Dolphins have 'expectation of mastery' for quarterback Tua Tagovailoa

[Springveldt]

Like I’ve said what did the last five games of the season where he played all 17 games look like ?

If that’s what you want at Qb, we’re all ****ed man

It looked like he was playing with backups and practice squad guys?

I wasn’t advocating for him to gain weight as much as if the extra weight was what was making him scramble less and throw it away more then I’m all for that.

In truth, it was probably the carrot of a $250M contract that made him throw it away and stay healthy.

 

[mwestberry]

Have you ever watched Josh Allen in his losses in the playoffs ?

Tua has never reached any of that level of performance in a big game. He’s had one appearance in 6 years.

Tua probably never will with this scheme.
I haven't seen Tua's overall play tell me he could play better in another scheme.

MSN

“But here, it's an entire step above. And again, for good reason. I mean, they want these balls out before our guys are getting to whatever their landmarks are because we're throwing to space, and we have so much speed that you're anticipating, I gotta trust this receiver is gonna be there.”

Tua's injury history says a backup QB will play at some point during the season.
The scheme is not sustainable for a couple of reasons, but missing one player on offense disrupts the timing. Without timing, this offense is sunk.

Comparing any QB to Tua is crazy because Tua can't do what we see other QB's do in terms of overall play ...
And I would be hard pressed to find more than a couple QBs in the NFL who could consistently run this offense because it doesn't allow the QB to play ball.

The one thing missing to me is the time allowed to read the second/third options.
Giving Tua better protection may change my outlook. I know a handful of QBs in the league can hit second and third options as well as scramble,
but those traits haven't shown up in Tua's game.

 

[Finsup1981]

It looked like he was playing with backups and practice squad guys?

I wasn’t advocating for him to gain weight as much as if the extra weight was what was making him scramble less and throw it away more then I’m all for that.

In truth, it was probably the carrot of a $250M contract that made him throw it away and stay healthy.

Here was the starting lineup at the beginning of 2023:

QB Tua Tagovailoa* RB Raheem Mostert* FB Alec Ingold* WR Tyreek Hill*+ WR Jaylen Waddle TE Durham Smythe

LT Terron Armstead* LG Isaiah Wynn C Connor Williams RG Robert Hunt RT Austin Jackson

LDE Christian Wilkins NT Raekwon Davis RDE Zach Sieler

LOLB Andrew Van Ginkel LILB Jerome Baker RILB David Long ROLB Bradley Chubb

LCB Xavien Howard RCB Kader Kohou SS Jevon Holland FS DeShon Elliott

For the last stretch of that season we were missing Williams and Wynn on the offensive line, replaced by Eichenberg and Cotton, but all the skill position players were still playing.

The defensive line took a hit that year with Chubb and Phillips but I still think if you swap out Tua and Josh Allen the Dolphins assuredly get further than the first round and probably win the division. I just think a guy of Allens caliber can make up for the Oline deficiencies whereas Tua needs the team to be more complete for him to succeed.

You can still win with Tua, just needs more around him to be succesful, and I think its a lot harder to do when hes not on his rookie scale contract anymore.

 

[djphinfan]

Tua probably never will with this scheme.
I haven't seen Tua's overall play tell me he could play better in another scheme.

MSN

“But here, it's an entire step above. And again, for good reason. I mean, they want these balls out before our guys are getting to whatever their landmarks are because we're throwing to space, and we have so much speed that you're anticipating, I gotta trust this receiver is gonna be there.”

Tua's injury history says a backup QB will play at some point during the season.
The scheme is not sustainable for a couple of reasons, but missing one player on offense disrupts the timing. Without timing, this offense is sunk.

Comparing any QB to Tua is crazy because Tua can't do what we see other QB's do in terms of overall play ...
And I would be hard pressed to find more than a couple QBs in the NFL who could consistently run this offense because it doesn't allow the QB to play ball.

The one thing missing to me is the time allowed to read the second/third options.
Giving Tua better protection may change my outlook. I know a handful of QBs in the league can hit second and third options as well as scramble,
but those traits haven't shown up in Tua's game.

This is all true..

I’m hard on Tua cause I want him to reach his potential but his skillset can do things others can’t, and vice versa

 

[Sticky Gloves]

Tua probably never will with this scheme.
I haven't seen Tua's overall play tell me he could play better in another scheme.

MSN

“But here, it's an entire step above. And again, for good reason. I mean, they want these balls out before our guys are getting to whatever their landmarks are because we're throwing to space, and we have so much speed that you're anticipating, I gotta trust this receiver is gonna be there.”

Tua's injury history says a backup QB will play at some point during the season.
The scheme is not sustainable for a couple of reasons, but missing one player on offense disrupts the timing. Without timing, this offense is sunk.

