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Draft: So what would YOU have done?

ckparrothead

ckparrothead

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http://sports.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft04/tracker/round?round=1

I'm just wondering since I was looking at ESPN's draft tracker...what would you guys have done had you been drafting for us?

I suggest going to ESPN and looking at the rounds. Here's what I say the rules are for this exercise: no trades except ones that Miami did in fact do, or you can choose NOT to do a particular trade if you want...and the other rule is you can't select someone that has already been selected, even if it was Miami who selected him by moving up.

I'm not trying to bring up another debate on whether or not Carey would have been available at pick #20. For now we assume he would NOT be, simply because he was chosen at pick #19. I also don't want to hear a bunch of "I'd trade down to pick #35 acquiring picks number #50 and #59 blah blah blah blah blah" No. You draft where we did draft, or where we would have drafted had we not traded. You don't draft where you think we COULD have traded.

So given the two rules, if you say you would not have moved up to #19, you get back our 4th round selection (#115), but you don't have the option of choosing Carey at #20.

Its pretty simple though. Look at our draft picks, and then look at the guys taken in between say, our #19 (or #20) pick and our next pick (#87...or #102 depending on whether you approve of that trade). Which of those guys would you have rather picked at #19 (or #20) and etc.

NO TRADING OGUNLEYE.

I'll even make it easy for you. Here's some players that would have been of interest.

At #19....Kenechi Udeze, Vince Wilfork, Vernon Carey, JP Losman, Marcus Tubbs, Ahmad Carroll, Chris Gamble, Jason Babin, Mike Jenkins, Rashaun Woods, Karlos Dansby, Chris Snee, Justin Smiley, Igor Olshansky, Teddy Lehman, and Devery Henderson.

At #20...same list except MINUS Vernon Carey.

At #87...Punter BJ Sander, DE Darrion Scott, S/CB Matt Ware, QB Matt Schaub, DE Tony Hargrove, DE Shaun Philips, WR Carlos Francis, C Alex Stepanovich, OLB Demorrio Williams.

At #102 (only if you decided to trade away #87)...CB Will Poole, DE Bo Schobel, WR Samie Parker, QB Luke McCown, DT Isaac Sopoaga, WR Jerricho Cotchery, OLB Kendyll Pope, S Will Allen, OT Nat Dorsey, DT Mathias Askew, WR Ernest Wilford, RB Mewelde Moore, OT Stacy Andrews, OT Adrian Jones, DE Dave Ball, WR Johnnie Morant, DT Rodney Leisle, DT Chad Lavalais, ILB Rod Davis, S Jason Shivers.

At #119 (only if you decided not to move up to pick #19)...WR Ernest Wilford, RB Mewelde Moore, OT Stacy Andrews, OT Adrian Jones, DE Dave Ball, WR Johnnie Morant, DT Rodney Leisle, DT Chad Lavalais, ILB Rod Davis, S Jason Shivers.

At #160 (only if you choose to move down from #87 to #102)...S Tony Bua, WR Drew Carter, WR PK Sam, ILB Robert Reynolds, C Nick Leckey, WR Triandos Luke, OT Kelly Butler.

At #174 (only if you decide to give up picks #186 and #219 to move up to #174)...C Rex Hadnot, OT Kirk Chambers, OT Bo Lacy, OT Marko Cavka, ILB Cody Spencer, QB Josh Harris, QB Jim Sorgi, QB Jeff Smoker, QB John Navarre, LB Darrell McClover, DT Eric Taylor, QB Cody Pickett, QB Casey Bramlet.

At #186 (if you decided NOT to move up for Rex Hadnot...)...QB Josh Harris, QB Jim Sorgi, QB Jeff Smoker, QB John Navarre, LB Darrell McClover, DT Eric Taylor, QB Cody Pickett, QB Casey Bramlet.

