For Brandon Marshall Fans

[ckparrothead]

I know there are a few in here. Marshall was originally snubbed from the Combine invitations but I have now confirmed that has been invited to the Combine after his stellar Hula Bowl performances in both the practices and the game itself.

He was unanimously labeled the most dominant player at the Hula Bowl by scouts in attendence.

For those caught up in the insult...don't be....there's actually a lot of guys who were surprisingly left off the invitations, including Barrick Nealy...who has now also been invited late.

So we WILL get to see some official measurements and stats for Marshall, and I think that's pretty cool.

 

[Itsdahumidity]

I hope we draft him.

 

[ckparrothead]

I certainly wouldn't mind if we did. He and Marques Colston are a bit freakish IMO.

 

[Nappy Roots]

I certainly wouldn't mind if we did. He and Marques Colston are a bit freakish IMO.

:yes:

the exact type of WR i believe we need to.

 

[ckparrothead]

:yes:

the exact type of WR i believe we need to.

If we're interested in David Givens as a free agent, might as well save the money and go after Colston or Marshall.

 

[Bellson]

If we're interested in David Givens as a free agent, might as well save the money and go after Colston or Marshall.

couldn't agree with you more. Marshall is a beast... definitely has NFL talent.

 

[Finsfan79]

marshall is a nice 2nd to 3rd round pick

 

[ckparrothead]

I don't think he'll sneak into the 2nd round unless he really surprises people the way he runs in Indy. At best I see him sneaking into the 3rd round, but even that could be a stretch.

The reason is that he is expected to run about a 4.6 or so in the 40. That's not a good time. Even if he runs better than that, just watching the film you can see he does not have deep speed. He's got deep hands, and great body control, so that makes him a big play threat, but nobody is ever going to accuse him of being able to sneak behind a corner and safety in a cover two with his speed. I think he'll be good on slants, good over the middle on crossing routes, good on corner routes, good on the skinny post, good on the fade (but the defense will be expecting it), and when you get him singled up on a corner or safety you can just loft it up and he'd have a pretty good chance of coming down with a deep one. IMO, he's also going to be pretty good at finding the holes between zones, because of his experience playing defense.

And I'm kind of tired of the cliche about how Jerry Rice and Anquan Boldin have 4.55 or 4.6 speed, so please don't bring it up. Brandon Marshall does not have their second gear. He's got a second gear, but it isn't theirs. They don't have Brandon Marshall's size, though.

 

[Itsdahumidity]

I don't think he'll sneak into the 2nd round unless he really surprises people the way he runs in Indy. At best I see him sneaking into the 3rd round, but even that could be a stretch.

The reason is that he is expected to run about a 4.6 or so in the 40. That's not a good time. Even if he runs better than that, just watching the film you can see he does not have deep speed. He's got deep hands, and great body control, so that makes him a big play threat, but nobody is ever going to accuse him of being able to sneak behind a corner and safety in a cover two with his speed. I think he'll be good on slants, good over the middle on crossing routes, good on corner routes, good on the skinny post, good on the fade (but the defense will be expecting it), and when you get him singled up on a corner or safety you can just loft it up and he'd have a pretty good chance of coming down with a deep one. IMO, he's also going to be pretty good at finding the holes between zones, because of his experience playing defense.

And I'm kind of tired of the cliche about how Jerry Rice and Anquan Boldin have 4.55 or 4.6 speed, so please don't bring it up. Brandon Marshall does not have their second gear. He's got a second gear, but it isn't theirs. They don't have Brandon Marshall's size, though.

ck I heard that he wasn't a long strider and it was evident while watching the all-star gm. This is rare for someone his size so maybe he'll play faster than his 40 time. Anyway do you know how much he played DB as well? Was it for 1 game, several or a full yr?

 

[ckparrothead]

He's not a long strider, you're right, but you can see that he doesn't separate deep either. The vision that is running through my head, as I'm writing this, is a play against CB Antwan Allen, a smallish corner from Kirk Ferentz' team Iowa. Marshall gets into his route very fast and shows the good hips to fake (the beginning of the route, kind of looks like a 'chop dance' to me because WRs always chop their hands and stutter step to fake their directio), and you could see him start to separate from the corner right around the intermediate area, but then as he goes deep and toward the sidelines, the lack of top line speed allows the corner to catch up with him. On this play in particular, Betts had rolled out to the sidelines, and instead of coming back to Betts, Marshall waived his arm up in the air signifying he's going a bit deeper, because the corner sat in that zone with his eyes fixed on Betts. Betts launched, the corner ran up under Marshall, but the ball was in his hands before he could do anything to him.

