Enough Negativity! Understand This Much About Our O-Line!

[rickyfan85]

This was actually a post i made via reply but then i thought about it and realized that it may deserve its own thread. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

Everyon needs to understand that nobody respects our receivers. We have not played a single game where the other team doesnt come out in a 8 man on first and 2nd downs. Thats why we've been passing so much and not running as much.

Denver's defensive scheme was to stuff the box with a heavy line and double ginn. Hence Camarillo had a big day because there was only one receiver on him and he had huge cushions all day.

If teams want to do that all season long, by all means go for it. Chad is a good enough quarterback to where that doesnt mess with him so much, and he can handle having a game on his shoulders, even though he tore a few rotator cuffs....just goes to show how fortunate we are.

Anyway, the line is not as big of an issue as you guys are making it out to be. Its got a ways to go, but they are YOUNG.

Carey - Gone through more coaching changes than michael jackson has had nose jobs. And besides, they always switch him around from one spot to another and thats what attributes to his "jack of all trades, master of none" status. He'll get better since he's at his natural position.

Ndukwe - If thats how you even spell his name. Yeah our starter Donald Thomas got injured so this guy was his backup. No surprise here people we didint have much depth at this position comming into the season anyway. I'm impressed by the fill in by Ndukwe, however.

Satele - I mean come on even on his bad days he's a pretty solid center. Considering its what, only his second year in the NFL? Give me a break people this guy is gonna blossom into a pro bowler. He'll shine by year 3.

Smiley - Solid pickup and he hasnt let me down, unlike wilford.

Long - He's a 23 year old future pro bowler who is learning and progressing at a very high pace. I dont know what more you could want.

 

[ADavieDolphin]

still not good enough...
atlanta has 3 undrafted rookies on their Oline, and a 3nd rounder...
they lead the league in rushing... and i dont see Matt Ryan getting sacked much....

Ndukwe has had 7 games to learn, and he played alot in training camp... he simply isnt good enough...
carey's been through changes but he's been RT since day one... and should be good there since he knows about every OL position... carey has been a liability in pass protection
satele is athletic, great run blocker... doesnt fumble snaps i like him alot.. but still gets owned by above average DT's..

i love our Left... but the run blocking has got to improve... if you cant move the ball effectively with ricky and ronnie... then theres a problem... and i cant blame it on ronnie cuz he knows how to find holes

 

[rickyfan85]

still not good enough...
atlanta has 3 undrafted rookies on their Oline, and a 3nd rounder...
they lead the league in rushing... and i dont see Matt Ryan getting sacked much....

Ndukwe has had 7 games to learn, and he played alot in training camp... he simply isnt good enough...
carey's been through changes but he's been RT since day one... and should be good there since he knows about every OL position... carey has been a liability in pass protection
satele is athletic, great run blocker... doesnt fumble snaps i like him alot.. but still gets owned by above average DT's..

i love our Left... but the run blocking has got to improve... if you cant move the ball effectively with ricky and ronnie... then theres a problem... and i cant blame it on ronnie cuz he knows how to find holes

You make a few good points but once again:

Ndukwe wasnt supposed to be a starter. Or even a legit backup because we just didint have much choice this offseason. Maybe if we would have kept Rex Hadnot he would have been a much better fill-in, but he wanted more money and a long term contract and the F.O. just didint think he was worth that much.


And your talking as if Ricky is in superstar form. Yeah he's a hell of a contributor but not the same "Ricky" that you want him to be. Sorry, but that much time F'ng around the world set him back in terms of what he could have been. I love the guy and i'm glad we have him its just not the beast that could let your team try and dictate a running game. Barry Sanders was that way, Williams could have been once upon a time. But thats over now.

And as far as the falcons go i honestly dont know whats going on there. I dont watch their games enough but i find it hard to imagine that they get the same defensive looks that we consistantly do.

 

[ADavieDolphin]

^^i know ndukwe wasnt supposed to be the starter.. but he is the starter.. i really liked donald thomas's offseason story.. but frankly, he didnt show me anything during the game about his run blocking... he showed me he was a tough beast to play the whole game with the injury but we didnt rush for diddly against the jets.

i know ricky isnt the same as old... hes still would have a 1000 yard season running for 10-15 teams as the number one back.. i got no problem with how ricky is running... i have a big problem with his ball security and how often he fumbles but the guy is doing a good job, he could be more patient like ronnie, finding the right hole.. but he is explosive...

no excuse for ndukwe, he is a starter... he spent the night with sparno after the cardinal loss, he's learned as much and more than donald thomas has this season beacuse of playing time...

i honestly dont know what our answer is at RG, its not ndukwe who will forever be a solid backup due to this season in miami so far... i dunno what he needs... 30 more pounds? 20 less pounds? more studying of playbook? new shoes? i dunno but i dont want to watch anymore DT's manhandle the guy

 

[rickyfan85]