At #219 (if you didnt move up for Hadnot)...OT Tony Pape, LB Derrick Pope, QB Matt Mauck, DL Tommy Kelly, DE Bobby McCray, WR Derrick Abney, QB Bradlee Van Pelt, DE Isaac "Puddles" Hilton, OT Carlos Joseph.

At #221...all of the above

At #222...all of the above.


So here's an example...making all the trades that Miami did.

#19 G/T Vernon Carey
#102 WR Jerricho Cotchery
#160 C Nick Leckey
#174 QB Josh Harris
#221 OT Tony Pape
#222 DL Tommy Kelly

I believe thats a reasonable draft. Lets toss a monkey wrench, say we traded up for Vernon Carey at #19 but didn't trade back in the 3rd to 4th round, or trade up in the 6th round.

#19 G/T Vernon Carey
#87 OLB Demorrio Williams
#186 QB Jeff Smoker
#219 OT Tony Pape
#221 DE "Puddles" Hilton
#222 LB Derrick Pope



So, what would you have drafted, given the set of rules?
 
ckparrothead said:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft04/tracker/round?round=1

I'm just wondering since I was looking at ESPN's draft tracker...what would you guys have done had you been drafting for us?

I suggest going to ESPN and looking at the rounds. Here's what I say the rules are for this exercise: no trades except ones that Miami did in fact do, or you can choose NOT to do a particular trade if you want...and the other rule is you can't select someone that has already been selected, even if it was Miami who selected him by moving up.

I'm not trying to bring up another debate on whether or not Carey would have been available at pick #20. For now we assume he would NOT be, simply because he was chosen at pick #19. I also don't want to hear a bunch of "I'd trade down to pick #35 acquiring picks number #50 and #59 blah blah blah blah blah" No. You draft where we did draft, or where we would have drafted had we not traded. You don't draft where you think we COULD have traded.

So given the two rules, if you say you would not have moved up to #19, you get back our 4th round selection (#115), but you don't have the option of choosing Carey at #20.

Its pretty simple though. Look at our draft picks, and then look at the guys taken in between say, our #19 (or #20) pick and our next pick (#87...or #102 depending on whether you approve of that trade). Which of those guys would you have rather picked at #19 (or #20) and etc.

NO TRADING OGUNLEYE.

I'll even make it easy for you. Here's some players that would have been of interest.

At #19....Kenechi Udeze, Vince Wilfork, Vernon Carey, JP Losman, Marcus Tubbs, Ahmad Carroll, Chris Gamble, Jason Babin, Mike Jenkins, Rashaun Woods, Karlos Dansby, Chris Snee, Justin Smiley, Igor Olshansky, Teddy Lehman, and Devery Henderson.

At #20...same list except MINUS Vernon Carey.

At #87...Punter BJ Sander, DE Darrion Scott, S/CB Matt Ware, QB Matt Schaub, DE Tony Hargrove, DE Shaun Philips, WR Carlos Francis, C Alex Stepanovich, OLB Demorrio Williams.

At #102 (only if you decided to trade away #87)...CB Will Poole, DE Bo Schobel, WR Samie Parker, QB Luke McCown, DT Isaac Sopoaga, WR Jerricho Cotchery, OLB Kendyll Pope, S Will Allen, OT Nat Dorsey, DT Mathias Askew, WR Ernest Wilford, RB Mewelde Moore, OT Stacy Andrews, OT Adrian Jones, DE Dave Ball, WR Johnnie Morant, DT Rodney Leisle, DT Chad Lavalais, ILB Rod Davis, S Jason Shivers.

At #119 (only if you decided not to move up to pick #19)...WR Ernest Wilford, RB Mewelde Moore, OT Stacy Andrews, OT Adrian Jones, DE Dave Ball, WR Johnnie Morant, DT Rodney Leisle, DT Chad Lavalais, ILB Rod Davis, S Jason Shivers.

At #160 (only if you choose to move down from #87 to #102)...S Tony Bua, WR Drew Carter, WR PK Sam, ILB Robert Reynolds, C Nick Leckey, WR Triandos Luke, OT Kelly Butler.

