For discussion..QB, team, system. | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

For discussion..QB, team, system.

MDFINFAN

MDFINFAN

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I'm watching QB challenge, again..man I'm bored. Anyway they have Marino, Elway, Boomer, Kosar, and Simms sitting and talking about whether you have to be a top pick to be a good qb and win a super bowl..and their answer is no. Bottom line they said You have to have a supporting cast, good system, and a chance. Of course the Steve Young from tampa to SF was pointed out as a part of their argument as we've done. So if that's the case..if our team's OL is improved, our Running game improves, and a proven scheme with good receivers, will that translate to better QB play. Listening to them, yes, but a lot of you guys don't seem to agree based on the argurements about AJ. Who's right you guys or them..please explain..and guys no one liners..let's really talk this out.
 
I've always believed that if you surround a below average to average QB with the right players/system you can turn him into a good QB. I feel Kurt Warner is the best example of this. Then there are QBs like Marino, Farve, Elway who make all the other players around them better. Most don't fall into that category though, once put into the NFL.
 
I believe a good O-Line, schemes, and running game could translate to better QB play.

Now last year, our O-line was, needless to say, in desperate need of help, and our running game, which only produced over 500 yards, was pretty much non-existant. Now I'm not going to say that is the reason A.J. Feeley wasn't doing so well (we have this season will prove or disprove that). But if the O-line was better, and if we did had at least a running game that was cause of concern to defense last season, we wouldn't of been a 4-12 team.







Though with Wannstedt, we would of been only just a little bit better.
 
i agree with everything above. esp. about Warner and schemes.

the basis idea is that you limit their weaknesses and accent their strengths. that team was absolutely perfect for warner. he did three things well, he was accurate, a strong arm and had touch. and he threw to recievers that were faster than anyone that covered them and ran precise routes. he also played with prob. the best pass catchin RB of all time, at least his generation. Faulk was literally unstoppable for 3-4 years

the whole offense was based on timing and he basically did the same thing in the arena league.

the rams style didnt expose his weakness: toughness, durability, leadership.

so basically, aside from pure physical skill, its gotta be the right guy in the in the right situation
 
Well let's look at this logically.

Trent Dilfer
Brad Johnson

Not great QB'S

Tom Brady- He's not a top pick nor is he a franchise QB. However, the guy is mr clutch and he has a nice supporting cast.

Elway didnt get his SB till Terell Davis was a 2000 yard rusher
Marino never got a SB.

Manning is still searching for a ring.

Some posters are just naive when it comes to the QB position. The QB gets too much blame and credit.

People will always say that all Marino needed was a RB. Yet they don't factor in that he had an O-line, WR'S and a decent defense. The only reason I mention this is because Feeley had a collapsing defense, no O-line and no RB yet they wanna throw him to the curve.

If what u needed was a top QB to be successful then Manning and Marino would have a bunch of rings.

But the fact is simple. You need to surround your QB with talent.

Would Brady be as successful without his defensE or his Oline?
Will Culpepper be as successful without Moss?
Where would Peyton be without Marvin and James?
Would Dilfer had won that SB without Lewis and CREW?

All those answers are simple. They are all no.


You need talent around your QB more then you need a top QB.
 
I just think its rediculous how people can look at what A.J. Feeley did last year and say "thats who he is". Don't these people, especially the Dolphins fans understand that this team had no running game, no OL, a bad offensive system, and bad coaching last year? How can anyone say "I've seen enough of A.J. Feeley, kick him to the curb" based on what surrounded him last year. Yes you need to have the tools to be a good NFL QB, but your sorriunding cast has just as much to do with it. Alls im saying to these people is to give A.J. Feeley a fair chance to show his talent before you judge him and say hes worthless.
 
Maynard said:
i agree with everything above. esp. about Warner and schemes.

the basis idea is that you limit their weaknesses and accent their strengths. that team was absolutely perfect for warner. he did three things well, he was accurate, a strong arm and had touch. and he threw to recievers that were faster than anyone that covered them and ran precise routes. he also played with prob. the best pass catchin RB of all time, at least his generation. Faulk was literally unstoppable for 3-4 years

the whole offense was based on timing and he basically did the same thing in the arena league.

the rams style didnt expose his weakness: toughness, durability, leadership.

so basically, aside from pure physical skill, its gotta be the right guy in the in the right situation
Click to expand...

I think Warner is very tough, fairly durable and a strong leader.......wait...we are talking about Brenda Warner arent we? :lol:
 
MDFINFAN said:
I'm watching QB challenge, again..man I'm bored. Anyway they have Marino, Elway, Boomer, Kosar, and Simms sitting and talking about whether you have to be a top pick to be a good qb and win a super bowl..and their answer is no. Bottom line they said You have to have a supporting cast, good system, and a chance. Of course the Steve Young from tampa to SF was pointed out as a part of their argument as we've done. So if that's the case..if our team's OL is improved, our Running game improves, and a proven scheme with good receivers, will that translate to better QB play. Listening to them, yes, but a lot of you guys don't seem to agree based on the argurements about AJ. Who's right you guys or them..please explain..and guys no one liners..let's really talk this out.
Click to expand...

