Dolphins Safeties Best In The NFL?

[damanref10]

I'm not asking you, or anyone, to be blinded by Mr Simpson (aka Homer). However, IF you watched Clemons 1,120 plays on D last year, you will find yourself to be wrong about him. That did not happen but, I'm sure you have seen a few.

Common sense will dictate that if Clemons had more tackles than Jones, while missing fewer tackles, that he can tackle. That is based on you thinking that Jones can tackle, which I believe you do.

Clemons gave up three plays of over 15 yards in his 1,120 snaps, and I am sure you saw those, everyone did, they were low lights. Then, there were the missed tackles, which I'm sure you saw, more low lights. Howsabout the other 1,100+ plays or, do they not matter?

The term of his contract, how much it was for, the play of the DL (which only had Wake), team turnovers, 20 yard completions, etc, has nothing to do with how Clemons payed last year, and you show nothing as to why anyone should change their mind. Give us something as to why he is not a good player.

Clemons reminds me somewhat of the S we had, who went to Denver (can't recall the name). Everyone complained about his lack of talent, plays, and turnovers. All he did was to be overly solid, and make the secondary better by his being the QB, and we did miss him when he was gone.

There are not many good, let alone VG safeties in the NFL, and they do not get paid a lot of money. Median average is around $600K, and average is $900K.

Can't we all just say that Clemons had a good year, hope he is even better this year, and move on?

Just going to harp on these two final points because I haven't had a chance to go through the Dolphin's film yet so I'm not going to make a judgement on Clemmons with just blank stats and no 1st hand film knowledge yet.

but I'm not really following your argument here. "there aren't a lot of good or very good safeties in the NFL" - false "they dont get paid a lot of money" - also false. but then because there arent a lot of good ones - having an "above average" player in a "not good" talent pool is something to be praising?

http://www.overthecap.com/top-player-salaries.php?Position=S

look at the average per year - there are plent of well compensated safeties - well ahead of Clemmons - and just because he is "above average" in compensation relative to the entire safety pool - a look at the the top talent compensation then the drop off to where clemmons is should indicate why the "hes above 600k" means squat.

And to the final point - can't we all say clemmons had a good year and move on is basically "why cant you all just agree with how I feel about him, because any other view point isnt worth discussing" ---- if that's not what you are trying to say, then i apologize in advance, but thats how it comes off.

Again, not disagreeing at whether he had a good year or not, I'm going to reserve my judgement until after I take a full look ... but in a relatively weak free agency for safeties in a passing league -- he came running with his tail between his legs with drew rosenhaus screaming at the top of his lungs how happy he was to be back with the dolphins for peanuts..... the rest of the league didnt want to sniff him.

 

[dolpns13]

I read somewhere they are moving him back to safety.. which is fine by me because he was horrible in the nickle last year.

and jimmy wilson manned the nickle/3rd corner last year so not sure why he was listed as the 3rd safety...

 

[hoops]

i don't think wilson was horrible in the nickle...but they did him no favors by telling him to bulk up to play safety and then making him plan b as nickle corner...too much weight lost some fluidity...

anyways do those salary #'s for safeties only reflect base salary like i think they do or do they take into account signing bonuses and guaranteed money etc prorated??? if they don't they're quite flawed...cause base salary year 3 lets say or more in a 5 year deal is gonna usually be dropping unless they're back loaded and it's not the same thing as clemons in his prime signing a 1 yr $2.75 million deal day 1 in free agency...not to mention all the guys playing out cheap rookie contracts like a resha jones for instance given where they were drafted round wise and the rookie cap...that money clemons got day 1 in free agency definitely tells you the leagues not all that warm and fuzzy about the guy...no other way around it...if he had options for more money he wouldn't have signed here day 1...not unless his agent is garbage

 

[dolpns13]

Seriously? Did you even watch any of the games? Clemons had the 6th most tackles of any SS in the league and 14th most of all defensive backs. He is not too much of a liability and definitely has no problem whatsoever tackling.

#1 in the league? Not by a long shot. Reshad Jones is a baller and Chris Clemons is a liabilty who can barely tackle.

 

[So Be]

Just going to harp on these two final points because I haven't had a chance to go through the Dolphin's film yet so I'm not going to make a judgement on Clemmons with just blank stats and no 1st hand film knowledge yet.

but I'm not really following your argument here. "there aren't a lot of good or very good safeties in the NFL" - false "they dont get paid a lot of money" - also false. but then because there arent a lot of good ones - having an "above average" player in a "not good" talent pool is something to be praising?

http://www.overthecap.com/top-player-salaries.php?Position=S

look at the average per year - there are plent of well compensated safeties - well ahead of Clemmons - and just because he is "above average" in compensation relative to the entire safety pool - a look at the the top talent compensation then the drop off to where clemmons is should indicate why the "hes above 600k" means squat.

And to the final point - can't we all say clemmons had a good year and move on is basically "why cant you all just agree with how I feel about him, because any other view point isnt worth discussing" ---- if that's not what you are trying to say, then i apologize in advance, but thats how it comes off.

Again, not disagreeing at whether he had a good year or not, I'm going to reserve my judgement until after I take a full look ... but in a relatively weak free agency for safeties in a passing league -- he came running with his tail between his legs with drew rosenhaus screaming at the top of his lungs how happy he was to be back with the dolphins for peanuts..... the rest of the league didnt want to sniff him.

Thanks for a VG post. On Jason's list, I would have to disagree on around 10 safeties getting paid well but, not VG at this point of their careers. JMO I do not base a player on his pay, just his play, and disputed that point from others.

