Dolphins Ranked 25th in Passing Defense: Where will it be in 2009?

[Dolphan23]

I wanted to know with the secondary being replaced with the additions of Sean Smith, Vontae Davis, Eric Green and Gibril Wilson where do you all think our passing defense will be ranked in 2009?

I know Andre Goodman was a pretty solid player late in the year...but he did have a few miscues...like the first bomb Favre through to Cotchrey for a TD.

What does everyone think? I think we will be an improved unit and jump a few spots, but with this season going against the likes of Matt Ryan, Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger and yes Tom Brady it may be a little more difficult to show vast improvement from 2008.

 

[MiamiDolfan85]

I wanted to know with the secondary being replaced with the additions of Sean Smith, Vontae Davis, Eric Green and Gibril Wilson where do you all think our passing defense will be ranked in 2009?

I know Andre Goodman was a pretty solid player late in the year...but he did have a few miscues...like the first bomb Favre through to Cotchrey for a TD.

What does everyone think? I think we will be an improved unit and jump a few spots, but with this season going against the likes of Matt Ryan, Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger and yes Tom Brady it may be a little more difficult to show vast improvement from 2008.

16th-18th sounds about right.....you have to remember,as a young secondary,things will take time for us to gel....

 

[HawkDolphan]

Hopefully the improved pass rush we're expecting via JT, will also help cover some mistakes that might be made in the secondary.

 

[Dolphan23]

Most likely true...I think the results will be good...but not spectacular like we all would hope for :)

I think with Todd Bowles as the secondary coach our chances of going from good to exceptional jump much higher if we had a different coach..

 

[Dolphan23]

Hopefully the improved pass rush we're expecting via JT, will also help cover some mistakes that might be made in the secondary.

Good point HawkDolphan...I think that will definitely help out the secondary in a great deal...the next question will be if Jason Taylor can play at the same level as he did in 06 and 07? And what happens with Cameron Wake too.

 

[Chubby]

IF we can get it somwhere around the low to mid teens I think we are on the right track :)

 

[Pinkboy]

This just goes to show you how rankings can be skewed.. There are a lot of variables that go into such rankings.

But if you look at the players in the secondary last year, most of them played well for the most part.. Compare it to 2007 and it's not even close.. No matter how the rankings make them only "seem" closer than they really were (when you compare the pass D rankings of both seasons).

1) Andre Goodman played very well last year.. In fact, he had a career year at 29 years old.. Give credit to Todd Bowles in his 1st year as our secondary coach, and one of the best secondary coaches in the league... Just one year with Bowles and Goodman was rewarded with a big contract in free agency.

2) Will Allen was solid. The trifecta awarded him with a $16 Million extension.

3) Yeremiah Bell.. He was fantastic last season, and the clear leader of the secondary. And he too had a career year.. Again, rewarded with a good paying contract in the offseason..

4) Renaldo Hill. He is not naturally talented physically.. But boy he knows how to get to the right spot positionally.. He was positionally sound last season.. .. And again, you can thank Bowles' coaching for that.. You saw a big difference in the secondary after game 2 when Hill was inserted for Crocker.

if Bowles can work wonders for guys like Goodman and Hill, I just cannot wait to see what he will do with all the superior talent we added in the secondary-- namely Gibril Wilson, Sean Smith and Vontae Davis.. All are supremely talented than the 2 players we let go (Hill and Goodman).. More for Bowles to work with and to get the best out of.

With the added pass rush we brought in this offseason, along with much more physically talented players in the secondary, and the excellent coaching we have, I feel pretty good about our prospects this season, and in the future.

 

[DolfanDuBbZ~]

This just goes to show you how rankings can be skewed.. There are a lot of variables that go into such rankings.

But if you look at the players in the secondary last year, most of them played well for the most part.. Compare it to 2007 and it's not even close.. No matter how the rankings make them only "seem" closer than they really were (when you compare the pass D rankings of both seasons).

1) Andre Goodman played very well last year.. In fact, he had a career year at 29 years old.. Give credit to Todd Bowles in his 1st year as our secondary coach, and one of the best secondary coaches in the league... Just one year with Bowles and Goodman was rewarded with a big contract in free agency.

2) Will Allen was solid. The trifecta awarded him with a $16 Million extension.

3) Yeremiah Bell.. He was fantastic last season, and the clear leader of the secondary. And he too had a career year.. Again, rewarded with a good paying contract in the offseason..

4) Renaldo Hill. He is not naturally talented physically.. But boy he knows how to get to the right spot positionally.. He was positionally sound last season.. .. And again, you can thank Bowles' coaching for that.. You saw a big difference in the secondary after game 2 when Hill was inserted for Crocker.

if Bowles can work wonders for guys like Goodman and Hill, I just cannot wait to see what he will do with all the superior talent we added in the secondary-- namely Gibril Wilson, Sean Smith and Vontae Davis.. All are supremely talented than the 2 players we let go (Hill and Goodman).. More for Bowles to work with and to get the best out of.

With the added pass rush we brought in this offseason, along with much more physically talented players in the secondary, and the excellent coaching we have, I feel pretty good about our prospects this season, and in the future.

So I'm glad some here are already calling guys who have yet to put pads on, superior talent. While I think in 2-3 years we will be better able to judge said talent, I believe this year will have a learning curve to it.
I'm not gonna sit here and say that every pick this FO made this offseason will be next Surtain/Madison, or the next anything. If one of them can come in this season and be a avg. learning talent...then I think it will be a show of things to come, in the future.
As for pass D, we can't get much worse. I see a 22-28 ranking. Mainly because I see teams spreading MIA out, because I believe the run D will be pretty damn solid this year.

 

[Pinkboy]

..