I found that to be a good example of what you expect from Marshall. This is why I think he'll be good on skinny posts, slants, corners, crossing routes, and fades, instead of typical double move or straight up fly or vertical routes...because his top line speed is not going to be a source of separation for him. His intermediate area speed, hips, and second gear are going to be what he relies on to get open in man coverage, and he will rely on his hands, focus, and body control to bring the ball in when he's challenged. In the zone, he seems to have a real natural feel for getting between the holes in the zones.

And he played almost the entire year at safety in 2004. I believe he played like 9 games there, and became their leading tackler because he's such a good athlete. He clearly used that experience to work in his favor, and says it gave him fresh perspective on how to hurt defenses from the offensive side of things.

I would pencil the guy in as a tight end except he's got the body and the body language of a receiver. I don't know that he'd be able to gain weight and become an adequate blocker. I think Marques Colston is closer to being a possible TE convert than Marshall, even though his top line speed is better than Marshall's.

 

[Itsdahumidity]

He's not a long strider, you're right, but you can see that he doesn't separate deep either. The vision that is running through my head, as I'm writing this, is a play against CB Antwan Allen, a smallish corner from Kirk Ferentz' team Iowa. Marshall gets into his route very fast and shows the good hips to fake (the beginning of the route, kind of looks like a 'chop dance' to me because WRs always chop their hands and stutter step to fake their directio), and you could see him start to separate from the corner right around the intermediate area, but then as he goes deep and toward the sidelines, the lack of top line speed allows the corner to catch up with him. On this play in particular, Betts had rolled out to the sidelines, and instead of coming back to Betts, Marshall waived his arm up in the air signifying he's going a bit deeper, because the corner sat in that zone with his eyes fixed on Betts. Betts launched, the corner ran up under Marshall, but the ball was in his hands before he could do anything to him.

I found that to be a good example of what you expect from Marshall. This is why I think he'll be good on skinny posts, slants, corners, crossing routes, and fades, instead of typical double move or straight up fly or vertical routes...because his top line speed is not going to be a source of separation for him. His intermediate area speed, hips, and second gear are going to be what he relies on to get open in man coverage, and he will rely on his hands, focus, and body control to bring the ball in when he's challenged. In the zone, he seems to have a real natural feel for getting between the holes in the zones.

And he played almost the entire year at safety in 2004. I believe he played like 9 games there, and became their leading tackler because he's such a good athlete. He clearly used that experience to work in his favor, and says it gave him fresh perspective on how to hurt defenses from the offensive side of things.

I would pencil the guy in as a tight end except he's got the body and the body language of a receiver. I don't know that he'd be able to gain weight and become an adequate blocker. I think Marques Colston is closer to being a possible TE convert than Marshall, even though his top line speed is better than Marshall's.

:up: gotcha.

Do you think he has the hip flexibility to play safety at the next level? Or what about nickel DB who would play closer to the LOS?

 

[ckparrothead]

I definitely don't see him being a corner. He could be a safety but why move him back to D when he could be a good wide receiver? We know he was the leading tackler on UCF but that doesnt mean he was really good at playing safety...just that UCF's defense was bad in 2004.

 

[my 2 cents]

Marshall is a fast in and out of his cuts as anyone coming out this year. His straight line speed may be average but he is NOT a plodder IMO. Agree totally with you, his "football" speed will be better than his times....

ck I heard that he wasn't a long strider and it was evident while watching the all-star gm. This is rare for someone his size so maybe he'll play faster than his 40 time. Anyway do you know how much he played DB as well? Was it for 1 game, several or a full yr?

 

[FinNasty]

ck I heard that he wasn't a long strider and it was evident while watching the all-star gm. This is rare for someone his size so maybe he'll play faster than his 40 time. Anyway do you know how much he played DB as well? Was it for 1 game, several or a full yr?

He played saftey for his junior year. It was kind of like a "Troy Brown" type situation... both of our WRs were forced to play DB last year due to injuries... Marshall played saftey and Mike Walker played CB...

And he is a short strider... and makes up for his 40 with his quickness in & out of his cuts and with his route running...

 

[ckparrothead]

I shy away from using terms like "football speed" and "making up for his 40" because those are faux terms to me. There's no real difference between football speed and speed, IMO. Using the term "football speed" is like tossing your hands in the air in frustration and saying you can't explain why the guy does what he does.

The reality is that his short stride and hips make him good with fakes and probably about as fast as most WRs in the 10 yard area...but then where the other guys toss on the afterburners he doesn't have any to toss on.

You can't make up for having a slow 40 time. You just do what you're good at doing. Anquan Boldin, well first off when he's healthy he doesn't run the same 40 as he did before the draft, and second off he does what he does best, break tackles and play with a great 2nd gear. He doesn't make up for his slow 40 time, he still can't consistently separate deep or anything, he just works around it.