Favre v. Pennington | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Favre v. Pennington

Phinsome

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I am sorry if this has been posted before, but I can't help myself. I also appologize in advance for the long post.

I've been reading and thinking (usually a mistake on my part) and I think they Jets may have signed Favre just to sell tickets, because looking at the logistics of the situation and the numbers over the past few seasons, Pennington seems to be less of a risk.

Lets start with 38 year old Brett. Last year he had NASTY receivers and did quite well. I'll give him that, but Crotcherty and Coles aren't Driver, Jennings and Jones and the YAC they created.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=112

Look at 2006 and 2005. He was an INT MACHINE! 2005 they had injuries, but Driver still had 1200 yards and he had the same TEs in Lee and Franks. In 2006, Favre improved, but still with the same 2007 guys, he was 18 and 18. Everyone thought he was gonna retire.

Okay, so in 2007 he finally gets in sync with his recievers. It took him 3 years to get on the same page. He doesn't have that kind of time in NY. That year, he gets some blocking and blows up. Good season. One good season out of the last 3. Prior to that he's averaging 30 TDs and and 20 INTS. Good TD numbers, but thats a lot of picks.

Great, so, we look at Penny's numbers. All arguments about his robot arm and durability aside (I'm guity as charged), the guy is 32 years old, not 38. He's got a lot of football left, even if it does entail holding Henne's clipboard in a year or two.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=2149

So, whenever Chad plays more than 4 games in a season, which is 5 out of his 8 years, he has a very high efficiency rating. I don't even want to go back and look at our QB efficiency ratings over the last 8 years, but I'd guess the average is somewhere in the mid to high 70s.

In those 5 relevant years, Chad is always above an 82 rating with a couple of stellar outings in 2002 and 2004. The TD numbers arent huge, but he was playing against the AFC East with a very consistent efficiency. Also, as I remember it, when the Jets beat us with Penny, it was because of Penny. That game last year where he runs in the TD, that was ALL Penny.

So, the point is, Penny is efficient and consistent when he was healthy which is the majority of the time, based on statistics. Yeah, he had some bad seasons, and yeah he missed some time, but he is healthy now, right?

Favre has been inconsistent over the past three seasons and hes 38! The guy has what, 1, 2 years left? Do you think he's gonna throw for 30 TDs when he's 39, 40?

Stepping back, from a global perspective, the only loser here was the Packers. Favre made them look pretty dumb. The Jets sold tickets when Brett was signed and the Fins sold tickets when Penny arrived. Makes me think that's why the Jets did it or perhaps that blinded them. I guess it was a win win for the Jets and us, but I have a feeling that we are gonna get a little more win out of the whole situation.

I have managed to make it through this entire meandering diatribe without exposing my burning hot contempt for all things related to the New Jersey Jets. Let me address that now. I hate the Jets. Ok, feel better now.

In a way, I have complemented their owners for making a smart business move. However, in the long run and in the win column overall, I think we won this round. Parcells pulled the trigger on Penny so fast, I was spinning.

Now lets win week one, then they'll really be angry!:up:
 
Wow i never really thought of that.
excellent post. You do have a point. Like when will favre finally show his age, and maybe the pack got rid of him right on time. Maybe the jets saw his previous numbers and went googly eyed, not realizing they had one of the best game managers at quarterback in the NFL (Penny)

Great Post. 5/5
 
The Jets were through with Penny with or without Favre. In 2004, Jet played lights against the Steelers in the playoffs after beating the Chargers on the road. Many fans blamed the loss on the Kicker, Mike Nugent. The truth is that the game wouldn't have come down to a field goal if Chad was able to generate more than 3 points.

That's right. Chad was only able to score 3 points, the rest of our scoring came from special teams and defensive points. Yes, he's a good game manager, but he cannot beat good defenses when it counts.

If the Dolphins signed Brett Favre, I would probably be looking for excuses that said he was washed up too, I understand this.

Bottom line on what Brett brings to the Jets... The teams we play will have to defend the whole field. No more 8 in the box. Also, he can get down field in a hurry if we need to. His presence on the team has had a tremendous effect on our players. Players tend to want to play harder when they're lead by a legend.

I'm done, you may now carry on with your Brett Favre is old and sucks thread.
 
Lets start with 38 year old Brett. Last year he had NASTY receivers and did quite well. I'll give him that, but Crotcherty and Coles aren't Driver, Jennings and Jones and the YAC they created.

YAC has alot to do w/ the QB and where he gets his WRs the ball. Coles and Cotch are every bit as good as those WRs, if not better.

Coles & Cotch 2006 & 2007:

310 recs, 3835 yards, 20 TDs

Driver & Jennings 2006 & 2007:

272-3895 yds, 25 TDs


The #s are similar w/ the differences being GB had a HOF QB to thrown them the football while the Jets had awful QB play in 2007 and an ok Chad in 2006.

Look at 2006 and 2005. He was an INT MACHINE!

He had the one bad INT year in '05, in '06 he had just 2 more INts than Chad despite throwing 128 more passes.


Great, so, we look at Penny's numbers. All arguments about his robot arm and durability aside (I'm guity as charged), the guy is 32 years old, not 38. He's got a lot of football left, even if it does entail holding Henne's clipboard in a year or two

Since his 1st shoulder surgery in 2004 Chad's #s are:

639-982, 6677 yds, 34 TDs, 34 INTs, 82 Rating

Pre shoulder surgery his #s were:

620-937, 7061 yds, 48 TDs, 21 INTs, 96 rating


Check team results pre and post(in games he started):

Jets W-L pre shoulder surgery: 18-11
Jets W-L post shoulder surgery: 14-18

PPG pre surgery: 21 PPG
PPG post surgery: 17 PPG

Times shut out pre surgery: 0
Times shut out post surgery: 2


He's not the same QB since he first injured his shoulder in 2004.
 