Comparing any QB to Tua is crazy because Tua can't do what we see other QB's do in terms of overall play ...
And I would be hard pressed to find more than a couple QBs in the NFL who could consistently run this offense because it doesn't allow the QB to play ball.

The one thing missing to me is the time allowed to read the second/third options.
Giving Tua better protection may change my outlook. I know a handful of QBs in the league can hit second and third options as well as scramble,
but those traits haven't shown up in Tua's game.

This has been long argued Tua is just throwing to spaces, and this has been confirmed by former teammates (WRs), and now the current QB2 confirms it as well.

Again, this is the type of offense they built to hide Tua's arm strength issues. You can't be late on reads when you are a soft tosser. The way to offset a soft tosser is the ball comes out very early. If it's coming out very early, you can't actually tell how the play is going to develop, so you are just assuming the receiver is going to be there (ie throwing to spots). Good defenses can shut this down.

I'm sure Tua-fans and the media are going to shift blame to McDaniel when this fails once again. Personally I'd really like to see how McDaniel does building an offensive scheme when he isn't limited at QB. He's doing the best scheme possible to offset both Tua's arm strength AND ensure he doesn't take any hits. Remove those requirements and you might have a much more dynamic offense. My guess though is McD doesn't get that chance with the Dolphins and takes the fall. Grier good like that.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

This has been long argued Tua is just throwing to spaces, and this has been confirmed by former teammates (WRs), and now the current QB2 confirms it as well.

Again, this is the type of offense they built to hide Tua's arm strength issues. You can't be late on reads when you are a soft tosser. The way to offset a soft tosser is the ball comes out very early. If it's coming out very early, you can't actually tell how the play is going to develop, so you are just assuming the receiver is going to be there (ie throwing to spots). Good defenses can shut this down.

I'm sure Tua-fans and the media are going to shift blame to McDaniel when this fails once again. Personally I'd really like to see how McDaniel does building an offensive scheme when he isn't limited at QB. He's doing the best scheme possible to offset both Tua's arm strength AND ensure he doesn't take any hits. Remove those requirements and you might have a much more dynamic offense. My guess though is McD doesn't get that chance with the Dolphins and takes the fall. Grier good like that.

*IF* the OL is good enough to give TT 'typical' time to throw, it will be interesting if timing throws become less frequent.

 

[Sticky Gloves]

*IF* the OL is good enough to give TT 'typical' time to throw, it will be interesting if timing throws become less frequent.

I can't see it. The whole scheme is based on it. Basically, the entire offense has been taught to do things this way. They teach the receivers. They learn the plays in offseason, where to be, and how to run routes for it. Then as you can see, they also are having the backup QBs learn to throw this way. The ball is coming out whether the QB has time or not, and whether the receiver is there or not.

Sink or swim. There's no reversing course mid-season.

 

[Springveldt]

Here was the starting lineup at the beginning of 2023:

QB Tua Tagovailoa* RB Raheem Mostert* FB Alec Ingold* WR Tyreek Hill*+ WR Jaylen Waddle TE Durham Smythe

LT Terron Armstead* LG Isaiah Wynn C Connor Williams RG Robert Hunt RT Austin Jackson

LDE Christian Wilkins NT Raekwon Davis RDE Zach Sieler

LOLB Andrew Van Ginkel LILB Jerome Baker RILB David Long ROLB Bradley Chubb

LCB Xavien Howard RCB Kader Kohou SS Jevon Holland FS DeShon Elliott

For the last stretch of that season we were missing Williams and Wynn on the offensive line, replaced by Eichenberg and Cotton, but all the skill position players were still playing.

The defensive line took a hit that year with Chubb and Phillips but I still think if you swap out Tua and Josh Allen the Dolphins assuredly get further than the first round and probably win the division. I just think a guy of Allens caliber can make up for the Oline deficiencies whereas Tua needs the team to be more complete for him to succeed.

You can still win with Tua, just needs more around him to be succesful, and I think its a lot harder to do when hes not on his rookie scale contract anymore.

Rob Hunt missed 6 games, Tyreek missed games and was in a walking boot, Mostert missed the last 2 games, Waddle missed the last 2 games. I’ve already posted all this before.

For the last games from Tennessee onwards the Dolphins were missing 3 OL, WR1, WR2 and HB1 for multiple games. There is a reason Claypole was running the route that ended the season.

Defense was even more banged up than the offense. From memory they were missing Chubb, Phillips, Baker, Holland, Howard and had injuries to a couple of other starters.

