 3-4, DB heavy scheme fit as an every down guy. He would come out of the game almost any time a passing down sub package came on the field. You can't really pay an elite guy for that.

Maybe you can get lucky and draft a guy, but you might draft a half dozen guys with high picks before you find the right one.
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I don't care if we are in a 5-2 look, 3-4, 4-3, or a nickel. We need a legit MLB that can stuff the run, cover, and rush the passer. When we find that guy our defense goes to the next level. We already have the DL and DB's. LB is our biggest need on Defense hands down.
 
I'm a fan of Doaks.

No idea if the team will agree with you and he ends up being in the mix.

If not, we have to bring in a bigger back via draft or UDFA (or FA, trade).

I'd like to see us do something between now and camp that sends Elandon to the bench.

I'm not sure how much Jaelen plays OLB, or how much we'll run a true 3 - 4.

Raekwon isn't a true nose and Jaelan is more of a 4 - 3 end (as is Van Ginkster).
 
DOLFANMIKE said:
I don't care if we are in a 5-2 look, 3-4, 4-3, or a nickel. We need a legit MLB that can stuff the run, cover, and rush the passer. When we find that guy our defense goes to the next level. We already have the DL and DB's. LB is our biggest need on Defense hands down.
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One of my main points here is that those guys are very rare. Sometimes when ppl make that statement, it comes across as "just get one" as if it's that easy. It isn't. You would have to have an All Pro ILB for 1 player to execute all those responsibilities at an "elite" level. Barring that, the scheme is important when considering player choices. If one doesn't believe that is true, I don't know what to say because the premise is invalid on its face. Generally guys that are big/stout enough to shed blocks of huge agile linemen and hold up physically as a run stopper at the POA are not built the same way as guys that are asked to cover RBs, today's TEs, or the occasional slot in zone heavy schemes, let alone man schemes. No idea how old you are, but that really does sound like an obsolete/outdated line of thinking from days of yesteryear.

I also think equating scheme/philosophy to alignment (3-4, 4-3, etc) is an oversimplification. You can run a vanilla or "exotic" scheme from either.

I agree we are weak at ILB. I don't think it is very likely that we actually find the player you are describing all in one package. I just took a look at a list of the top LBs in the game today. Who, exactly, do you see on the list that can do all three of those things at a high level? I see two, maybe three if I give the benefit of doubt.
 
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Mach2 said:
One of my main points here is that those guys are very rare. Sometimes when ppl make that statement, it comes across as "just get one" as if it's that easy. It isn't. You would have to have an All Pro ILB for 1 player to execute all those responsibilities at an "elite" level. Barring that, the scheme is important when considering player choices. If one doesn't believe that is true, I don't know what to say because the premise is invalid on its face. Generally guys that are big/stout enough to shed blocks of huge agile linemen and hold up physically as a run stopper at the POA are not built the same way as guys that are asked to cover RBs, today's TEs, or the occasional slot in zone heavy schemes, let alone man schemes. No idea how old you are, but that really does sound like an obsolete/outdated line of thinking from days of yesteryear.

I also think equating scheme/philosophy to alignment (3-4, 4-3, etc) is an oversimplification. You can run a vanilla or "exotic" scheme from either.

I agree we are weak at ILB. I don't think it is very likely that we actually find the player you are describing all in one package. I just took a look at a list of the top LBs in the game today. Who, exactly, do you see on the list that can do all three of those things at a high level? I see two, maybe three if I give the benefit of doubt.
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I was thinking the same thing. And even though the ILBs we have are not Hall of fame players, they are good. Baker is good in coverage and good as a pass rusher. Roberts showed much improved ball skills (4 PD and a pick 6 on 20 something targets) in coverage, and he has 14 TFL the last 2 seasons taking 50% of defensive snaps. I would say that is good production. We also have one of the best D lines featuring a player grabbing almost 90 tkls last season. I think we have been looking for an upgrade and we might still sign someone or draft someone. But I’m not on board with this philosophy that we have a gaping hole on defense. Because we don’t.
 
Roberts is only in on first down as a run stuffer. He's one of the hardest hitters on the team. He's what you need on first down to sniff out the ball carrier and smash him into next week!! He's made some beautiful hits as a Dolphin. He's forced 4 fumbles, had a pick and recovered 2 fumbles!! He has 6.5 career sacks and began his career as a 6th round pick of the Patriots.
 
Mach2 said:
One of my main points here is that those guys are very rare. Sometimes when ppl make that statement, it comes across as "just get one" as if it's that easy. It isn't. You would have to have an All Pro ILB for 1 player to execute all those responsibilities at an "elite" level. Barring that, the scheme is important when considering player choices. If one doesn't believe that is true, I don't know what to say because the premise is invalid on its face. Generally guys that are big/stout enough to shed blocks of huge agile linemen and hold up physically as a run stopper at the POA are not built the same way as guys that are asked to cover RBs, today's TEs, or the occasional slot in zone heavy schemes, let alone man schemes. No idea how old you are, but that really does sound like an obsolete/outdated line of thinking from days of yesteryear.

I also think equating scheme/philosophy to alignment (3-4, 4-3, etc) is an oversimplification. You can run a vanilla or "exotic" scheme from either.

I agree we are weak at ILB. I don't think it is very likely that we actually find the player you are describing all in one package. I just took a look at a list of the top LBs in the game today. Who, exactly, do you see on the list that can do all three of those things at a high level? I see two, maybe three if I give the benefit of doubt.
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The run stopping part of an ILB is pretty much irrelevant on a good football team these days anyway, its nice to have and all but cant be labeled as a urgent need. Its easy to figure why that statement would sound ludicrous on a Fins message board though... The counter here will point to a game the Fins lost 24-17, in which they werent able to stop the run in the 2nd half, if only we could stop the run they'll say. The problem here isnt about stopping the run, its about scoring 17 points.

Alot of people are stuck in trying to build a better Dolphins team, or building a team that can win playing the way the Fins have played like in the last 2 decades. In other words, the perfect average team... For the first time in a very long while, it looks like the Fins actually got the memo on how to stop teams from running in the 2nd half, build an offense that scores points to a point where its actually a mistake for an opponent to try to run the ball in the 2nd half.
 
NBP81 said:
The run stopping part of an ILB is pretty much irrelevant on a good football team these days anyway, its nice to have and all but cant be labeled as a urgent need. Its easy to figure why that statement would sound ludicrous on a Fins message board though... The counter here will point to a game the Fins lost 24-17, in which they werent able to stop the run in the 2nd half, if only we could stop the run they'll say. The problem here isnt about stopping the run, its about scoring 17 points.

Alot of people are stuck in trying to build a better Dolphins team, or building a team that can win playing the way the Fins have played like in the last 2 decades. In other words, the perfect average team... For the first time in a very long while, it looks like the Fins actually got the memo on how to stop teams from running in the 2nd half, build an offense that scores points to a point where its actually a mistake for an opponent to try to run the ball in the 2nd half.
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IDK that I would say irrelevant. It can work against you at times for sure.

The thing is when a DC has a philosophy he believes in, some positions take priority over others. I've had this "stud LB" debate before. It's nearly impossible to convince "old schoolers" that particular formula is obsolete, and has been for at least a decade. Most run stoppers these days are not three down players because what makes them good in that aspect end up being liabilities on passing downs, which is virtually every down that that is longer than 5 yards to convert.
 
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