Dolphins' highly-paid WRs not living up to expectations | Page 7 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Dolphins' highly-paid WRs not living up to expectations

Anybody who actually has read the threads knows We all have said he is part of the problem....but he is far from the only problem.
 
LDaniel7 said:
That's the stone cold truth right there.

People using stats to puff Hartline also could puff Bess the same same (no pun intended). A person has to be able to look beyond the stats to how they were amassed. It may help some people to think in basketball terms: In basketball, you have guys who can "create on their own," i.e. get their own shot no matter the D or who is guarding them. Then you have guys that cannot create on their own, but make a decent percentage when running a set to get them a shot. In football terms, if you are going to target a WR AND have high level success as a team, that WR better be a playmaker who can create on his own," so to speak, and not be overmatched by good coverage 8 out of 10 plays. Hartline has never been that guy. Never. Ever. Ever. He's made a living making set plays on very poor Dolphin teams -- a lot like Bess did. To the tune that Bess attracted a 4th round pick from Cleveland based on the rep of these stats. Hartline wouldn't even get a 4th from teams.

This isn't hating on him as a person, btw. Because he's well spoken and good guy. But the only team where Hartline starts at the 2 is gonna be a lower level offensive team -- unless, of course, that all other positions on the offense are beasting. Which ain't happenin here.

LD
p.s. Michael Irvin talked about a big playoff game where it was 3rd and 8 or so, and they called a play. They called Irvin's number and Aikman said "Book It," in the huddle -- and this is w. the other teams number 1 CB on him. The whole team knew that no single CB could guard Irvin on a play that he wanted. So they called the first down play in the huddle too. That's a playmaker. That's a WR who can create on his own. That's a WR that goes way beyond stats.
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Yea there are also "catch and shoot", "distributors", "junk yard dogs", "shot blockers" who earn big money in the NBA. Not every guy can "create their own" at the highest level. There are roles for every thing in every sport.

You then go on to use a Hall of Fame WR to set the bar for Hartline. Jeez. The guy is a good possession WR who is a good teammate and representation of the organization. Lets not over blow or diminish. Be fair.
 
Dolfan Dave said:
Yea there are also "catch and shoot", "distributors", "junk yard dogs", "shot blockers" who earn big money in the NBA. Not every guy can "create their own" at the highest level. There are roles for every thing in every sport.

You then go on to use a Hall of Fame WR to set the bar for Hartline. Jeez. The guy is a good possession WR who is a good teammate and representation of the organization. Lets not over blow or diminish. Be fair.
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I totally agree w. that bolded line. Hartline is all those things.

And I agree that there are those kinds of complementary role players in the high level of sports.

My problem is w. the implication that Hartline is somehow a threat, a playmaker, a go-to guy that should be targeted more in order for the offense to succeed at a high level. Those things are just delusional. It's like asking a career role player to suddenly become a playmaker. Won't happen. A thousand times won't happen w. Hartline at the number 2 spot at WR.

The team would be light years ahead to try another player who can do more of those things at the 2. Landry? Matthews? Not Gibson. imo, Hartline can outplay Gibson at the 2.

People talk as if our WR corps is talented and deep this year, also. That's also delusional. The only thing this WR corps is deep at is deep in possession WRs. That's it. One playmaker WR and a couple questions marks. Hartline though isn’t a question mark. He’s a known variable. Mid-level possession WR who’s suddenly very unsure handed, costing the team w. key drops.

Miami has a similar problem at TE. Sorely lacking. People do the same thing w. Clay that they do w. Hartline: think that he's something he's not. Clay is a slash HB/TE who can do several things decently, but not high level consistently. People get the impression that multiple abilities automatically creates mismatches -- it does not create mismatches IF the player re-assigned to you is not threatened by you -- say, if the mismatch causes LB coverage, can Clay dominate that w. great speed? Or, if the mismatch causes DB coverage, can Clay dominate that w. great physicality and catch radius? The answer to both is no. So many times this season Clay has had a chance to separate from LBs or make contested catches from DBs – but he’s been easily covered by LBs and DBs alike. With key drops, also. He's simply not big enough to seriously mismatch the one, and not nearly fast enough to mismatch the other. Role player, again -- pressed into 1st line starting duty by a cupboard bereft of talent, where high level draft picks were worse than darts on a dartboard.

Darts on a dartboard would hit on talent randomly more than Ireland hit on talent w. the top draft picks.

Feed that into a system year after year and you get the kind of system failure that Miami now experiences. And can't be turned around by one decent off-season and draft.

LD
 
Phinatic8u said:
The team also had over 100 LESS attempts than Miami did.

Showing stats doesn't equal a better core or not. Watch the games and stop going by stats on most of your stuff. Please.
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I post PFF, eyeball not stats, and they are no good. I post NFL stats, and they do not tell the story. So, what does? Your opinion? That of others?

Receivers get 700-800 snaps a year x 4 is around 3,000 snaps per team. You named a handful of teams, 15,000 snaps to watch, without Miami. How many did you are anyone, other than PFF, watch? IF you have a better way, I'm all eyes and ears.

By the way, PFF likes Tate and Baldwin better than any of our WR's from last year. :)
 
Irishfinfan1 said:
I understand what you are saying Sobe, statistically he has gained yards, but to me you put the ball in the hands of your playmakers, and unfortunately Hartline isn't one of them. He isn't of much use in the red zone, with ball in hand he more often than not falls to the ground before anyone touches him, he isn't someone a D is going to gameplan against, and so far this year his hands haven't been great. As a 3rd down option Gibson is probably better currently, I think someone between Gibson, Matthews and Landry would benefit us better as our number 2 and with the physicality between the three of them it causes the D more threats to deal with.
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I get what you are saying Irish. However, Hartline gives you around 15 yards a catch, and a lot of first downs. He has done it as a #1 WR, a #2 WR, and a #3 WR (rookie) for years. This is consistent production in the NFL, and not many do that.

Sure, we would like someone bigger, faster, and able to leap tall buildings but, that ain't gonna happen. I appreciate what he's done for our team, and believe others should do the same. He has been VERY FAR from a big problem for our O.
 
Wallace has been playing out of his mind for the last 11 quarters or so.

What was so impressive about that TD was not the fight and the effort, but just the awareness to get the ball over the goal line at that point. Just a tremendous play.
 
J. David Wannyheimer said:
Wallace has been playing out of his mind for the last 11 quarters or so.

What was so impressive about that TD was not the fight and the effort, but just the awareness to get the ball over the goal line at that point. Just a tremendous play.
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Yeah, who is that guy?
 
Southbeach 2 said:
Yeah, who is that guy?
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The guy who put on 10 pounds of muscle in the offseason and is leaving it all on the field. He's really impressed me this season.

I heard that Wallace had some personal things he was dealing with last season and his head wasn't on straight, and I don't know how true that is, but I'm really seeing a different player. Maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see?
 
Watching our WR rotation it is completely evident that the team didn't expect both Gibson to come back healthy and Matthews to come ready to play in preseason. Both those guys were too good to let go. I still think having so many guys contributing is a hindrance at times because guys who haven't been getting that many plays are being a bit inconsistent, but over 16 games the depth could prove invaluable. Anyone who remembers how much the offense struggled after Gibson and then Hartline got hurt should feel very comforted at there being little chance of a real drop-off if one of these guys gets hurt.
 
Matthews showed some stuff today... I hope that the staff trusts him more to take more snaps.

LD
 
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