So yeah, he was playing with backups and practice squad guys. Multiple games with an interior of Jones, Eichenberg and Cotton. Multiple games without Waddle and Tyreek hobbling around with no option at TE or WR to throw to.

 

[Finsup1981]

Rob Hunt missed 6 games, Tyreek missed games and was in a walking boot, Mostert missed the last 2 games, Waddle missed the last 2 games. I’ve already posted all this before.

For the last games from Tennessee onwards the Dolphins were missing 3 OL, WR1, WR2 and HB1 for multiple games. There is a reason Claypole was running the route that ended the season.

Defense was even more banged up than the offense. From memory they were missing Chubb, Phillips, Baker, Holland, Howard and had injuries to a couple of other starters.

So yeah, he was playing with backups and practice squad guys. Multiple games with an interior of Jones, Eichenberg and Cotton. Multiple games without Waddle and Tyreek hobbling around with no option at TE or WR to throw to.

Fair points, I didnt research exaclty who was out but I knew we were missing quite a few good players. My argument still stands that Allen wouldve taken them further than Tua that year even despite all the injuries, I just think hes a better QB and a much better QB when it comes to putting a team on his shoulders and carrying them, Tuas great within a system but doesnt have the individual ability to carry a team like Allen does.

 

[Springveldt]

Fair points, I didnt research exaclty who was out but I knew we were missing quite a few good players. My argument still stands that Allen wouldve taken them further than Tua that year even despite all the injuries, I just think hes a better QB and a much better QB when it comes to putting a team on his shoulders and carrying them, Tuas great within a system but doesnt have the individual ability to carry a team like Allen does.

Possibly but Allen tried to throw away the game in Miami and got bailed out with a lucky bounce off a helmet and a punt return. That was with all starters playing, his OL didn’t miss a single game all year.

He wouldn’t have helped in Baltimore or in KC, they still get stomped. Maybe he uses his legs and scrambles for a 1st down against the Titans but even if they get a home playoff game they were that beat up they probably lose anyway.

Also, I wasn’t even talking about Allen, I was just saying there is an obvious reason for fat Tua looking like he fell off. Everyone around him got injured.

 

[hoops]

The division runs thru Miami every year status quo oline or anything else if Josh Allen is behind center.

Period.

Allen doesn’t care if you are playing eich or borom or whatever other corpse you put out there.

 

[Springveldt]

The division runs thru Miami every year status quo oline or anything else if Josh Allen is behind center.

Period.

Allen doesn’t care if you are playing eich or borom or whatever other corpse you put out there.

I think he would care if he had an interior of Jones, Eichenberg and Cotton blocking for him. Have you seen his line the last 2 years? No injuries and giving him all sorts of time in the pocket.

He’s good but he won’t be able to overcome an OL that’s getting pushed into his lap on a regular basis, even Mahomes struggles with that.

Thing is though, Buffalo aren’t stupid enough to test that theory.

 

[hoops]

I think he would care if he had an interior of Jones, Eichenberg and Cotton blocking for him. Have you seen his line the last 2 years? No injuries and giving him all sorts of time in the pocket.

He’s good but he won’t be able to overcome an OL that’s getting pushed into his lap on a regular basis, even Mahomes struggles with that.

Thing is though, Buffalo aren’t stupid enough to test that theory.

Josh Allen is a different kind of qb from Mahomes.

Folks struggle to tackle Josh Allen he runs by second levels of defenses like they are standing still.

He don’t care about what’s in front of him on the oline.

Or what’s at skill anymore either. He’s beyond that. Which is bad news for the rest of us lol

 

[Finsup1981]

I think he would care if he had an interior of Jones, Eichenberg and Cotton blocking for him. Have you seen his line the last 2 years? No injuries and giving him all sorts of time in the pocket.

He’s good but he won’t be able to overcome an OL that’s getting pushed into his lap on a regular basis, even Mahomes struggles with that.

Thing is though, Buffalo aren’t stupid enough to test that theory.

I just think Allens legs are the ultimate equalizer, if I had to put any QB behind a terrible line and expect some success the list would be Allen and Lamar Jackson. So yes it would certainly be more difficult with those 3 on the line, but Allen can make throws off platform from any arm angle and shrugs tacklers off like its pee wee football.

I'll put my money on Allen any day of the week, I think hes that good.

 

[hoops]

I just think Allens legs are the ultimate equalizer, if I had to put any QB behind a terrible line and expect some success the list would be Allen and Lamar Jackson. So yes it would certainly be more difficult with those 3 on the line, but Allen can make throws off platform from any arm angle and shrugs tacklers off like its pee wee football.

I'll put my money on Allen any day of the week, I think hes that good.

No doubt

Now yall let me get back to reppin 2 and a quarter as many times as our top 15 pick dt