At #174 (only if you decide to give up picks #186 and #219 to move up to #174)...C Rex Hadnot, OT Kirk Chambers, OT Bo Lacy, OT Marko Cavka, ILB Cody Spencer, QB Josh Harris, QB Jim Sorgi, QB Jeff Smoker, QB John Navarre, LB Darrell McClover, DT Eric Taylor, QB Cody Pickett, QB Casey Bramlet.

At #186 (if you decided NOT to move up for Rex Hadnot...)...QB Josh Harris, QB Jim Sorgi, QB Jeff Smoker, QB John Navarre, LB Darrell McClover, DT Eric Taylor, QB Cody Pickett, QB Casey Bramlet.

At #219 (if you didnt move up for Hadnot)...OT Tony Pape, LB Derrick Pope, QB Matt Mauck, DL Tommy Kelly, DE Bobby McCray, WR Derrick Abney, QB Bradlee Van Pelt, DE Isaac "Puddles" Hilton, OT Carlos Joseph.

At #221...all of the above

At #222...all of the above.


So here's an example...making all the trades that Miami did.

#19 G/T Vernon Carey
#102 WR Jerricho Cotchery
#160 C Nick Leckey
#174 QB Josh Harris
#221 OT Tony Pape
#222 DL Tommy Kelly

I believe thats a reasonable draft. Lets toss a monkey wrench, say we traded up for Vernon Carey at #19 but didn't trade back in the 3rd to 4th round, or trade up in the 6th round.

#19 G/T Vernon Carey
#87 OLB Demorrio Williams
#186 QB Jeff Smoker
#219 OT Tony Pape
#221 DE "Puddles" Hilton
#222 LB Derrick Pope



So, what would you have drafted, given the set of rules?
Click to expand...


I like the way you lined that up for us. It makes me feel even better about our draft seeing it that way.
 
Can't trade down? My scenario wouldn't work with Carey gone at #20, & there being no option of trading down.

Can't we trade down using the value chart at NflDraftBlitz.com if the points are EVEN or leaning THEIR way?
 
I don't know the players well enough to offer a worthwhile response, CK, but I will say it's a great contribution to set-up the question you're posing. Thanks for tossing it into the mix. Some day I'm gonna contribute something worthwhile. No, really... I am.;)
 
I won't do my whole list yet, but one thing I woulda done was keep our 3rd and take Matt Ware. I like Poole, but I think Ware would have been more valuable to us.
 
No because not everyone goes by the trade value chart and just because a trade matches up on the value chart it doesnt mean the other party is WILLING to do it. They might see your offer and say no thanks we see a guy that we really like and we think he'll be there....or no thanks we dont see anyone available at your pick that really gets us excited.
 
Cool Liquid that is one of the 3 players I'm positive Miami was tracking when they decided to move back from #87 to #102. I believe those three players were Ware, Demorrio Williams, and Will Poole. I believe this because Spielman said that when he traded back, there were 3 players he liked. Then he said that after the 1st day was over, there were 2 players he liked for our 4th rounder that were still available. That means one was drafted in the 3rd after BJ Sander. Then Spielman said that of the 3, the only one available at our 4th round pick was Will Poole, so the 2nd guy got drafted on day 2 before we picked. Matt Ware and Demorrio Williams fit the needs, and the selection order, as well as being guys we know Miami paid a little attention to.

So LIQUID your draft would look like so far...

#19 Vernon Carey
#87 Matt Ware
#186 _____________
#219 _____________
#221 _____________
#222 _____________
 
I'm game

#20 DT Vince Wilfork
#102 CB Will Poole
#119 OT Stacy Andrews
#160 S Tony Bua
#186 C Josh Sewell
#219 QB Matt Mauck
#221 OT Tony Pape
#222 LB Derrick Pope
 
Thats a nice Mock Draft there Jimmy. I like it...except for the gaping hole it leaves for us at OT...no offense, I'm just of the opinion that when we drafted Carey we filled a NEED not a luxury. Pape and Andrews both have good chances of being good tackles in the longrun, but not in the present. In the present we'd be screwed with St Clair because as of now, McIntosh won't be playing a down in the first game of the season.