^^i know ndukwe wasnt supposed to be the starter.. but he is the starter.. i really liked donald thomas's offseason story.. but frankly, he didnt show me anything during the game about his run blocking... he showed me he was a tough beast to play the whole game with the injury but we didnt rush for diddly against the jets.

i know ricky isnt the same as old... hes still would have a 1000 yard season running for 10-15 teams as the number one back.. i got no problem with how ricky is running... i have a big problem with his ball security and how often he fumbles but the guy is doing a good job, he could be more patient like ronnie, finding the right hole.. but he is explosive...

no excuse for ndukwe, he is a starter... he spent the night with sparno after the cardinal loss, he's learned as much and more than donald thomas has this season beacuse of playing time...

i honestly dont know what our answer is at RG, its not ndukwe who will forever be a solid backup due to this season in miami so far... i dunno what he needs... 30 more pounds? 20 less pounds? more studying of playbook? new shoes? i dunno but i dont want to watch anymore DT's manhandle the guy

Sorry bro that 1000 yard season for Ricky on 1/3rd-1/2 the NFL is a little too much, even for me. Maybe next season, if he can get back into shape. I'll agree that the benefit of his absence was that he wasnt taking hits. With that said i could see him being around here for another 3-4 years and performing well throughout those. However, i dont expect him to get to that 1000 yard form that your talking about until next season, if and only if he continues to work hard.

And secondly about Ndukwe i dont think that its fair to expect much more than what he's paid to do. Back up a 6th round rookie. Sorry but thats not saying much from the get go, and i dont think anyone in our F.O. see's him as anything but a backup, if that. It doesnt mean that he's not producing above the expectations i have for a player that backs up a 6th round rookie. Gettin my drift?

 

[Clipse]

Hmm, I haven't seen too many people criticizing our Offensive Line, when I have seen them criticizing, it was rightfully so, our O-Line has had a few bad games, with Baltimore being the worst, however you can't blame them there, Baltimore has one of the Best defenses, and in order to be a good line, you need to be tested, and that was a good test. However, I'll give this a try.

Vernon Carey- Has played pretty good this year. Better pass blocker than run blocker. Now that he has finally settled into 1 position, he might be worth keeping around. He's solid and I would like to resign him, but that all depends on his asking price.

Ndukwe- Of course we all know Donald Thomas was looking good, but then got injured and is now on IR. So Ndukwe took his spot. Ndukwe played fairly well his 1st game, but has been a disaster ever since. They then gave Evan Mathis the starting nod, and he too stunk it up. So now we will see Andy Alleman start this Sunday vs. Seattle. Hopefully Alleman plays well, so we will have a solid starter until we get Thomas back next year.

Samson Satele- What can I say, other than Overrated. Satele is very inconsistent. You just don't know which Satele is going to show up. I will give it to him on one thing though, he's a hell of a blocker when it comes to screens. We really need to do more screens, since this guy is just a beast at them, and has been since his rookie year. His pass blocking is good, however is run blocking is not very good.

Justin Smiley- Was one of the best Guards available in Free Agency this year, and he's living up to expectations. Easily our best lineman. Very good run blocker, very good pass blocker.

Jake Long- Has impressed me. Will be a pro bowl caliber Left Tackle for years.

 

[Phanatical]

One thing you didn't talk about too much is the RB's. Are they really that good? Williams has not looked very explosive to me and Ronnie is coming off that big knee surgery so perhaps the RB's (not being what they are supposed to be) is also having SOME effect on the running game??

 

[FinHopeful]

Everyon needs to understand that nobody respects our receivers. We have not played a single game where the other team doesnt come out in a 8 man on first and 2nd downs. Thats why we've been passing so much and not running as much.

The 8 men in the box is an excuse. You can still run the ball if you execute and maintain your blocks. Sparano thinks the execution is not good enough, and I agree with him.
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Denver's defensive scheme was to stuff the box with a heavy line and double ginn.

No. Denver ran a 4-3 because we have not succeeded to run against a 4-3 for the entire year. Our RG is not getting it done.
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If teams want to do that all season long, by all means go for it. Chad is a good enough quarterback to where that doesnt mess with him so much, and he can handle having a game on his shoulders, even though he tore a few rotator cuffs....just goes to show how fortunate we are.

Agreed. We are fortunate to have a QB of Chad P's caliber.
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Anyway, the line is not as big of an issue as you guys are making it out to be. Its got a ways to go, but they are YOUNG.

I agree that people are overreacting, but I believe that the offensive line is going to let us down over the next 8 games.
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[Rich]

"Long - He's a 23 year old future pro bowler who is learning and progressing at a very high pace. I dont know what more you could want."
-- How about 5 of him. I would like 5 Jake Longs on our O-Line. :) If it costs $50 million per year for these 5 players, then so be it.

 

[Rev Kev]

Hmm, I haven't seen too many people criticizing our Offensive Line, when I have seen them criticizing, it was rightfully so, our O-Line has had a few bad games, with Baltimore being the worst, however you can't blame them there, Baltimore has one of the Best defenses, and in order to be a good line, you need to be tested, and that was a good test. However, I'll give this a try.

