Dungy coaching and the NFL

[nopony]

At any rate, all I want is for you to take a minute and think about how horrible the things you are saying are. Honestly it would be less awful to call him a child molester.

I completely understand that if you don't have personal experience with things like this how different things look from outside and how impossible it is to pass judgement.

That's all.. and I honestly hope you never get experience with things like this. Just that you be slower to judge those that have to go through it.

That's all.

 

[The Bills Suck]

I'll just put out there what we know is more true than not:

-Coach Dungy spends alot of his team on football. We can deduce that. It's obvious.

-NFL coaches are known to 'abandon' their families. The Patriots are an example of this. Coach Charlie Weiss talking about the incredible amount of time their staff puts in work. That 'trend'.

-You can't be in two places at once, it's probably next to impossible to raise a kid who is already prone to being troubled and have him turn out well adjusted, and at the same time coach a highly successful nfl team.

-Suicide is used as a device to hurt the people u are closest to in life

-Tony was under alot of pressure this year. to finally getting over the patriots. the perfect season etc. seems like an easy time for someone to get lost in the shuffle insted of forcing someone into counselling as opposed to funding their own apartment.(the easier thing to do)

-his myspace.com page.

I'm fine with admitting I'm wrong, I just think no one will ever know for sure.

nopony, it's ok to disagree and I'm not trying to say mean things because it's the internet.

 

[cnc66]

I'll just put out there what we know is more true than not:

-Coach Dungy spends alot of his team on football. We can deduce that. It's obvious.

-NFL coaches are known to 'abandon' their families. The Patriots are an example of this. Coach Charlie Weiss talking about the incredible amount of time their staff puts in work. That 'trend'.

-You can't be in two places at once, it's probably next to impossible to raise a kid who is already prone to being troubled and have him turn out well adjusted, and at the same time coach a highly successful nfl team.

-Suicide is used as a device to hurt the people u are closest to in life

-Tony was under alot of pressure this year. to finally getting over the patriots. the perfect season etc. seems like an easy time for someone to get lost in the shuffle insted of forcing someone into counselling as opposed to funding their own apartment.(the easier thing to do)

-his myspace.com page.

I'm fine with admitting I'm wrong, I just think no one will ever know for sure.

nopony, it's ok to disagree and I'm not trying to say mean things because it's the internet.

you already have...terribly hateful things. It is despicable that you would attack this man you do not even know by blaming him for the death of his eighteen years old son. despicable.

 

[PressCoverage]

continuing to work is what many people turn to as a way to deal with their grief... in many walks of life, not just pro sports coaching... his perrogative, no doubt...

 

[The Bills Suck]

you already have...terribly hateful things. It is despicable that you would attack this man you do not even know by blaming him for the death of his eighteen years old son. despicable.

Fine then I'm a terrible, hateful, self righteouss monster. I can live with that.

I'm blaming him for not having anyone help his son more specifically. I know he's not superman where he can reverse time and prevent it. I just don't think it's that much of a stretch. I apoligize to people who've read this who experience these issues and deal with them in different ways. Truly, no harm meant, do your best.

 

[FinsNCanes]

I think it's really weak Tony Dungy continued on and is coaching today. The reason I think this is because it shows a complete lack of respect for life and death that NFL coaches seem to have.

Whether it's Ray Rhoades putting his health(family) in the back seat for football. Holmgren saying he would NOT visit, nor EVER speak Shaun Alexander in the hospital if he was injured on the play going for the touchdown record. That clearly illustrates the mind set of an NFL coach. They treat players like freakin animals, or property and not humans. Shaun wanted the record, for a game, Holmgren wants the win, for a game...if he's injured and cannot return that is paramount in terms of meaning. I know there's better and more examples of this.
QUOTE]

You can't be serious..

One..Dungy has a job to do. Two..it was a joke on Holmgrens part.

 

[Metal Panda]

I see Tony's neglect leading to his son taking his life. Did u see the kid's myspace.com page? I know he has no control in the matter but NFL coaches are expected to abandon their families with the amount of time they spend on it. You can call me whatever you want but I see that as a problem. If you're going to raise a family you need to balance out your time properly.

Arguably coaches' distance does have an effect on their children, and family, but arguably as well, the spouses of these coaches know and accept this when they agree to the marriage, so they are complicit in it.

Secondly, while it may have been a contributing factor, keep in mind Tony had his son with him at many Tampa Bay Bucs games when he was coach there. As someone who's studied and degreed in psychology, that reasoning alone is too weak to attribute solely as a reason for suicide. There had to be other underlying issues for James Dungy as well.

It seems pretty COLD to me. The amount of time Tony's spent coaching how is he raising the kid properly? The kid picks now to do this? When Tony's having the most success in his life? I think the kid was jealous of the affection and attention football got so he wanted to hurt his dad. The kid has his own apartment at age 18 and had minimal parental guidance. Do you just hate troubled kids or something? If they can't make it, screw em, leave em alone, nfl's more important?

The very thing that may have contributed to his son's confusion over life and hopelessness, Tony see's it as OK to use it to motivate his team and for the NFL to use it for more attention.

I think I'm done conversing with you. As if Tony, and not the ratings hungry media, had anything to do with the media frenzy on this, especially considering there were very few, if any, sound bites from Tony around the time this happened.

And if coaching causes parental distance which leads kids to suicide, how come more sons of coaches haven't killed themselves?