Still, by getting Wilfork you get Bowens' eventual replacement. In Poole, you get Madison's eventual replacement (at least thats how I feel, I just feel he's that good). In Andrews and Pape, you got two guys that could dust off nicely and one of them start at RT within 2 years (likely Pape) and the other as your swing OT (Andrews)...either that or McIntosh gets healthy and takes ownership of the position.

Sewell could be a better pickup than Hadnot, I'm just not sold on a Center that ran a 5.6 in the 40 in Hadnot. I do not like Mauck...much at all. But hey to each his own.
 
I really like Mauck's intelligence, but I'm not entirely sold on taking him there either. I just have a sense that we need some movement at that #3 QB position. I have to think that Sage would have made a move up the chart if he were ever going to do so.

As to T, I really like what we had on the roster before the draft and the chance to go for one of the two veterans we had in for a visit for this year. Andrews is a straight to practice squad guy in my mind, so that would still leave us with the same number of linemen looking to make the team. I also believe I have gone on record as rejecting drafting for need, so I think you knew this was coming from me. :)
 
I'm tempted to go with a backup QB too...probably with our 6th round pick. Of course I'd be lying if I said I'd take Bua, Pape, or Pope...because I didn't pay as much attention to them prior to the draft...though I truly WOULD have taken Will Poole...so if I take Pape, Bua, or Pope its because I saw us take them and then read up on them and liked what I read.

But, if I truly were trying to think of what I would have done before we picked the guys we did, I probably would have taken Carey, Ware or Poole at #87, PK Sam or Nick Leckey at #160, Josh Harris or Cody Pickett at #186, then actually I MIGHT have taken Pape just because he was a highly rated OT still on the board at #219, and at #221 and #222 I probably would have just picked out of a friggin hat.
 
I think you have much the same trouble I have in filling this out based on what you just said. I admittedly don't have enough knowledge to do a 7 round draft, so that's why I chose to keep the guys in the later rounds I really liked. I do think I would have gone for players like Bua and Pope, though -- I really like the idea of addressing the special teams needs on day 2 in that manner, and I have well before our draft this year. I think Pape would also be inevitable based on the same logic you mention.
 
Bearing in mind that I have more info about some players now than I did at draft time, here are my picks:

#20 DT Vince Wilfork
#102 CB Will Poole
#119 OT Stacy Andrews
#160 S Tony Bua
#186 QB Cody Pickett
#219 OT Tony Pape
#221 LB Derrick Pope
#222 DL Tommy Kelly

I actually feel better about the Carey pick now than I did at draft time, but under the rules you set out, those are my picks.
 
1. Vince Wilfork
3. Matt Ware/ Will Poole
4. Kelly Butler
6. Etric Pruitt
7.Tony Pape
7. Isaac Hilton

This is all hindsight though. Since I know what teams have chosen. On draft day, if you want a player real bad, you trade up to secure him.

My draft picks are with NO TRADES. Original Miami picks going into the draft.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I would've been satisfied with this:

#19 G/T Vernon Carey
#102 CB Will Poole
#160 S Tony Bua
#174 DT Eric Taylor (only sub since I don't think we need another C)
#221 OT Tony Pape
#222 LB Derrick Pope

But after thinking it over, this would be very good if we didn't trade up to #19:

#20 DT Vince Wilfork ( for depth and to make sure the Pats don't get him)
#102 CB Will Poole
#119 OT Stacy Andrews
#160 S Tony Bua
#186 LB Darrell McClover
#219 OT Tony Pape
#221 WR Derrick Abney
#222 DE Bobby McCray
 
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