Vernon Carey- Has played pretty good this year. Better pass blocker than run blocker. Now that he has finally settled into 1 position, he might be worth keeping around. He's solid and I would like to resign him, but that all depends on his asking price.

Ndukwe- Of course we all know Donald Thomas was looking good, but then got injured and is now on IR. So Ndukwe took his spot. Ndukwe played fairly well his 1st game, but has been a disaster ever since. They then gave Evan Mathis the starting nod, and he too stunk it up. So now we will see Andy Alleman start this Sunday vs. Seattle. Hopefully Alleman plays well, so we will have a solid starter until we get Thomas back next year.

Samson Satele- What can I say, other than Overrated. Satele is very inconsistent. You just don't know which Satele is going to show up. I will give it to him on one thing though, he's a hell of a blocker when it comes to screens. We really need to do more screens, since this guy is just a beast at them, and has been since his rookie year. His pass blocking is good, however is run blocking is not very good.

Justin Smiley- Was one of the best Guards available in Free Agency this year, and he's living up to expectations. Easily our best lineman. Very good run blocker, very good pass blocker.

Jake Long- Has impressed me. Will be a pro bowl caliber Left Tackle for years.

Our Oline as a whole is over-rated... Because they are inconsistent... BP and Ireland will address in post-season..., there are some promising players on this line... First freakin time in years I can say that...

 

[rickyfan85]

Our Oline as a whole is over-rated... Because they are inconsistent... BP and Ireland will address in post-season..., there are some promising players on this line... First freakin time in years I can say that...

Dude, how can our o-line be overrated if no one expected much off the bat? This is their first year to play together as a unit. Anyone who knows anything about football understands that the offensive line is the unit that requires the most chemistry and it somtimes takes years to develop.

True, its where everyone including ourselves thought would be our strength with the Smiley and Long signing, but thats just the left side. We had question marks over Brown until the Pats game and Williams wondering if his body would even be up to par. If you ask me, those question marks still kind of linger. Brown hasnt been carrying a full load and neither has Williams. We can argue that the lack of snaps during the game could mess up their rhythems, but frankly i dont think either one of them can handle a full load at this point in the season. Essentially i'm saying that neither of them are at 100%, maybe not even 90%. Which is good news because we 've managed to hang in there and they will only continue to get better.

But what most people are overlooking when i say "take it easy on the o-line" is that with all these factors taken into account (injuries, youth, coaching changes, lack of depth, position swapping) they still have to consistantly face 8 man fronts. Probably more consistantly than most teams.

So before people go around bashing our line or saying this is below average, keep in mind that some of us fans pay closer attention to details of football mechanics.

I EXPECT however, for teams to be slowly backing off when they realize that Pennington is showing up with the expectation that there are gonna be gaping holes in the defense. The man will shred teams all day, and thats where it has been pretty vital for us is the pass blocking that no one talks about. Yeah they've let a few sacks slip by but man they give Chad adequate time.

 

[djphinfan]

Dude, how can our o-line be overrated if no one expected much off the bat? This is their first year to play together as a unit. Anyone who knows anything about football understands that the offensive line is the unit that requires the most chemistry and it somtimes takes years to develop.

True, its where everyone including ourselves thought would be our strength with the Smiley and Long signing, but thats just the left side. We had question marks over Brown until the Pats game and Williams wondering if his body would even be up to par. If you ask me, those question marks still kind of linger. Brown hasnt been carrying a full load and neither has Williams. We can argue that the lack of snaps during the game could mess up their rhythems, but frankly i dont think either one of them can handle a full load at this point in the season. Essentially i'm saying that neither of them are at 100%, maybe not even 90%. Which is good news because we 've managed to hang in there and they will only continue to get better.

But what most people are overlooking when i say "take it easy on the o-line" is that with all these factors taken into account (injuries, youth, coaching changes, lack of depth, position swapping) they still have to consistantly face 8 man fronts. Probably more consistantly than most teams.

So before people go around bashing our line or saying this is below average, keep in mind that some of us fans pay closer attention to details of football mechanics.

I EXPECT however, for teams to be slowly backing off when they realize that Pennington is showing up with the expectation that there are gonna be gaping holes in the defense. The man will shred teams all day, and thats where it has been pretty vital for us is the pass blocking that no one talks about. Yeah they've let a few sacks slip by but man they give Chad adequate time.

i agree with you.. even though chad p is playing great and we are all grateful for it, it does'nt change the fact that defenses are cheating on routes and towards the L.O.S because of chads lack of arm strength.

Now to chads credit, he and the coaching staff have been innovative enough to cater and battle those weaknesses with chads strengths, which is his intelligence and accuracy. The man is playing good football and leading us to victories, we will suffer in the running game but, whatta gonna do, i'll take the victories over the style points.