Yes, theres no question a better supporting cast can make a mediocre QB look better, just as an average player at any position can look better with the right support around him.

Does that mean it will be good enough? No.

We obviously won't know until it plays out.

Hopefully AJ will blossom this year, but its possible that even with an improved team around him that he will continue to make too many mistakes.......we'll find out soon enough.
 
welderpat said:
:yeahthat:


We were winning 10-11 games a year with Fiedler we can do a lot better with Feeley and coaching.
Excelent post Gryphonk
Click to expand...

Thanks. I think Fiedler is an excellent example. We had 2 straight 11-5 seasons with Fiedler playing solid. Then we switch OC'S and go to a conservative approach and do nothing but run and all of a sudden our offense stinks, Fiedler becomes a liability etc....

It's a combination of scheme and talent and a good OC (WHICH Turner proved he wasn't) who utilizes his QB'S strengths and doesn't try to stubbornly implement his own methods that don't work with the cast he has.
 
GRYPHONK said:
Thanks. I think Fiedler is an excellent example. We had 2 straight 11-5 seasons with Fiedler playing solid. Then we switch OC'S and go to a conservative approach and do nothing but run and all of a sudden our offense stinks, Fiedler becomes a liability etc....

It's a combination of scheme and talent and a good OC (WHICH Turner proved he wasn't) who utilizes his QB'S strengths and doesn't try to stubbornly implement his own methods that don't work with the cast he has.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if you have a defense and running game good enough to carry you to 11-5 records if you get slaughtered once you reach the postseason because your quarterback and passing game can't attack the whole field.

Fiedler was a great example of a QB whose skills were inadequate for this league.
 
MDFINFAN said:
I'm watching QB challenge, again..man I'm bored. Anyway they have Marino, Elway, Boomer, Kosar, and Simms sitting and talking about whether you have to be a top pick to be a good qb and win a super bowl..and their answer is no. Bottom line they said You have to have a supporting cast, good system, and a chance. Of course the Steve Young from tampa to SF was pointed out as a part of their argument as we've done. So if that's the case..if our team's OL is improved, our Running game improves, and a proven scheme with good receivers, will that translate to better QB play. Listening to them, yes, but a lot of you guys don't seem to agree based on the argurements about AJ. Who's right you guys or them..please explain..and guys no one liners..let's really talk this out.
Click to expand...

You missed one of their very important points............ One of them said NO you don't have to be a top pick, you just hav to be a good football player, that says it all....... Some of these top picks just aren't that great
 
Fiedler was a great example of a QB whose skills were inadequate for this league.
Click to expand...

no his skills were fine for this league... maybe a bit inaqurate but if he was put in the right system that would complement him he would have excelled. But Wanddstadt (however you spell it) didnt know what he was doing and couln't complment fiedler.
 
soccerphinsfan7 said:
no his skills were fine for this league... maybe a bit inaqurate but if he was put in the right system that would complement him he would have excelled. But Wanddstadt (however you spell it) didnt know what he was doing and couln't complment fiedler.
Click to expand...

1000 yard rushers in Lamar Smith and Ricky Williams......Chris Chambers and Randy McMichael.....no Fiedler had plenty of support, what he didn't have was enough talent to excell.
 
GRYPHONK said:
Well let's look at this logically.

Trent Dilfer
Brad Johnson

Not great QB'S

Tom Brady- He's not a top pick nor is he a franchise QB. However, the guy is mr clutch and he has a nice supporting cast.

Elway didnt get his SB till Terell Davis was a 2000 yard rusher
Marino never got a SB.

Manning is still searching for a ring.

Some posters are just naive when it comes to the QB position. The QB gets too much blame and credit.

People will always say that all Marino needed was a RB. Yet they don't factor in that he had an O-line, WR'S and a decent defense. The only reason I mention this is because Feeley had a collapsing defense, no O-line and no RB yet they wanna throw him to the curve.

If what u needed was a top QB to be successful then Manning and Marino would have a bunch of rings.

But the fact is simple. You need to surround your QB with talent.

Would Brady be as successful without his defensE or his Oline?
Will Culpepper be as successful without Moss?
Where would Peyton be without Marvin and James?
Would Dilfer had won that SB without Lewis and CREW?

All those answers are simple. They are all no.


You need talent around your QB more then you need a top QB.
Click to expand...

I agree, but that doesn't mean the qb position is not important. In other words, if a top qb prospect had been available at #2 this year, it would not have been wrong to take him, whether we think AJ deserves a legitimate chance or not. Remember, AJ was not highly drafted and came from another team's bench. That's not to say he can't succeed, but it's never wrong to try to upgrade a position, especially qb.
 
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