So I'm glad some here are already calling guys who have yet to put pads on, superior talent. While I think in 2-3 years we will be better able to judge said talent, I believe this year will have a learning curve to it.
I'm not gonna sit here and say that every pick this FO made this offseason will be next Surtain/Madison, or the next anything. If one of them can come in this season and be a avg. learning talent...then I think it will be a show of things to come, in the future.
As for pass D, we can't get much worse. I see a 22-28 ranking. Mainly because I see teams spreading MIA out, because I believe the run D will be pretty damn solid this year.

Goodman was a career backup type player before last year. You cannot compare Goodman's physical talent to Davis and Smith.. Anyone with any astute knowledge of the game can clearly see that.

I'm not saying it may not take a little time for the rooks.. But there are a good number of corners that have come out and played well right off the bat.

And Gibril Wilson is a massive upgrade over Hill in talent at safety. Wilson is a real player.. Renaldo Hill was another career backup type, like Goodman.

The difference in player between Hill and Wilson, is the same difference between Hill And Yeremiah Bell.

Wilson is a lot better than Hill.. Just like Bell is a lot better and more talented than Hill.

 

[tay0365]

16th-18th sounds about right.....you have to remember,as a young secondary,things will take time for us to gel....

I was going to say 15-20, but 16-18 with Miami's improved Pass-rushing, and hopefully improved secondary sound right.

 

[foozool13]

Pass rush will be key to the secondary...Porter is GREAT through the first half of the season so I'm hoping by week 8 the newbies have gelled enough to make up for the the rest of the year.

 

[Dolphan23]

Good points...I think 16-18 is pretty reasonable. I don't think we'll rank anywhere between 22-28...we'll improve much more than that IMO...

 

[Sirspud]

I know that these words sometimes foreshadow bad things, but I can't see us being much worse. Goodman was the defense's only key loss and he always seemed like part of the problem. The kids at corner won't necessarily be lights out but they bring a certain degree of talent that Goodman just didn't have.

 

[Pinkboy]

Everything I said is basically true.. Todd Bowles has a lot more talent to work with.. Bowles is just an excellent secondary coach, even other coaches in his field tell us what a great secondary coach he is. I have no doubt in my mind that he will make the secondary into a good unit with that talent there.

If anyone here told us a year ago during training camp that Andre Goodman was more talented than a 1st round top 15 pick corner in any draft, they would have been called out to be totally senile... Please guys, you know it's true.. If anyone said that here they would have immediately been hanged and put under a gauntlet..... Because such an idea is so preposterous.

Please show me just one post by a Dolphin fan EVER that had Goodman thought of that highly when it comes to pure talent.. You will never find it, because it doesn't exist.

Vontae Davis wasn't picked in the top 15, but he was considered "ON TALENT alone" by many to be the best pure corner "talent wise" in the draft... And he was consistently in the top 15 everywhere you went during last year's college football season.

He dropped to 25th because of character concerns, it had nothing to do with his talent level.. Later, Jeff Ireland pretty much squelched those character concerns for the reasons he cited.. Those character concerns we read about were really overblown, and much to do about nothing... Even his college coach admitted as such, and admitted to how shocked he was to hear Davis had character concerns..

I was very high on Sean Smith before the draft.. A cornerback that tall, with the crazy wingspan of a guy who's 6 foot 8, who can move so fluidly as he does, is a very rare combination for a cornerback.. And then you combine his Wide Receiver ball skills.. WOW... That's an ultra rare talent.

I liked Sean Smith so much before the draft, I had him as our 1st round pick in my list of guys I wanted to take at that spot.. To get him in the 2nd round where we did, was total grand theft in the highest degree.

And Renaldo Hill will NEVER EVER be mentioned in the same breath as Gibril Wilson as far as talent is concerned when it comes to the safety position... Just like Hill couldn't possibly be named in the same breath as Yeremiah Bell when it comes to talent.. The two are not even close.

Gibril Wilson was the leader of that NY Giants secondary when they won the Super Bowl.. Just like Yeremiah Bell was the leader on our secondary last year.. NY Giants players after he left said how smart Wilson was, and what a great communicator he was.. Wilson was looked up to there as a leader during their Super Bowl run... And of course Wilson brings much more speed out there, is A lot faster than Hill, and is a much more bigger hitter than Hill.. Hill was just extremely weak when it came to tackling or being physical.. Hill was skinnier than Ted Ginn for crying out loud.

The Dolphins are far more talented in the secondary.. And I believe the young corners will have a smaller curve to develop because they have one of the very best secondary coaches in the business.. Their high talent level is not in question, when you compare it to the guys they replaced..

Whichever young corner starts opposite of Will Allen, will have much better help and much more of a pro communicator with Gibril Wilson there next to him instead of having to look at Renaldo freaking Hill.. That's also a good thing for a young corner in his development..

Both corners will have 2 excellent leaders at the safety positions..... There is nothing worse for a young developing player than to have crappy players playing next to him on the team.. Having two very good safeties on each side for both corner spots is very beneficial for those young corners, for a good number of reasons.

I would have been worried about the rookie corners if they had crappy players like Cameron Worrell and Crocker at safety next to them, and the bad defensive coaching of 2007.. But I am not worried about them with an excellent coach like Todd Bowles coaching the secondary, and with them playing next to two excellent communicators at safety, and playing with two very good safeties when it comes to talent level.

 

[Smith21]

i would like everyone to look at replays of the 08 season... and see who big plays where against.. they where usually against Jason Allen and Andre Goodman.. yes the second half of the year he played good, but to say andre goodman was a key loss is kind of silly, there is a reason Ireland didnt resign him look at our cap we have the money to give him what denver gave him..

but in all that i say we have a better pass Defense this year something around 15th.. because we will be running the ball alot trying to control the time of possesion