As to your final point, many here have agreed that Clemons had a good year, not just me. Stats and PFF's eyeball tests back that up. I/we have discussed this a lot, and it is not my personal project to get some respect for Clemons. Hell, I wanted him cut last year, and expected Wilson to be our starting safety.

Perhaps I have overcompensated for being wrong but, So Be It. :)

 

[So Be]

i don't think wilson was horrible in the nickle...but they did him no favors by telling him to bulk up to play safety and then making him plan b as nickle corner...too much weight lost some fluidity...

anyways do those salary #'s for safeties only reflect base salary like i think they do or do they take into account signing bonuses and guaranteed money etc prorated??? if they don't they're quite flawed...cause base salary year 3 lets say or more in a 5 year deal is gonna usually be dropping unless they're back loaded and it's not the same thing as clemons in his prime signing a 1 yr $2.75 million deal day 1 in free agency...not to mention all the guys playing out cheap rookie contracts like a resha jones for instance given where they were drafted round wise and the rookie cap...that money clemons got day 1 in free agency definitely tells you the leagues not all that warm and fuzzy about the guy...no other way around it...if he had options for more money he wouldn't have signed here day 1...not unless his agent is garbage

Not true, Jason's numbers reflect everything.

 

[So Be]

Seriously? Did you even watch any of the games? Clemons had the 6th most tackles of any SS in the league and 14th most of all defensive backs. He is not too much of a liability and definitely has no problem whatsoever tackling.

D13, some remember Clemons from his fist few years when he did suck on tackling. He would go high, and was horrible. Last year, he was a whole lot different.

 

[hoops]

they reflect everything but they reflect one year cap hits or base salaries???

 

[dolpns13]

Youre funny bro. Comparing Clemons to one of the worst safties in the league in Gibril, then turing around and comparing him (in the negative) to one of the best in Brock. Lest I remind you Brock Marion went to 3 pro bowls (when the pro bowl actually meant something and was a real football game), was an all pro once and has 2 superbowl rings. He may be a HOF'er one day. There are alot of players who cant hold his jock.. Reshard Jones is one of the best safties in the league right now and he cant hold Brock Marions jock.

I bleed aqua and orange but I will not be blinded by homer-ism.

The truth is Chris Clemons is better than Gibirl Wilson, but he couldn't even carry Brock Marion's jock.

I wish he proves me wrong and he becomes the player you guys think. But there is a reason he signed a 1 year deal... he can be easily replaced.

 

[dolpns13]

I know. Thats the problem with alot of people. They see him stink in early years, then in their minds are biased against said player forever. Clemons is one of best tackling safties in the league. No chance anyone can dispute that.

D13, some remember Clemons from his fist few years when he did suck on tackling. He would go high, and was horrible. Last year, he was a whole lot different.

 

[dolpns13]

Wring.. If you watched the games last year you would understand that there is no bases for such a bad statement.

Chris Clemons became the most overrated player in the history of this team over the course of THIS off season - it's crazy. Last year no one gave a **** about this guy and all the sudden someone releases some stats that rank him as top 5 and EVERYONE on this message board all the sudden thinks he is underrated.
I don't remember a single person praising him last season because he didn't do much worthy of praise. It's funny that people say "you have to watch the game" but only start to defend him now after seeing some funky comparison stats. Did you see the stats on how many turnovers we created? Or the stats on how many turnovers our secondary created? How about the stats on most 20+ yard plays given up? Guess what, we rank in the bottom 8 (or worse) in all of those categories.

The guy is not terrible, he's mediocre. He plays overly conservative to make sure he doesn't get beat deep so instead he got beat underneath consistently... top it off, he does not make any big plays.

He has good north/ south speed and he is a good tackler but that is it. I'm not asking for his head, but he is definitely not elite and not even better than average. I hate to even dog the guy because if he is the worst player on our starting defense, then I am happy... but it's just alarming to see SO MANY fans on this guys jock.

 

[hoops]

he's definitely better than gibril wilson was but some of that was miamis fault for bringing in a second strong safety and asking him to play free...miami ran with 2 strong safeties then for some reason and we paid for it...wilsons range abd bad angles to the ball when asked to support vs the run was woeful though even in oakland...what they signed the guy for in the first place who knows...

clemons is much better than that...clemons just has terrible hips which get him in trouble when he's in space and he doesn't have much instincts vs the pass...but no doubt we could do a lot worse

 

[So Be]

they reflect everything but they reflect one year cap hits or base salaries???

They show what the cap hits and savings are for the team this year, and you can also look at what they will be for next year as well, as they have the changes which will take place.

 

[hoops]

They show what the cap hits and savings are for the team this year, and you can also look at what they will be for next year as well, as they have the changes which will take place.

ok but you do understand how a cap hit or one year contract salary is likely to look different on the books than a long term contract broken down on a yearly basis...

i don't see how a one year deal is the same thing when you look at a guys cap # or salary as a guy who's in the middle of a 5 year deal or something like that...i guess that's my point... if all the moneys in one year like clemons is with the one he just signed ie all in 2013 of course it's gonna look inflated next to the rest of the positions cap hits/salaries for the year

 

[So Be]

ok but you do understand how a cap hit or one year contract salary is likely to look different on the books than a long term contract broken down on a yearly basis...

i don't see how a one year deal is the same thing when you look at a guys cap # or salary as a guy who's in the middle of a 5 year deal or something like that...i guess that's my point... if all the moneys in one year like clemons is with the one he just signed ie all in 2013 of course it's gonna look inflated next to the rest of the positions cap hits/salaries for the year

In the NFL, most contracts are back loaded, with no guarantees. Teams can get rid of players with nothing to pay. If you look at the top paid safeties, there are some who are not close to being worth what they used to be, as you have posted, and can be cut for nothing.