You are truly delusional if you believe Tony being away from his family a good portion of the season was the sole reason James killed himself. There had to have been underlying issues, maybe undiagnosed mental illness, to cause this. We know so little about the Dungy's home life I don't see that any of us are fit to comment. Namely you.

 

[Metal Panda]

I'm not insinuating a thing. How's he raising a kid and spending all that time coaching? If you have an 18y.o living on their own and they do that, I don't think it's that far of a stretch to call you a failure as a parent. Especially in this circumstance as there is no reason for it. Like Tony didn't KNOW his son...Like Tony didn't know his son needed HELP? Hell, he published it on the net to myspace he needed help, no one was listening though.

Insinuating that somebody living on their own at 18 killing themselves automatically makes one a failure as a parent is the most moronic thing I've ever heard. Parents have far less control than is perceived by the common person over their children's activities. They do have an influence over it, a large influence, but parents, even from childhood, are only roughly half of a child's environment, and the other half of the child's environment, which includes his peers at school, and his friends, and his enemies, arguably have just as much to do with it.

I was "living on my own" at age 18. It wasn't that bad. If James wanted to kill himself, something must have REALLY been eating at him deeply. And I don't accept, without further evidence, that it was merely that Tony was away coaching football.

 

[Metal Panda]

nopony, I'm not sure I'm 100% right so let me say that. I'm not as stubborn as to suggest that either of us KNOWS for sure whos right.

That's ridiculous back pedaling. Most everybody else in this thread is suggesting we truly do not know what the causes were.

You were really the only one who seemed to have any degree of certainty.

 

[Metal Panda]

I'll just put out there what we know is more true than not:

-Coach Dungy spends alot of his team on football. We can deduce that. It's obvious.

-NFL coaches are known to 'abandon' their families. The Patriots are an example of this. Coach Charlie Weiss talking about the incredible amount of time their staff puts in work. That 'trend'.

-You can't be in two places at once, it's probably next to impossible to raise a kid who is already prone to being troubled and have him turn out well adjusted, and at the same time coach a highly successful nfl team.

You know, by the time you're in high school, you're already seeing less and less of your parents anyway. During the week, in my senior year, I saw my parents less and less as the year wore on because of my increasing activities. Now I will admit that even saying this, that I probably saw them a lot more than Dungy saw his father, but I think you're using shortcut theories to this suicide.

-Suicide is used as a device to hurt the people u are closest to in life

That's one way of looking at it, but the claims that suicide is somebody sending a "message" is shortsighted because obviously to "send" this message, a person has to have such little regard for his own life and feel such intense pain that he does not mind not being able to live anymore. This goes beyond mere pettiness against loved ones.

Often times many suicide patients delay their suicides because of loved ones that they try to make their live work for.

-Tony was under alot of pressure this year. to finally getting over the patriots. the perfect season etc. seems like an easy time for someone to get lost in the shuffle insted of forcing someone into counselling as opposed to funding their own apartment.(the easier thing to do)

You sure didn't come off that way in your first post.

 

[The Bills Suck]

Aguably? So what say does his kid(with possible dormant mental problems)have being born to a father who won't be around enough?

I'm saying someone who's going to do something so drastic living alone at that age is irresponsible on Tony's part. He funded his apartment. He should have been in counselling or at least living with responsible people. I think Tony as being the man's father would be aware of this no matter how little time he spends with him.

Bringing you or me into this is useless..we don't share the same mental condition as Dungy's son so to suggest that because I lived at my own bachelor pad at age 18 or u lived at an off campus apt alone means nothing.

I agree with you that it's probably not the SOLE factor that lead to it...I'm trying to say he didn't get him help in time. When time was so crucial to Tony for football, and he still uses his time for football.

 

[Metal Panda]

Aguably? So what say does his kid(with possible dormant mental problems)have being born to a father who won't be around enough?

I'm saying someone who's going to do something so drastic living alone at that age is irresponsible on Tony's part. He funded his apartment. He should have been in counselling or at least living with responsible people. I think Tony as being the man's father would be aware of this no matter how little time he spends with him.

I have no idea where you live, but I'm sure you must be aware that 18 year olds living on their own (even without roommates) is not that much of a rarity in this day and age? You're putting way too much significance on it.

Anyway, my point is this--you have changed your tune throughout the thread. You first implied that Dungy was wrong to continue coaching and implied basically he was the reason his son killed himself, now you are backing off.

At least have a spine if you're going to take an extreme argument.

 

[The Bills Suck]

I don't know if I'm right or wrong, that's why I wanted to see what others thought.

I lol at you wanting me to have a spine. What do u expect, NO ONE agrees with me. Should I continue to be as confident in my thoughts when it seems I may be so incorrect? I have no problem saying I could easily be 100% wrong in this and I'm sorry if it was too offensive.

In response to the 18 y.o thing. It's a transition a normal kid should be able to survive. I view it as why isn't he living with the family? We know now he wasn't ready for that responsibilty, I think possibly if Tony had been more involved he would have seen this and got him help.

 

[Metal Panda]

It's not something that can always be detected.

There was a kid in my high school who just offed himself one day and stunned the entire school.

 

[The Bills Suck]

I know and if that was the case here I would feel like a total ____. So now I get why I catch all that I caught. It is warrented and I thank you all.

I would also just like to point out the a frequent absent father can wreak havoc on a young man's mind. I read Quincy Jones' biography and his son was pretty torn up over that. Who knows though, and not worth discussing. my bad.