I'm not going to go out and say we got the better quarterback. I do think, however, that there's the distinct possibility that the Favre trade ends up being a big disappointment to Jets fans. I'm not going to pull out stats, but here's my perceptions on the goings on this summer. Jets fans, correct me if I'm wrong.

1. Favre, 38, took the offseason off, as he was not planning on playing this season. Yes, I know, he worked out with the high school team, but he missed much of training camp, and likely got out of football shape over the offseason. Something he had been known to do, with the exception of last summer, when he worked with a trainer the entire offseason. The difference in performance from the two previous seasons was obvious.

2. He will be learning an entirely new playbook this season with about three weeks to learn. I know, same with Chad, but I'm not comparing the two. Favre has a tendency to rely a little bit too much on his arm. This, combined with a lack of total understanding of the playbook, could lead to interceptions.

3. If he struggles early, which I believe he will, since he's likely not in optimum shape and will still be learning the playbook, he's going to fall back into his gunslinging ways, and a snowball effect is a possibility.

4. He's saying the right things now, but the impression I got was that Brett didn't really want to be a Jet. As great of a competitor as he is, his heart may not truly be in this endeavor. Not saying this because I'm a dolphins fan and he's a jet, but we've seen this offseason what Favre can act like if he's not happy. This is the least likely of these scenarios to play out, but its not impossible that he goes off the deep end again.

In the end, I see the 05/06 Favre as opposed to the '07 Favre, but then again, I'm just a dolphin fan, so what do I know.
 
Like many formerly competitive athletes on a steep downward spiral, one last burst of life before inevitably fading fast away!

309j3tu-1.jpg
 
The Jets were through with Penny with or without Favre. In 2004, Jet played lights against the Steelers in the playoffs after beating the Chargers on the road. Many fans blamed the loss on the Kicker, Mike Nugent. The truth is that the game wouldn't have come down to a field goal if Chad was able to generate more than 3 points.

That's right. Chad was only able to score 3 points, the rest of our scoring came from special teams and defensive points. Yes, he's a good game manager, but he cannot beat good defenses when it counts.

If the Dolphins signed Brett Favre, I would probably be looking for excuses that said he was washed up too, I understand this.

Bottom line on what Brett brings to the Jets... The teams we play will have to defend the whole field. No more 8 in the box. Also, he can get down field in a hurry if we need to. His presence on the team has had a tremendous effect on our players. Players tend to want to play harder when they're lead by a legend.

I'm done, you may now carry on with your Brett Favre is old and sucks thread.

Just a thought...didn't Favre lose the playoff game with a interception last season?
 
Actually unlike the Jets....the Dolphins DID get Pennington free....no costly loss of draft pick.

Another stupid Jets move....trading away the future, for a player in his past. :lol:

I'd rather give up a pick based on how much Favre plays and wins that give up 2 1st rounders for Ricky, 2nd rounders for Feeley and Daunte, 3rd rounder for Gordon, ....
 
I'd rather give up a pick based on how much Favre plays and wins that give up 2 1st rounders for Ricky, 2nd rounders for Feeley and Daunte, 3rd rounder for Gordon, ....

It's not unlike watching old Pam Anderson Baywatch videos, then seeing her briefly heavily made-up under dim camera lights and confirming that you still want CJ Parker

ohno-1.jpg

309j3tu-1.jpg
 
I'd rather give up a pick based on how much Favre plays and wins that give up 2 1st rounders for Ricky, 2nd rounders for Feeley and Daunte, 3rd rounder for Gordon, ....

I can't argue with those...but we aren't talking about those now are we. The Jets gave up a draft pick for a guy who will be 39 soon....retired and then changed his mind....who has the better deal....the Jets or the Dolphins? No one expects the Dolphins to do much this season...with Pennington that very well could change...but when you look at all the free agency high cost players the Jets picked up....will you be happy at 8-8? Your cap is screwed...thats a fact....the Dolphins have plenty of cap space...even with all the changes they have made.

If Pennington can stay healthy....he could be around for 3-4 years....can you say the same about Favre?
 
I can only imagine how giddy you guys would be had you traded for Favre. Much like w/ the Chad nonsesne you tell us Favre sucks and won't do anything but if you got him you'd tell us how great he still is.

Do me a favor and read the info I provided on page 1 of this thread about Chad post shoulder surgery and tell me what you think.
 
I can only imagine how giddy you guys would be had you traded for Favre. Much like w/ the Chad nonsesne you tell us Favre sucks and won't do anything but if you got him you'd tell us how great he still is.

Do me a favor and read the info I provided on page 1 of this thread about Chad post shoulder surgery and tell me what you think.

The difference is the Dolphins never wanted Favre!
 
I can only imagine how giddy you guys would be had you traded for Favre. Much like w/ the Chad nonsesne you tell us Favre sucks and won't do anything but if you got him you'd tell us how great he still is.

Do me a favor and read the info I provided on page 1 of this thread about Chad post shoulder surgery and tell me what you think.

sorry to administer a dose of reality, but when approached by his agent, The Tuna didn't think twice before telling him "thanks but no thanks, move on down the road" Further, if you go back to when the drama queen started his anal, err annual "beg me to come back" revival, there were proportionately few here who were guzzling your tasty purple koolaid.

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